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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 2:58:50 AM

Kedicat

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I think all nations should have nukes capable of being dropped/shot as far as and just a bit further than their own borders. No further. Invasion of any country would be a far costlier option, defence less costly.

Which again, is something that the nations with sizeable invasion level forces do not want to see happen. They want to be able to force their will on others. A nuke sting makes that much harder to do.

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 3:24:04 AM

seeksfemslave

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When you can only see and interpret events from the point of view of your own side, as many American posters are doing, then you will tread the well worn path of military disaster that history shows us has occurred throughout the ages.

With regard to Meatcleavers point about lack of War in Europe and the "sense" of the politicians, after WW2, then I believe it to be almost certain that the US would have in some way caused a War between them and the Soviet Union.....
had not the Soviets had nukes.

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 3:38:31 AM

meatcleaver

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As Churchill said, 'Jaw jaw is better than war war.' That is not to say talks will solve all problems but not talking to its adversaries as is the current US administration's policy is fruitless and has proved fruitless in the case of N Korea.

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 8:02:16 AM

toservez

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I think it is a lovely idea that Kim Jong Il is blowing up nukes underground, but I am extremely dubious he will ever do anything with it.

Additionally, China will bitch-slap him up one side or down the other if he provokes an occupying US presence (apart from the 45,000 US troops that function as the tripwire to prevent a North Korean invasion of South Korea, on the Asian continent. China stands to lose a huge proportion of their economy if North Korea pisses us off. Odds the Chinese are going to allow Kim Jong Il to do anything to put their trade in jeopardy are non-existent.

And China has plenty of nukes.

Sinergy

I have thought this for ahwile now but China until recently has bee very much too quiet on the subject, but I still agree this could be more solved by China taking the lead more then the U.S..

The problem of who has nukes is less about what they want them for or if they would actually use them then how secure they are with them and if they would sell them. It almost becomes about increasing the odds a fundementalist terrorist getting a hand on one or more might be the bigger issue.

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 8:18:51 AM

mnottertail

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I believe that china will remain stoic until china decides to act in it's own interest, they haven't the need for being found glamourous in the world opinion that some do.

Nuclear capability is not so rarified that it is not open to anyone who possesses a checkbook. Anything can be bought or sold. If the terrorist organizations have the will and a couple million, they can obtain a nuclear device quite readily, but they don't do real well in the airport scans, rather easy to track, they are radioactive you see, and enclosure in lead is a kinda large hint that it ain't a bag of gummi baren for the kiddies.

Think about this, it would not take too much intrigue to grind up a spent reactor rod and sow it over a well traveled street, let us say in Washington, D. C. (the steps to the senate) or New York (the steps to the UN)......

Many are acting like this is an Iraq or Waco, TX type of thing........

Let's go in there and disarm them because of......the sky is falling...........

There are more likely scenarios than KJ blowing a device at somebody.

Ron

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 8:55:18 AM

popeye1250

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It said on the news that NK is looking for unilateral talks with the U.S.
You know what THAT means! "FOREIGN AID" again which they'll use for their military!
They've already suckered Clinton on that.
Giving them one dime would be blackmail.

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 10:00:37 AM

mnottertail

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The thing is, is that we already promised them some shit a long time ago, and never followed thru, based on this entire scenario.

Of course it is blackmail, and Kujo is not as insane as he is made out to be.

Ron

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 12:38:40 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bills944

The two faces of Rumsfeld

2000: director of a company which wins $200m contract to sell nuclear reactors to North Korea
2002: declares North Korea a terrorist state, part of the axis of evil and a target for regime change

Randeep Ramesh
Friday May 9, 2003
The Guardian

Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea - a country he now regards as part of the "axis of evil" and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,952289,00.html

bills, the real insanity about this is not the Korean leader. It's us. We know our nation's leaders will sell anything to anyone if there's money in it and we know they'll brand a country the enemy if there's money it - even the same country (as per your links), they're not really that arsed and it's reached the point where they don't even try to hide it because they know we don't care anyway.

This information is staring us in the face and most people either shrug or pretend they haven't seen it.

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 12:42:41 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Plain answer to the answer, I don't.

They look at us and see that we are the only country to use nukes aggresively.

