Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start

Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (Full Version)

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patina -> Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 6:28:16 AM)
This thread touches upon the one about lying but goes off in a different venue. I will give a scenerio instead of a question at the start. A sub is talking to a Dom both are checking each other out to be potential partners? The Dom says "You will always do as I say, no matter what. Correct?" The sub says hesiantly "y y ye yes." The Dom says "No matter what I ask you will do as I say correct?" The sub is still unsure but answers "yes" again the Dom recognizes the hesitazion and gets a little testy. The Dom says " Are you sure you want to be a sub?" "If you can't agree to always obey my every command you are a wannabe. Go play some where else." Unfortunatly this scenerio is an actual fact it happened to me 2 different times. my replies to these Doms were "If I am a wannabe sub you are a bullshit wannabe Master". then I either hung up the phone or closed down the chat room. I may have answered my own question in a way of how do you not lie to a Dom when he ask you are you going to always obey me. When you can not at the begning answer that truthfully. I feel Doms should realize that a sub needs time to develope trust and to demand complete obedience to a stranger is not fair. That sub has no idea as to what they are promising to obey too. What if they have a fear of heights and the Dom wants to suspend them in the air that won't work. For her/him to have said they would obey all things now makes them a liar. I do think the older more mature Doms know and understand this but unfortunatly the wannabe Dom and fakers are who latch on to us newbies and mess us up for a while then we figure it out and ignore them he he.[:'(]

OhReallyNow -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 6:32:40 AM)
quote: I may have answered my own question in a way of how do you not lie to a Dom when he ask you are you going to always obey me. When you can not at the begning answer that truthfully. this slave believes that this could have been answered truthfully. Her response would have been 'yes, as long as I reserve the right to speak up and back off if I feel what you are asking to be harmful or disrespectful to others" Master asked this slave the very same thing when we were first getting to know one another; he was extremely please with her answer because it showed not only the need to serve, but also common sense.

darkinshadows -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 6:36:02 AM)
My question would be - why are you already saying yes? - even hesitantly. If I was asked that, the answer would immediately be no - without hesitation. Anyone, not just a dominant type, should realise 'that a sub needs time to develope trust' - including the s - type themself and not even risk a hesitant 'yes'. If your hesitating, on any question - you need to step back and look at yourself. For you have to know and understand yourself before you can and should expect anything from anyone else. Peace and Rapture

mstrjx -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 6:36:36 AM)
I think what you would say would be along the lines of..... When I meet a master that I wish to submit to and feel comfortable with, then for that person I will obey his commands and desires. The implication is that the person you are speaking to/chatting with is not that person YET. And for those people putting on that sort of pressure, they aren't going to get to that point, which you already know. Jeff

Kiaban -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 6:49:32 AM)
There is very little you can say to a stranger along those lines without lying. Even if its someone you have been with for a long time you can only say "yes" [meaning that is your full and complete intention]. Any sub will "lapse" from time to time, it's simply not always stated " I will try" which seems much ........weaker in resolve. We could also clarify what constitutes a "lie" , to some it's a mistatement of fact, to others in an intention to deceive. In a long term relationship if you say " I will obey" without intention to deceive, when you do lapse , it's not a lie, it is simply missing the mark you have set for yourself. just my 2 cents Kiaban

MsIncognito -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 6:52:46 AM)
Umm, no, they don't force the sub to lie from the start. The sub, being insecure and needy for BDSM contact, chooses to lie in order to potentially have their needs met. Putting the responsibility for that on the dominant is just plain silly. The responsibility lies directly with the sub.

