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RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 3:57:45 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: peterK50
I've been in numerous restaurants where there is a prominant sign "We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service To Anyone".


Yeah, I call bullshit. To refuse someone service except for justifiable cause is discrimination and leaves you open to a lawsuit.

I have seen that kind of sign before also. It's not true, but the business is asserting it as if it were true when it's not. Obviously they do that because the sign becomes the symbol of authority with a troublesome customer, and to serve that purpose it doesn't have to be true. It's a bluff.


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RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 4:08:09 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

quote:

ORIGINAL: peterK50
I've been in numerous restaurants where there is a prominant sign "We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service To Anyone".


Yeah, I call bullshit. To refuse someone service except for justifiable cause is discrimination and leaves you open to a lawsuit.

I have seen that kind of sign before also. It's not true, but the business is asserting it as if it were true when it's not. Obviously they do that because the sign becomes the symbol of authority with a troublesome customer, and to serve that purpose it doesn't have to be true. It's a bluff.



Is it though?

Surely any business, has the right to accept or decline contracts, based on its own criteria, however ridiculous and unfair those criteria might seem to others?

And as a business which concludes retail contracts with the public, surely then a store has the right to refuse any contract it prefers not to make?

Is there a lawyer in the house?

I speak BTW, as one of those who in theory could be refused service for who I am.

E

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RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 4:15:18 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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LadyEllen:

Could they refuse you housing? In the U.S. the answer is "no, they could not refuse you housing." Just keep extending it out. In the U.S. this stuff is generally covered under Title 42 of the federal codes.


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RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 4:17:32 PM   
peterK50


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A business can do what it wants, including not serve people with towels on their heads. It would not be wise, given the negative publicity & probable lawsuits, let alone many people with towels on their heads also have cash to spend. Religions still cannot break the law. Mormans cannot practice pologamy, native Americans cannot use peyote, Rastaferians cannot smoke pot. Christians can justify slavery based on religious docterine, it just won't stand up in court. A taxi medallion is issued by the city & a provision of it's issuance is a fare cannot be refused except if the driver had a "reasonable fear" for his own safety. That's a broad definition, we'll let a judge decide no doubt. A private organization can set any rules it wants if it's within the law. If that private organization wants tax-exempt status or government funding then all anti-discrimination statues apply. The Americans with disabilities act is a law, refusing them access is illegal. Breaking the law is illegal. That's not difficult to comprehend, for me at least.

< Message edited by peterK50 -- 10/10/2006 4:18:54 PM >


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RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 4:26:50 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

LadyEllen:

Could they refuse you housing? In the U.S. the answer is "no, they could not refuse you housing." Just keep extending it out. In the U.S. this stuff is generally covered under Title 42 of the federal codes.



Hi CG

In the UK too; social housing is available to all and no discrimination is permitted. Private housing however, whether for sale or for let, the owners can discriminate all they like.

Basically, state/ local government/ statutory bodies are not permitted to discriminate, but private organisations can?

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 4:30:45 PM   
Chaingang


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Joined: 10/24/2005
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No, private entities in the U.S. also could not refuse you housing. But it's sticky, you have to prove discrimination to make your point and that's not always easy.

I would say that technically you have freedom to contract in any way you choose provided you do not do so in a way that is discriminatory. Otherwise, you'd have places in the south refusing service to black people - and that's not allowed any longer.

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"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

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RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 4:34:39 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Breaking the law is illegal. That's not difficult to comprehend, for me at least.


peter,
We agree and it's good to have you on board against illegal immigration! Remember to vote accordingly.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 4:41:38 PM   
peterK50


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Once "reform" is enacted, passes the leagal litmus, and is put into practice, I'll support it or work for change.

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Religion Is About Seeking Knowledge, Not Knowing All The Answers.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 5:00:52 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Breaking the law is illegal. That's not difficult to comprehend, for me at least.


peter,
We agree and it's good to have you on board against illegal immigration! Remember to vote accordingly.


Mercnbeth, the last time I heard, 83% of Americans want our borders secured and our immigration laws strictly enforced.
It kind of makes you wonder who the 17% are that Don't want them enforced.
Next month I'll be voting for the person with the toughest stance on immigration and illegal aliens.
Welcome aboard Pete!

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 5:11:57 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
I'll vote against globalism - which will leave me with no one to vote for.

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RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/10/2006 11:36:02 PM   
Estring


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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Just another example of pc cowardice. If these had been Christian or Jewish taxi drivers, you can bet that there would be quite the uproar. But Muslims, we sure as hell can't do anything that may seem prejudicial to them. Like make them obey the laws of this country. God forbid we would do that.

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RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/11/2006 12:14:00 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Joined: 6/16/2006
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In the UK we have just had a Muslim Police Officer "excused boots" ie given special privileges solely on the grounds of being Muslim. He didn't want to stand guard outside the Israeli embassy.

We regularly have the highest ranking Muslim police officer dragged into TV studios to offer political/social comment on the current Muslim Gripe of the Day.

