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RE: Grrrrrrrrr - 10/10/2006 7:52:51 PM

MASTERRocker

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From: Kitchener-Waterloo, ON
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Me no speak English....... me Canadian eh?

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RE: Grrrrrrrrr - 10/10/2006 9:51:37 PM

lilsky

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I think I have a headache.

in this case i think it's best termed as a brainache...and don't worry i don't think you're alone wiff this one..rofl

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RE: Grrrrrrrrr - 10/10/2006 10:07:47 PM

mtumwawaBwana

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try to attack your theory with the fact that the gene will, with age and replication within the short span of a lifetime, have snipits of DNA loss. so as to say, the gene is made up of DNA strands. as the DNA duplicates itself, there is a minute snipit that is lost in the duplicative act. the first theory? this was the cause of old age. with further investigation, came the notion that this was also a part of the mutative processes the genes go through as the mutations evolve into seemingly new gene pools. anomalies rear their ugly heads when the shortened DNA (with evolved weaknesses and errors) make matches and have offspring.

(in reply to Tikkiee)

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RE: Grrrrrrrrr - 10/10/2006 10:24:07 PM

evyy

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mutation is natural, if you look at the complexity of genetics its also enviable, all variation, and evolution has come about because of mutation, therefore DNA repair isn't so much of a factor, cells have precautions in place, such as thoughts that will try and fix a cancer causing mutation or if all else fails kill the cell (in fact cell in a multicellular organism are programmed for death, the continued existence relies on eternal reinforcement), but in the most place a mutation is just a mutation, most of them are invisible- have no effect on the phenotype and so it ability to survive and reproduce, which is what’s essential in natural selection, some a harmful and some beneficial, and in most cases cells do nothing about them, there is no subcellular bandaid which can fix every deviation from the norm, if there were life would never have evolved. A mutation is only passes on if it occurs in a gamete (a sex cell), and then is selected on in the resulting generation, once a mutation is established in an organism, it is then that organisms norm, the organisms is selected on at the macroscopic level, but not the mutation at the genetic, microscopic level, genetic drift is a sampling effect that occurs in any real population, it doesn’t necessarily involve mutation at all, just variations in alleles, which occur in all species (and I suppose result from mutation at some point, but once again a mutation that have become the norm, or one of the norms for the species). Okay this is just random biological thought flow now, so i’m going to stop writing and go back to an essay on oculogenesis and early ocular development in metazoan phyla, coz that’s where the genetics really get fun

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RE: Grrrrrrrrr - 10/10/2006 10:39:58 PM

evyy

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quote:

I am having a hard time understanding the concept that if mutation can be reversed due to DNA repair; how come this does not apply to genetic drift? AND, if natual selection is the normal in most society; how come DNA repair does not occur there?

Basically DNA has some limited ability to repair, but the vast majority of mutations are not 'reversed', a mutation that effects phenotype (ie does something to the organism) becomes an allele in the population, once it is established it can be acted upon by natural selection, this can act against the phenotype of the mutation, which is to say that an individual with that mutation will have less chance to survive and reproduce, and so the mutation can be reduced or eliminated from the population- depending on mode of inheritance, a recessive trait can never be eliminated from any real population. One the other hand the mutation might be beneficial, or, as in the most case, invisible. The DNA will not be repaired because an inherited mutation isn't damage, it's what makes you not a chemosynthetic protocell, DNA replicates, the mutation is part of the DNA.
Genetic drift is another matter altogether, if you have any two populations, and sample from then, as you do when gametes are randomly combined, ie, sex, there will be a sampling effect, just like if you flip a coin 10 times you wont always get heads 5, tails 5, if you flip two coins you might get heads 3, tails 7 on one and heads 10 on the other, its just change, which don’t always follow probability. Genetic drift is change that will occur in any two separated populations regardless of mutation and/or natural selection, all it relies on is having more then 1 allele for a trait, which admittedly is a result of some ancestral mutation, but once again that mutation isn’t damage, its just variation

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RE: Grrrrrrrrr - 10/10/2006 10:51:32 PM

evyy

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okay going to say one more thing and then shut up and go and do my work... i have a gene called 'sonic hedgehog'... in my essay that is, well technically in me to, so everyone has a gene called sonic hedgehog really, which incidentally is homologous to a Drosophila (fly) gene called hedgehog, the fly also has one called dachshund

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RE: Grrrrrrrrr - 10/11/2006 11:02:17 AM

Tikkiee

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quote:

Basically DNA has some limited ability to repair, but the vast majority of mutations are not 'reversed', a mutation that effects phenotype (ie does something to the organism) becomes an allele in the population, once it is established it can be acted upon by natural selection, this can act against the phenotype of the mutation, which is to say that an individual with that mutation will have less chance to survive and reproduce, and so the mutation can be reduced or eliminated from the population- depending on mode of inheritance, a recessive trait can never be eliminated from any real population. One the other hand the mutation might be beneficial, or, as in the most case, invisible. The DNA will not be repaired because an inherited mutation isn't damage, it's what makes you not a chemosynthetic protocell, DNA replicates, the mutation is part of the DNA.
Genetic drift is another matter altogether, if you have any two populations, and sample from then, as you do when gametes are randomly combined, ie, sex, there will be a sampling effect, just like if you flip a coin 10 times you wont always get heads 5, tails 5, if you flip two coins you might get heads 3, tails 7 on one and heads 10 on the other, its just change, which don’t always follow probability. Genetic drift is change that will occur in any two separated populations regardless of mutation and/or natural selection, all it relies on is having more then 1 allele for a trait, which admittedly is a result of some ancestral mutation, but once again that mutation isn’t damage, its just variation