OhReallyNow -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 6:55:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito Umm, no, they don't force the sub to lie from the start. The sub, being insecure and needy for BDSM contact, chooses to lie in order to potentially have their needs met. Putting the responsibility for that on the dominant is just plain silly. The responsibility lies directly with the sub. *Thank you Ma'am lol. This slave was beginning to think that she was the only one who thought that.*

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:13:43 AM)
I think you need to be honest up front. Nobody is asking you to lie. It's called speaking up for yourself. Just because he/she is a Dom doesn't mean you immediatly have to submit. You tell them you aren't ready for this if you aren't. It's called communication, if it isn't there from the start the relationship will fail.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:15:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: patina This thread touches upon the one about lying but goes off in a different venue. I will give a scenerio instead of a question at the start. A sub is talking to a Dom both are checking each other out to be potential partners? The Dom says "You will always do as I say, no matter what. Correct?" The sub says hesiantly "y y ye yes." The Dom says "No matter what I ask you will do as I say correct?" The sub is still unsure but answers "yes" again the Dom recognizes the hesitazion and gets a little testy. The Dom says " Are you sure you want to be a sub?" "If you can't agree to always obey my every command you are a wannabe. Go play some where else." Unfortunatly this scenerio is an actual fact it happened to me 2 different times. my replies to these Doms were "If I am a wannabe sub you are a bullshit wannabe Master". then I either hung up the phone or closed down the chat room. I may have answered my own question in a way of how do you not lie to a Dom when he ask you are you going to always obey me. When you can not at the begning answer that truthfully. I feel Doms should realize that a sub needs time to develope trust and to demand complete obedience to a stranger is not fair. That sub has no idea as to what they are promising to obey too. What if they have a fear of heights and the Dom wants to suspend them in the air that won't work. For her/him to have said they would obey all things now makes them a liar. I do think the older more mature Doms know and understand this but unfortunatly the wannabe Dom and fakers are who latch on to us newbies and mess us up for a while then we figure it out and ignore them he he.[:'(] No one forces you to lie...whether wannabe dominant, older and experienced dominant, parents, boss, etc.. We all are confronted with these choices every day. When someone asks me if I can help their condition, I do what business and professional ethics tell me to do and have stated to some "No, I am not going to make your condition any better. I can help with the pain, I can help by showing you some things that are going to help over the long run to make it easier for you to do things but I can honestly tell you that the state of degeneration you have reached, through surgeries, wear and tear on the area, etc, has reached the point where I cannot intervene in such a manner to be corrective. I can be supportive and palliative but not corrective." You choose to lie. Any submissive answering in the manner you describe, when they do not really mean it, chooses to lie...perhaps in the hopes of finding a relationship and hoping that, once they are in the relationship they will either come to mean it OR that the dominant will now understand...since he feels something...what the submissive was trying to do through her lying. You've seen a couple of very good ways of responding here...I hope you choose to listen to them.

KatyLied -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:20:39 AM)
quote: The Dom says "You will always do as I say, no matter what. Correct?" I would reply: "I can't answer that until I get to know you better." If he doesn't like that response he probably isn't worth your time.

SweetSarijane -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:23:03 AM)
If a Dom I just started talking to was talking like that it would be the first indication that we may not be compatible. I wouldn't lie in answer to him. I would honestly say that when I make the choice to submit myself to a Dom, then I will be obediant, but not to the point that it causes actual harm to myself or loved ones, but then also I am very careful in who I would choose to submit to.