They want to arm themselves, or their Pres thinks it would be a good idea. I think he is right. Look at Iraq, never even thought of being a threat to us. Simply didn't have the means. But when they were sure there were no WMDs, did they abate, hell no, they attacked. Know why.

I do know they are a bunch of fucking cowards, if Iraq had WMD, but only a 100 mile range, well why didn't they use them ? They did not exist.

Korea knows that, and I do not say North Korea, it is Korea. It is North Korea as much as Ohio is in North US. The entire southern part of this country is held by force, just like up here. It is Korea. The South Koreans would get our wrath and be wiped out if the North Koreans were our buddies, and you know it, all of you know it.

It is all part of the plan. Let's get this straight, a group based in Afganistan attacks us and we respond by attacking Iraq. Hold on let's make fucking sure we got this absolutely straight. A group based in Afganistan attacked us so we attacked Iraq. Have you had a look at a map or a globe recently ?

There is only one thing that makes sense, there is an agenda of which most of us are unaware. I cannot say exactly who is and who is not in this cabal running things, but I can say this much, they are pretty much unbeatable until.......

Until money is worthless. Money BUYS that power, so at the moment money IS power. What if that changed ? Think about that.

Police and soldiers unpaid for too long eventually say "Fuck you ". Where is the power now ?

It is indeed the only way, we MUST break our addiction to money. It is the root, indeed the soul of their power over us. They play us with want and desire, becaue they have and we have not. You think making a thousand dollars a werek is something, it ain't shit. You think making a thousand dollars a day is something, it ain't shit.

The people who run the world make millions of dollars every fucking day. Get that through your head people, we are nothing but a fly in the ointment. Now things are turning, the REALLY rich are turning on some of the kinda rich.

Let them fight over it among themselves, get out, GET OUT of the money game. It is their gsme and we can not win it.

Only then can we move on and start to build real lives.

Don't get me wrong, this will not be easy, but it is the only way.

T

I'll take my hat off to this post. Best for some time.

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 12:55:46 PM

meatcleaver

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I don't want to upset you NG but the US said they would sell light water reactors to N Korea if they stop working on a heavy water reactor. There have been a few inducements by the US and if the package had been offered all together it might have been accepted but it was offered piecemeal.

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 5:51:38 PM

Termyn8or

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All fine and good, but if these people talked like me they would get on the phone with Bush and say "Fuck you, you bomb any country you feel like, just remember when you darken our doorstep it won't be so easy because we have nukes and are going to keep them, and YOU are the reason we need them".

You might be surprised to read that from an American, but remember this, not all of us are ignorant. And there are alot more of us who don't support their pre-emptive actions, and see that some of it was never needed, it was just part of the plan. While their policies help recruit new members for AlQeada and it's ilk, they are also drawing alot of enemies right here. What they do to us serves to breed more Timothy McVeighs and the like.

What I tried to start years ago was a movement to march on Washington, and we walk there. I wrote a list of like 10 demands, each paragraph started We Demand. Along with mentioning that the (hopefully) 5 or more million People out in the street are unarmed and if they fire on us they prove that they are not our goverrnment, but indeed an occupying force.

Of course we would all fly or drive to Virginia or whatever then have food and water, figure out the routes and march on in there. Try to get more people along the way too, just show them copies of our petition for redress.

Of course they would know we are coming, but so would everybody else, I don't think even these bastards would just open up on us, possibly (nowadays) even killing those who voted for them. Even with their control of the media there are alot of people with camcorders out there. It would be impossible to keep a lid on it. They would have to wage war against the Citizens. I'm sure some of the military will follow orders, but they are going to lose some, and probably their weapons too.

This may be an insane solution, but the problem is insane.

T

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 6:09:50 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

The people who run the world make millions of dollars every fucking day. Get that through your head people, we are nothing but a fly in the ointment. Now things are turning, the REALLY rich are turning on some of the kinda rich.

Let them fight over it among themselves, get out, GET OUT of the money game. It is their gsme and we can not win it.

Only then can we move on and start to build real lives.

Don't get me wrong, this will not be easy, but it is the only way.