This kind of thing would have been unthinkable a few years ago ! In fact when the Manchester Chief Constable made some scathing comments about minorities he was blasted with criticism and quietly removed from his job.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 10/11/2006 12:21:25 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/11/2006 12:40:28 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The best source of truth and facts about a group of people or a religion are their actions. Those that espouse tolerance and acceptance of the Muslim religion ignore their actions in countries under their control. If woman can't show their head in Iraq, or drive in Saudi Arabia; well it's their country and their 'right' to inhibit freedom. If woman are stoned to death or whipped because they lost their virginity to a rape, its not a big deal. But what happens if a Muslim philosophy came to your neighborhood?

Currently there are two places in the world where Muslim religious beliefs supersede local laws or at least trump them.

quote:

At least 20 dog-aided blind people have lodged discrimination complaints with the Victorian Taxi Directorate. Dozens more have voiced their anger.
And there have been several complaints that drivers refuse to allow passengers to carry sealed bottles of alcohol.
Victorian Taxi Association spokesman Neil Sach said the association had appealed to the mufti of Melbourne to give religious approval for Muslim cabbies to carry guide dogs.
Source: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,20544559-661,00.html

Of course you come to expect this in the UK and Europe. Can't happen in the US? At liberal as the state of Minnesota is, I believe it's still a US state. Our taxes are used to pave the roads, the local municipality governs taxi licensing and laws. However, if you have to be picked up at the Minneapolis airport this Christmas make sure you aren't bringing a bottle of wine to your host.

quote:

When flight attendant Eva Buzek returned to Minneapolis from a trip to France, five taxi drivers refused to take her home from the airport. The reason? She had two bottles of wine in her suitcase -- and the drivers were Muslims, who don't drink and refuse to have alcohol in their taxis.
Source: http://www.startribune.com/462/story/709262.html

Do you know it's against the law in NYC to refuse any fare as a taxi driver? I guess the political correctness as it applies to Muslims overrides all other laws and regulations? Discrimination is allowed if the discrimination is being done by Muslims.

A Christmas tree gets the ACLU up in arms. The cross on the LA emblem offends. Why not this issue? Aren't rights being violated?

Or lets apply this same religious perspective universally. Catholic taxi drivers can't take anyone to an abortion clinic. A Christian driver can refuse to accept a homosexual. Democratic drivers can refuse Republicans.

Does this concern anyone?



Mercnbeth:
Chaingang is absolutely correct about title 42 US code ...The equal protection clause of the 4th and 14th ammendment of the U.s. constitution absolutely forbids this kind of behaviour.  Many businesses put this sign up as a form of intimidation and to my knowledge it is the best way for a litigious person to gain a great deal of money.  Dennys was successfully sued on three different occasions, not for refusing service but for giving substandard service to African-Americans.  Just because they write it down and paste it on the wall does not make it true...I can think of no better way to loose your business, your home and spend the rest of your life paying off a huge judgement than to try to enforce that sign.  The same for the taxi driver...the shield he carries is pretty explicit that he can only refuse a fare for cause and not for any religious hokum.  so if you would like to make a point and a few bux at the same time flag down one of those mongoloids and get in the cab with a case of Jack Daniels and a lawyer.  If the asshole is an immigrant the chances of getting him deported are pretty good.  More than a million americans died as a prerequisite to the 14th ammendment.  Anyone who does not agree with the U.S. Constitution does not need to be in my country.  If you want to live in an Islamic republic then go there with my best wishes, but don't bring that weak shit to my country.

thompson


____________________________________________________________


If I am asleep and you want to wake me.
If I am awake and don't want to make me.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/11/2006 12:55:33 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The best source of truth and facts about a group of people or a religion are their actions. Those that espouse tolerance and acceptance of the Muslim religion ignore their actions in countries under their control. If woman can't show their head in Iraq, or drive in Saudi Arabia; well it's their country and their 'right' to inhibit freedom. If woman are stoned to death or whipped because they lost their virginity to a rape, its not a big deal. But what happens if a Muslim philosophy came to your neighborhood?

Currently there are two places in the world where Muslim religious beliefs supersede local laws or at least trump them.

quote:

At least 20 dog-aided blind people have lodged discrimination complaints with the Victorian Taxi Directorate. Dozens more have voiced their anger.
And there have been several complaints that drivers refuse to allow passengers to carry sealed bottles of alcohol.
Victorian Taxi Association spokesman Neil Sach said the association had appealed to the mufti of Melbourne to give religious approval for Muslim cabbies to carry guide dogs.
Source: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,20544559-661,00.html

Of course you come to expect this in the UK and Europe. Can't happen in the US? At liberal as the state of Minnesota is, I believe it's still a US state. Our taxes are used to pave the roads, the local municipality governs taxi licensing and laws. However, if you have to be picked up at the Minneapolis airport this Christmas make sure you aren't bringing a bottle of wine to your host.

quote:

When flight attendant Eva Buzek returned to Minneapolis from a trip to France, five taxi drivers refused to take her home from the airport. The reason? She had two bottles of wine in her suitcase -- and the drivers were Muslims, who don't drink and refuse to have alcohol in their taxis.
Source: http://www.startribune.com/462/story/709262.html

Do you know it's against the law in NYC to refuse any fare as a taxi driver? I guess the political correctness as it applies to Muslims overrides all other laws and regulations? Discrimination is allowed if the discrimination is being done by Muslims.