patina -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:25:22 AM)
It is so hard to put all the conversation in one paragraph without writing a book but my actual reply was "I will always try to comply to your orders my Lord". He was not satisfied with that. He wanted an outright Yes. I said I feel that until we know each other better I am unable to guarantee any 100% compliance. That is when he lost it. I have gotten tired of these fakers trying to take advantage of me and when I refuse to do as they demand on web cam as they are the Master and I am a sub/slave and so should do as I am told and masterbate for them, I then lose my temper and tell them they are the wannabe's back. If they treat me with respect then I treat them with respect. I am as I am and I give as I get. Only for my true Master will I obey and then this tigress will be a kitten. Only then will my claws be sheathed. Patina I am sorry if I took offense wrong, but I am getting a little tired of being told how wrong the subs are when we are new to this and some Doms are taking advantage of our newness. Kindly give us a break.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:26:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: patina The Dom says "You will always do as I say, no matter what. Correct?" The sub says hesiantly "y y ye yes." The Dom says "No matter what I ask you will do as I say correct?" The sub is still unsure but answers "yes" again the Dom recognizes the hesitazion and gets a little testy. The Dom says " Are you sure you want to be a sub?" "If you can't agree to always obey my every command you are a wannabe. Go play some where else." The answer, actually, is no. You will not always do as I say no matter what. If you are willing to show that sort of blind obedience, on an initial conversation, then you have major issues. Even once you trust a Dom/Domme, it should not be assumed as a sub that you wil always blindly obey. Even my boy, who is a very good slave, isnt expected to obey everything I say if he has a valid reason to object. A Master who is that unsure of himself is one to avoid. If he is not confident enough to earn your trust and obedience but must demand it unquestiningly from the first moment, chances are he will not have the resolve to hold it long. This is just my experience. Dominants who cannot take the time to work with a submissive before asking for their obedience tend not to keep them long. They do not have what it takes to carry on a relationship. Expecting not to be wilfully disobeyed is normal. We all expect that when working with a sub, new or not. However,you are not being forced to lie in that situation. You are amking a choice to do so. If you want to move forward and humor the Dom, se if something might develop then you choose to lie even if you do not actualy plan on follwing his every word. You are essentialy playing to his ego, becasue he has already let you knwo that if he deosnt get the answer he wants, you are dismissed. Bad situation, but usualy it should toss up red flags. Just my humble opinion. DV

OhReallyNow -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:27:17 AM)
quote: "I will always try to comply to your orders my Lord". He was not satisfied with that. He wanted an outright Yes ahhh, this slave understands now. Though, in context with your question as to whether or not you are forced to lie at the beginning, this slave stands by her original statement. No, you are not. In that case, your answer should have sufficed. It did not, so this slave would question his WANNABENESS.

thetammyjo -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:28:51 AM)
Do you think that a person who has the opinion that someone he just met should always obey him in all things at all times is a dominant? Do you think that a person who pushes another to fail or lie is a good dominant?

OhReallyNow -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:29:34 AM)
quote: Even once you trust a Dom/Domme, it should not be assumed as a sub that you wil always blindly obey. *this slave would agree. She has been with master some time now, yet there are still times that she questions him. Master would expect nothing less.*

MzTlaz -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:33:29 AM)
I think this is your clue! These are not 'Masters' they're horny net geeks looking to get off. Get out into the community, find a local munch and meet people...I'm not saying that all 'Masters' you meet at a munch will be 'real' but it's much easier to sift through the bullshit face to face. quote: ORIGINAL: patina I have gotten tired of these fakers trying to take advantage of me and when I refuse to do as they demand on web cam as they are the Master and I am a sub/slave and so should do as I am told and masterbate for them,

Sab -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:35:35 AM)
You cannot DEMAND trust and obediance right from the get go! It is something that has to be worked on over time - and that goes for both Dom and sub!

Auralius -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:35:50 AM)
no... I would disagree. No decent Master would cause unwelcome harm to come to his sub... no good one anyway... as such the sub should always blindly obey, except where the CoC is worn or no collar yet at all.

Auralius -> RE: Do Dom's force a sub to lie at the start (10/9/2006 7:37:22 AM)
I wholeheartedly second this. quote: ORIGINAL: MzTlaz I think this is your clue! These are not 'Masters' they're horny net geeks looking to get off. Get out into the community, find a local munch and meet people...I'm not saying that all 'Masters' you meet at a munch will be 'real' but it's much easier to sift through the bullshit face to face. quote: ORIGINAL: patina I have gotten tired of these fakers trying to take advantage of me and when I refuse to do as they demand on web cam as they are the Master and I am a sub/slave and so should do as I am told and masterbate for them,

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