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committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 4:46:58 AM

subbie12

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I keep hearing about people (especially ppl in public office) who have committed a crime and all of a sudden they are making the announcement that they are "bi-polar"! This seems so absurd!

Being bi-polar is not an excuse to justify committing a crime. Millions of people who really are diagnosed by a psychiatrist as being bi-polar and don't commit crimes. The people (and especially their lawyers who are advising them to claim this) do not realize the disservice they are doing to the people who are mentally ill. Such practices are only making it more difficult for society to not see the mentally ill as dangerous to society! All the hard work that has gone into helping to educate society to not see the mentally ill as socially lower class people because they are considered dangerous is going down the drain.

I know that the lawyers are only trying to do their job but surely they could use some other tactic. It really makes me upset to see this going on.

Ok....enough of a rant for the moment. *climbs down from soap box*

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 4:58:05 AM

meatcleaver

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I've got a doctor friend ( a general practitioner) who has spent a life time in psychiatric branch of medical care and he said from observing psychiatrists at close quarters for so long, it becomes increasingly clear they know nothing and its all voodoo. So how anything so ethereal can be definitively ruled on a particular condition is a nonsense. It's just the same as medieval superstition.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 5:11:33 AM

KenDckey

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I have a grandson that is bi-polar. He is definately a criminal. But it is also a chemical imbalance which can be controlled if he stays on his pills.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 5:28:59 AM

meatcleaver

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I suffer bi-polar too but I've always resisted taking anything because I find it helps me with my artwork. Pills neutralizes the negatives but also neutralizes the positives.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 5:42:24 AM

subbie12

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Depression, bi-polar and some other psychiratric diagnoses are caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Just as diabeties is caused by the lack of insulin. There are medications that can help to right this imbalance and it takes a while to find the one that works for each individual. Next, it takes time to find and get to the right level of that medication in the system. Then, the patient must continue to take said medication for the rest of their life or until it is no longer for them to take it any longer. Some people don't like the way these medications make them feel and go off them. For a portion of these people the decision to not take the medication can lead to really bad things happening. But for others nothing bad happens and they manage to get along without the medications.

That being said...it still does not justify someone commiting a crime and suddenly declaring "I am bi-polar and that is an excuse for my bad behavior"!!

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 5:48:29 AM

meatcleaver

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subbie12 wrote 'Millions of people who really are diagnosed by a psychiatrist as being bi-polar'

Thinking about it, I don't really see where psychiatry comes into it. Bi-polar being a chemical inbalance is a treatable medical condition and not a mental illness as such and doesn't require psychiatric diagnosis.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 6:17:33 AM

MistressCamille

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You all make it sound so easy but it's not. Bi-polar is hard to treat and there is sometimes no treatment that works well.

However, I don't see using it for a cop out on committing crime either.

That's like Mark Foley and Mel Gibson using alcohol as an out for their problems.... so convenient to hide in an abuse center instead of standing up and taking the hit.

And just because something is treatable it doesn't mean it's not a mental illness.

< Message edited by MistressCamille -- 10/13/2006 6:18:57 AM >

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 6:33:27 AM

KatyLied

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This book is a good read on the topic. It talks about pedigrees and artistry. It's written by a manic-depressive.

http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Fire-Manic-Depressive-Artistic-Temperament/dp/068483183X

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 6:46:49 AM

LadyJulieAnn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

subbie12 wrote 'Millions of people who really are diagnosed by a psychiatrist as being bi-polar'

Thinking about it, I don't really see where psychiatry comes into it. Bi-polar being a chemical inbalance is a treatable medical condition and not a mental illness as such and doesn't require psychiatric diagnosis.

I'm assuming that you realize that psychiatrists have medical degrees.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 6:47:43 AM

subbie12

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To be properly treated by medications requires that the patient be prescribed the medications and regularly see a psychiatrist. While it is true that many people receive their diagnosis by a GP, they really should be under the care of a licensed psych doc. as they are trained to recognize and treat these type of problems. A GP is trained to treat the whole body and their training actually does not include much on mental/emotional problems.

Proper treatment of any mental/emotional illness especially the treatment that includes medications requires (according to the DSMV that I have) the inclusion of a psych doc to prescribe the medications/follow up by monthly visits and to be really effective appointments with a therapist/counselor. People on medications need to be monitored to be sure the medications are working correctly and not actually harming the patient.

What I am mainly looking for is feedback on the subject of the use of sudden declarations of mental illness especially bi-polar.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 6:54:07 AM

Celeste43

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The reason people don't announce they are bi-polar until their backs are to the wall is simple, it isn't anybody else's business. Plus once you do tell someone, they look at you like they have three heads. There are still a lot of people in this country who feel that anyone who goes to a therapist must be crazy. Would you subject yourself to this if keeping quiet avoided it?

As far as treatment, yes it exists and no it is not perfect. Even when you're on a stable dose, your moods can still swing. Add in stress or external problems such as Seasonal Affectiveness Disorder and your bi-polar can become worse overnight. That doesn't mean the meds need to be played with daily, because they shouldn't be. It does mean that something that causes problems with ordinary people can cause much bigger problems in someone with an existing mental illness. Including irrational behavior that may be illegal.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 7:07:07 AM

DiurnalVampire

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I am bipolar and unmedicated. The pills never worked well for me, the mood swings were still there, but the personlaity was not.

I find it personally insulting that people woud use it as a cop out. It is, granted, one of the top misdiagnosed mental problems. People recognize the depressed part, however a lot of times tey will miss the Manic part simply becasue it isnt all that unpleasant. These politicians should have to actualy live with the disorder for a few days, and see what it is they are claiming to have before they use it as a defense. And if they are going to try and use it as a defense, I aso think they should be required (for a period before the trial) to go through what those of us who are bipolar have gone through. REgular doctors visits, medication trials, sleepless nights and explaining to their families what realy goes on in their heads.

