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ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

Another reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution was to provide a way for the people to protect themselves from the government (our government).

We've never used this right, but the 13 Original Colonies were were sceptical of a Federal Government - since every "Federal" government in history has abused it's power in one way or another, I don't think they were too far off base.

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ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

Another reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution was to provide a way for the people to protect themselves from the government (our government).

We've never used this right, but the 13 Original Colonies were were sceptical of a Federal Government - since every "Federal" government in history has abused it's power in one way or another, I don't think they were too far off base.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

Another reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution was to provide a way for the people to protect themselves from the government (our government).

We've never used this right, but the 13 Original Colonies were were sceptical of a Federal Government - since every "Federal" government in history has abused it's power in one way or another, I don't think they were too far off base.

The 2nd amendment reads A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
 
This could mean people in the collective sense and not people as in the individual sense and seems to suggest the former rather than the latter. Can anyone tell me if it has ever been tested?

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

Another reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution was to provide a way for the people to protect themselves from the government (our government).

We've never used this right, but the 13 Original Colonies were were sceptical of a Federal Government - since every "Federal" government in history has abused it's power in one way or another, I don't think they were too far off base.

The 2nd amendment reads A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
 
This could mean people in the collective sense and not people as in the individual sense and seems to suggest the former rather than the latter. Can anyone tell me if it has ever been tested?

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

What is the fascination with guns in the US?

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am thinking about this one. I know it is a hot button for some people on both sides of the issue. I would say I am moreso in the middle. I know alot of people that should NOT have a gun and I know ALOT more people that do have guns.

I grew up in a house that had them. Never gave it a second thought. I began target shooting when I was still a kid, was a natural and I still love it. I enjoy going to the police range and blasting at the moving and popup targets on the training field I started hunting deer when I was still in my teens, it was meat for the freezer. I no longer hunt because I can now afford to buy meat where I couldn't before. I do still have many aquaintances that enjoy hunting and I have no problem eating what they hunt when it is offered. I would venture a guess that at least 90 - 100% of my neighbours own guns and that does not bother me at all.

I don't think it is an obsession for me at all. It is just a part of life. It's not scary or abnormal. I don't think making them illegal is going to change crime one bit. Those that want them for criminal purposes will get them guaranteed. I know, my exhusband always did. However I don't consider wether I own a gun or not to be a deterent to a criminal that may want to get into my house. It's just not that sort of neighbourhood. I would have a higher risk of getting attacked by a mad cow protecting her calf. The way I see it is that owning guns has become such an ingrained part of US culture that many bristle at the idea of having the right to own them taken away, wether we really want the damned things all that badly or not. It's more the principle rather than the actual "having". Although we, as a nation, are damned good at wanting to "have" all sorts of unnecessary crap.

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ORIGINAL: SenseofBelonging

there is a small town in georgia which, several years ago, passed a law making it mandatory for each head of household to keep a gun in the home.  since enactment, crime rates have dropped like the proverbial stone. 

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Hmmm, so it's more about holding on to your perceived rights rather than a fascination with guns? Sounds like you see it as a symbol of citizens' rights.

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ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

but this is after all a country By and for the people!

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If the answer is that Americans needed to arm themselves 225 years ago in a war with Britain don't worry about it, there's no way we're going to pull that shit again, we can't even run a bath anymore let alone a military campaign.

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ORIGINAL: caitlyn

You would have to live here in America, to really understand ...

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: SenseofBelonging

there is a small town in georgia which, several years ago, passed a law making it mandatory for each head of household to keep a gun in the home.  since enactment, crime rates have dropped like the proverbial stone. 

Fair enough, Sense. Out of interest, do you have any links so I can see which crimes have dropped and by how much?

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Hmmm, so it's more about holding on to your perceived rights rather than a fascination with guns? Sounds like you see it as a symbol of citizens' rights. I'm trying to think of a similar example here and I can't think of anything we get so excited about. Maybe if they stopped our beer down the pub we'd be seriously pissed off and then get some guns from somewhere to shoot the bar owners and take what's rightfully ours. Apart from that, nothing springs to mind.

To be honest NG - it pisses me off that I am not allowed to own a gun; why am I forbidden? There are laws in place to prevent murder - and if I wanted to murder someone, I'd find another means to do it, in the absence of owning a gun.
 
And the very real fact that one could get a gun for the illegal shooting of your fictional bar owners, just says it all. Criminals get guns regardless of the ban here - in fact criminals have managed to get hold of SMGs since the ban on private gun ownership. Gun crime has escalated through the roof, whilst those who had their guns confiscated not long ago are conspicuous in their absence from prisons, it seems.
 
Of course, there should not be a free for all - it needs to be controlled. The Michael Ryans of this world should never have had a gun in the first place for goodness sake. But to ban all of us because of one or two nutters, is ridiculous and just another knee jerk reaction to keep the readers of The Daily Mail et al happy.

On your reducing crime point, does it not differ from state to state i.e. if you took guns away from a hunting area in the wilds somewhere then it would make no difference but what if you took guns away from New York or Chicago - would it make a difference then?

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ORIGINAL: Aileen68

I live not far from a major highway that runs directly into NYC.  For quite a while the area was getting daytime breakins.  They would hit the house and be out of the area quickly due to the easy highway access.  I've only had to pull the gun out once and that was due to a very large bear becoming aggressive toward my dog in my yard.  But it's nice to know that I can pull out that gun if I need it.

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ORIGINAL: MasterKalif

NorthernGent, good topic as always....in any case, it is true this crazy fascination with guns is the fear of "protection" and so forth....which I can understand as I got robbed about two years ago, and the police were never able to help me out, they even refused to take finger prints....the cops in the US in my opinion are good for just being a pain in the "kebaba", like pulling me over for going a bit over the speed limit....

MK, we have exactly the same here. High rates of robbery, little perceived police protection. We tend to see robbery as simply one of life's pain in the arse things that just isn't worth shooting someone.

I think it is a cultural thing that is ingrained, as it is in the constitution, they see it as a right, which in my opinion makes little sense....sure is it fun to own a gun? probably....I want to take shooting lessons someday, would be fun. But the tragedy of the thing is that a thief can find a gun in your house and use it against you....or the family's children could find it and go on a killing spree or kill someone accidentally. I do worry if my neighbors own a gun, because I wouldn't trust them with one. Luckily I live in an apt complex, so I doubt that to be the case.