T

Mr. McKenzie: "Well, its a well known fact, sonny jim, that the five wealthiest groups in the world, known as the Pentavirate, who control the newspapers and run everything, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado known as The Meadows"

Tony: "Who is in this Pentavirate?"

Mr. McKenzie "The Queen, the Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went teats up."

From "So I married an axe murderer." Stupidest movie title in existence on one of the most hilarious movies ever made.

Sinergy

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 7:20:49 PM

mnottertail

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As an addedendum, when the rubber meets the road, chicken breasts are just fowl tits in another guise.

Ron

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RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation - 10/10/2006 8:33:16 PM

Termyn8or

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Actually, Bilderberg and Trilateral Commision meetings rarely happen on US soil. When you change the names to protect the guilty, they are still guilty.

All the shit you hear about the Illuminati, while true, doesn't mean a thing, even Skull & Bones. Doesn't mean shit. It doesn't matter if they meet in some secret area or in their own back office, they will still do what they do. The fact that they have secret societies means nothing, so what !

The only thing it really does mean is that they operate coherently, which is something that We The People need to do if we are to bring about positive changes peacefully. We have to stop letting them cause "us" to fight over stupid shit, like abortion and gay marriage. You don't wan't to marry another guy, DON'T, you think abortion is wrong DON'T have one. Trust me, if we have our way nobody will strap you down and......

Just remembered where we are. :-)

What candidate EVER speaks about foreign policy, with possible changes needed ? The sound of this from the TV speakers doesn't seem to be forthcoming. When do We The People ask Our questions ?

It is right there in the Constitution, the right, nay the responsibility to petition the government for redress of our grievances. It even spells it out, in semi-plain Engish. Can you think of a better time ?

Schoolyard bullies can be handled in two ways. One is for the victims to get together and gang up on him. The problem is when you'tre talking this context, that means that those who created the situation will bring it down on us. They were pissed at Saddam and look what happened to the people there. I think that one day, such consequences could befall the American people.

I know that We The People have been remiss in even attempting to correct this problem, and probably deserve a minor stomping for that. The English aren't far behind with Blair and who knows. Two different situations though, we have a better Constitution, but they have a less controlled media. There should be a way to use this information to our advantage.

Tell you what, if say a revolution, possibly even a peaceful one, such as the extreme demonstration I described were to succeed, I would urge the People as well as anyone who gets caught with their lobbyists down, that is Senators and Congressmen, must hand write all bills they introduce.And they only get one sheet of paper per bill.

People, did you ever wonder why the houses have to pass spending bills ? The Pres can't spend money, he has to get his buddies in the houses to do it. His buddies, ya, we are in a quagmire of a thousand no-bid contracts because of them.

There are many points of the law. If you knew about the limited indemnity clauses in these handed out contracts you might be a bit terse to say the least. They are doing this with the money you pay them to supposedly make the US better, but they do no such thing.

If you're aware that for a couple of years US diplomats were canvassing most member states of the UN and others, to indemnify them from the Geneva Convention. Yes, they might just have a problem with the shit they been doing at Abu Graib.

Actually, AFTER his term as President, I really wouldn't mind seeing Bush drugged and dragged from the streets of Rome, like they did Ernst Zundel. Goddammit they bombed hospitals and TV stations (not in Rome, hell no), your tax money at work !

And you can talk all you want about snipers in those buildings, but the fucking point is that WE ARE THERE, THEY ARE NOT HERE. They defend their country, would we do any less ? If they were here, what would you do ?

In the whole of human history there has been alot of exploitation going on. Slaves here pyramids there and so forth. Point is : Why are not the same people in power as were years/centuries ago ?

The answer lies in the human instinct for survival, seems Korea is not giving up on it.

With oppression it seems that the human spirit responds and prevails. Under oppression it excels, flourishes indeed. Many many things to consider.

First and foremost is that a true leader's power comes from the People. Some seem to have forgotten that and need a reminder from We The People. Every Citizen of the united states not only has the right to petition the government for redress of grievances, He has a duty to do so (especially now). All adults owe all childrten to at least try to make the world a better place, and to be a good influence. Gettting this foreign policy thrown out would go a long way in curing our nation's ills.

Actually their whole attitude. and perhaps ours.

T

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