I have never had criminal tendancies that I blamed on my disorder. Fights with significant others maybe, but thats about it. I do believe that during a manic episode that someone could think that something criminal was acceptable, r worse they might not actually believe they were doing it and might mistake it for playing out a fantasy. I know in my mind a lot of things during severe manic episodes didnt actually seem like reality.

However, any jury should be given the facts about bipolar disorder if they are going to use it as a defense. And the fact that they are al of a sudden diagnosed, with no prior sympotms, much less treatment, after theyve done something wrong should realy throw up some flags. And it usualy does, the lawyers who advise these things dont seem to think that the people are getting wise to their tricks.

DV

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 7:21:26 AM

JerseyKrissi72

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I suffer from post traumatic stress disorder, OCD and I'm bipolar and there is NO EXCUSE for comitting a crime..surely being bipolar is NOT an excuse....People who use a disorder to justify a crime make me sick because those who really ARE suffering are frowned upon.....I am a mother of four beautiful sons and I don't have a criminal record and I have suffered with bipolar all my life!!

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 7:36:10 AM

PrimitiveLogic

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Accountability is always the challenge for any and all behavior isn't it? My daughter suffers from a long list of issues including a Dx. of bi-polar. She continually makes poor choices. She blames a lot on it...including her crimminal behavior.
As to sudden declarations...
It is often only in retrospect that a person's behavior can be put in perspective. It's no different than listening to the experts try to analyze a mass murderer's behavior after the fact, especially when no one had a clue beforehand that 'he' had any tendencies. Bipolar can mildly irritating to life debilitiating...at anywhere on that spectrum at any given moment. That is the torture of it for the patient and their loved ones. We are the ones left with aftermath...as they often have little concept of cause and effect. I personally feel..you do the crime...you do the time.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 7:38:40 AM

JerseyKrissi72

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I have to agree with you there Sir, if you do the crime you must do the time. I take medications which help my condition but through meditation (prayer) I have been able to live a normal life, whatever normal is lol...

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 9:27:30 AM

MasterFireMaam

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I'm bi-polar. I take my meds religiously. That means that I'm a stable person who contributes to society in a positive way. Members of my family are not stable and do not contribute in a positive way...simply because they DON'T take their meds.

There is a phenomina that happens in a lot of mental health patients...people take their meds, start to feel better, then decide they don't need the meds and stop taking them. They don't understand, or what to understand, that these are maintanence meds...we need to take them every day. It's not like a cold remedy that you take until you feel better. They fall, sometimes worse, back into the cyclic mood shifts that really can control how you behave and think. For whatever reasons, they don't ever equate the meds with the stability, so they often don't seek to go back on them...after all, they took them and now look!

Being bi-polar doesn't mean your a criminal...but being a criminal AND bi-polar together can certainly explain some behaviors. It's the same thing are saying if you're gum, you must be sugarless. We all know that's not true...however, if you're sugarless and chewy, you just might be gum.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 10:05:58 AM

toservez

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The problem anytime you get into the mental health area and medication is that it is a multiple of issues and problems and people only want or think it is about just one thing. Many times it is about the degree of the disease but too often people are labeled in a broad stroke.

I despise how we are doping up our children and many adults before all other options are done, but I also strongly feel that many medications are truly wonderful for those who do suffer from mental diseases. Unfortunately for people who are on drugs for these the side effects or what it takes away is often very tough for them to give up. Social worker after social worker will tell you the biggest problem outside of finding the right medicine and dosage is getting patients to keep taking the medicine.

I do not believe at all that any medical condition is an excuse for a crime, but I also believe our justice system is more than about lock away and do not worry, for society's and economical/tax purposes and if the behavior is treatable and the MAIN reason for the crime happening then a lessor sentence or another way should be explored. It is another one of those great contradictions in most people's political beliefs. Tough on all law breakers but do not want to pay the taxes to keep everyone in jail for a long time.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 11:11:05 AM

KatyLied

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I feel that we need to be compassionate with offenders who have mental illness, but we don't need to excuse their behavior. Perhaps addressing their needs during sentencing in a step in the right direction. I always think, though, of Mary Kay Letourneau and how she erred after receiving a leniency the first time she offended. I don't know what the answer is.

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/13/2006 11:13:32 AM

JerseyKrissi72

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I will admit that even with medications I tend to make poor decisions that my doctor believes are a result of my bipolar. Back when I was younger, the drugs, alcohol use, sex, etc were mainly a result of my disorder. Everyone has to find a way in this world to control their urges, mine is through prayer/ meditation and the loving Dom that I have in my life now....

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RE: committing a crime=bi-polar?!?! - 10/14/2006 3:31:57 AM

nefertari

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

subbie12 wrote 'Millions of people who really are diagnosed by a psychiatrist as being bi-polar'

Thinking about it, I don't really see where psychiatry comes into it. Bi-polar being a chemical inbalance is a treatable medical condition and not a mental illness as such and doesn't require psychiatric diagnosis.

It is a medical illness, but your family doctor or internist is not specially trained to diagnose that type of illness nor how best to treat it. It may be a medical illness but it has pyschological symptoms. If you read the DSM, the symptoms of so many psychiatric illnesses overlap and trying to diangnose it properly *does* require special training. That is why you see a psychiatrist, who is an M.D., by the way. Also, it is very common to have other psychological or psychiatric conditions co-morbid with bipolar, and any other mental illness.

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