A Christmas tree gets the ACLU up in arms. The cross on the LA emblem offends. Why not this issue? Aren't rights being violated?

Or lets apply this same religious perspective universally. Catholic taxi drivers can't take anyone to an abortion clinic. A Christian driver can refuse to accept a homosexual. Democratic drivers can refuse Republicans.

Does this concern anyone?



Mercnbeth:
Chaingang is absolutely correct about title 42 US code ...The equal protection clause of the 4th and 14th ammendment of the U.s. constitution absolutely forbids this kind of behaviour.  Many businesses put this sign up as a form of intimidation and to my knowledge it is the best way for a litigious person to gain a great deal of money.  Dennys was successfully sued on three different occasions, not for refusing service but for giving substandard service to African-Americans.  Just because they write it down and paste it on the wall does not make it true...I can think of no better way to loose your business, your home and spend the rest of your life paying off a huge judgement than to try to enforce that sign.  The same for the taxi driver...the shield he carries is pretty explicit that he can only refuse a fare for cause and not for any religious hokum.  so if you would like to make a point and a few bux at the same time flag down one of those mongoloids and get in the cab with a case of Jack Daniels and a lawyer.  If the asshole is an immigrant the chances of getting him deported are pretty good.  More than a million americans died as a prerequisite to the 14th ammendment.  Anyone who does not agree with the U.S. Constitution does not need to be in my country.  If you want to live in an Islamic republic then go there with my best wishes, but don't bring that weak shit to my country.

thompson


____________________________________________________________


If I am asleep and you want to wake me.
If I am awake and don't want to make me.


Thompson, HERE! HERE!

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/11/2006 2:12:20 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

I'll vote against globalism - which will leave me with no one to vote for.


Heh... If I even see just a ''hint'' of globalistic idealism mentioned in their campaign platform, I won't vote for them.



 - R



_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/11/2006 3:24:47 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
I find it incredible that so many Americans are against globalisation when successive American governments have been the leading promoters of it.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/11/2006 4:20:19 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I find it incredible that so many Americans are against globalisation when successive American governments have been the leading promoters of it.


Meatcleaver :  
That's because outside of occasionally hearing about it on the six o'clock news, VERY VERY few of them have done any research with regard to its implications. And then for the few who actually do....their level of understanding rarely goes beyond the boundary of a wikipedia entry.

Most Americans are so boggled-down with consumerism that if you were to walk around the streets of New York tomorrow morning and ask the first twenty people you encountered who the current national security adviser is, maybe one or two out of the twenty might give you the correct answer. And I'm totally serious.

Remember....We're not stupid out here, just overly consumed with Starbucks and Hummers.



 - R

Edited to add :  Just realized I read your post wrong - You say : ''So many Americans are against globalization''  - My contention is that very few actually care about it or care to understand it in the first place. Wal-Mart would cease to exist if they really cared about Globalization.


< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 10/11/2006 4:48:17 AM >


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/11/2006 7:02:37 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline
In 50 states it is illegal for a woman to go around topless all because of Christian nutcases.  Where does the insantity end? 

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/11/2006 7:17:42 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72

I never understood...why should we care about the sexual orientation of political people? I honestly could care less..so long as they are lowering MY TAXES lol


It seems tp me it's the politicians that care. Once they stop caring they will find out that the majority of people don't care about politicians and their little pecadillos either as long as they do their job well.

In France a politician can fuck the whole of the woman's soccer team and the mens too and no one cares as long as they are good politicians. Here a politician had to exploit a prostitute in order to have to resign. Not pay for one, that is the ordinary order of things, I mean EXPLOIT HER as in use her and try getting away without paying her (stupid idiot).

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/11/2006 7:21:54 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A Peek at a the future Muslim world... - 10/11/2006 8:19:22 AM   
Master96


Posts: 593
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

In the UK we have just had a Muslim Police Officer "excused boots" ie given special privileges solely on the grounds of being Muslim. He didn't want to stand guard outside the Israeli embassy.

We regularly have the highest ranking Muslim police officer dragged into TV studios to offer political/social comment on the current Muslim Gripe of the Day.

This kind of thing would have been unthinkable a few years ago ! In fact when the Manchester Chief Constable made some scathing comments about minorities he was blasted with criticism and quietly removed from his job.


I don't want to discuss something not relative to the thread. But... does anyone here know what happened to Lebanon, the Lebanese people? That Officer has Lebanese family members. How could he "stand guard outside the Israeli embassy"?!?!?

What would you do if you were in his shoes?


_____________________________

Master96,

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Understand that actions will always speak louder than words.


Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence? - Sai Baba

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 40
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