Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (Full Version)

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TreSwank -> Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 9:29:17 PM)

     I had this pressing issue that's been tugging away at my noggin for a long time, but I've found that, because of the nature of my problem, I don't feel comfortable discussing it with any of my friends face-to-face...........and with the anonymity of the internet, maybe this would be an alright medium for me to vent without feeling awkward.

As a young bachelor, I've indulged in all the rites of passage that are norms for my age group: binge drinking, one-night-stands, all around prodigal behavior, etc.  For the last six months or so, I have had this weird feeling in my gut.......this fucking unexplainable longing for paternity.  I know that I'm not ready for children by a long shot, but every time I see a mother in a grocery store with her rambunctious little boys, or a young father giving his baby girl a piggy back ride on the sidewalk, it does something strange to me on an emotional level, and there's almost a feeling of jealousy towards people my age who already know the joys and love of parenthood.

About a month ago, I had a woman try her damn-well best to try and get me to fuck her without a condom, and shoot a load into her body.  Even though she told me that "her tubes were tied" (yeah, right), I didn't do it out of fear of pregnancy..................but in the back of my mind, I kind of wanted to follow her lead and just go with it.  I've never met a male friend in my age group who felt this kind of emotional longing to have children, and I can't really discuss it with other guys because, well............ I think you get the point.  Something just wells up in my heart when I think about procreation and having a child to shower with affection.........even though I can't even hold together a decent relationship for a passable amount of time.

What's wrong with me, here?  Do other men my age feel this way?   Believe me........I'm as crass they come, but even pictures of baby piglets in National Geographic elicit that "Awwww" reaction from Yours Truly. (LOL)   I'm not really this much of a wuss in public, but I need to know - Is my penis slowly morphing into a fucking vagina or what?




Archer -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 9:55:51 PM)

It's what is way back behind the camoflage of wanting to get laid. All those reasons we talk about wanting to get sex for are covers for the desire to procreate. Even if logicly we know we cannot actually fullfill a real father's shoes the desire to create life is biological.

Recognizing the desire to be a father a real father is part of becomming a mature man. The rest is bluff and camoflage.




amativedame -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 10:00:51 PM)

Awwwwwwww

TreSwank... its biology!  You whole purpose in life is to procreate the earth.  You just want to fullfill your societies version of it.  You are just ahead of your time for most people in your age range (compared to the surrounding generations anyway.)




Lordandmaster -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 10:05:00 PM)

Sometimes I think you overanalyze yourself.  There is no male who wouldn't be tempted to shoot his sperm into a woman who's a stranger.  Not all males would do it, of course, but if you're here, that means your ancestors passed down their genes for dozens of generations, and I'm POSITIVE that a couple of them produced children with unfamiliar women somewhere along the way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreSwank

I'm not really this much of a wuss in public, but I need to know - Is my penis slowly morphing into a fucking vagina or what?




TreSwank -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 10:12:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Sometimes I think you overanalyze yourself.  There is no male who wouldn't be tempted to shoot his sperm into a woman who's a stranger.  Not all males would do it, of course, but if you're here, that means your ancestors passed down their genes for dozens of generations, and I'm POSITIVE that a couple of them produced children with unfamiliar women somewhere along the way.




LOL.  Yeah......I don't see them all monogamously fucking through slitted sheets either.  Maybe I need to stop waxing sentimental over Gerber commercials, and start cutting down some trees, or gutting wild animals!  I know that a good part of it is biological, but I've felt few emotions in my life that are this powerful.  The only other thing I can compare it to was the one and ONLY time I really opened myself up emotionally in front of a girlfriend, and felt that tide of spiritual catharsis clean me up (because we all know that boys bottle it in until the breaking point).  I guess that I'll get over it sometime.....but I thought it was weird that it was happening at this point in my life.




Termyn8or -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 10:24:17 PM)

There is nothing wrong with you, this is a natural instinct, if it weren't, we would not be here. You must resist your urges though, you must find the right Woman first.

The right Woman can make you happy in ways you'll never know once she starts having kids. But then the wrong Woman can have kids too, and will likely exploit you. It is literally the difference between heaven and hell on Earth. If you want kids, they need a Mom and a Dad. These two people must like each other and agree to do this. Raise the kid. Or kids.

If you back out of the deal after having kids, you are committing a crime. You must be sure in the first place. You yourself also must be ready to do this.

For whatever reason, if it doesn't work out you tear it down. Guess who suffers the most ? The kids. Don't get me wrong, if you have any success at raising a family great. That is the greastest. Watching YOUR children grow, oh yes, wish I did that.

Think long and hard before though, if it doesn't work out you are inflicting pain and suffering on those you love the most. There is only one way to avoid that.

According to your profile you are 22, you have time. Use it to find Mrs. Right.

I think you could use a few more years of being free, remember, this is a one way trip.

T




KenDckey -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 10:27:44 PM)

Tre   I know it isn't the same as having your own, but have you tried volunteering at an orphanage or a parks recreation events or some other worthwhile group.   One of the perks I had when working for a parks dept was that I got to p lay with kids all day long.  I loved it.   I have worked with orphanages on 2 continents and loved it.




diamonddreamlove -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 10:27:49 PM)

Or enjoy the feelings that are coming out and postpone fullfilling them until you can properly care for the result!  They are cute but when they puke on you or poop on you or well there are many times they are not cute at all.  This coming from the mom of a son that turned 15 just a few minutes ago.  Yep he is a cutie and asleep so is easy to get along with right this minute.




juliaoceania -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 10:47:51 PM)

As someone that is experiencing the last "Maybe I want another baby" crisis because my biological clock keeps hormonally reminding me that the window is closing, well these feelings are passing. When I see a beautiful baby to coo and goo goo and gaa ga at, well I think about shitty diapers, sleepless nights, PTA meetings, the chickepox my son gave me when I was 30, etc.

I would suggest borrowing a child between the ages of 2 and 3 ongoing for about a week for about 6 to 8 hours at a time... this ought to convince you that these feelings, while pleasant and warm and fuzzy in a tickle me Elmo sort of way, are not something to act upon without thinking them through...

Not to mention that children usually come attached with mothers that you have to deal with one way or another.. whether it is with garnishing your wages or with actually living with them[:D]

I know you are not saying you want to have a yard monkey necessarily, but I thought I would provide a little serious levity

Seriously seriously... you certainly have the sense of humor necessary to be a great dad! When the time is very right of course




TreSwank -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 10:53:11 PM)

Diapers make me puke..........literally.  Baby poop is disgusting.  Ewwwwww. 

    I grew up my grandmother, who, back in the day, used to volunteer to temporarily take in foster children and orphaned babies.  She said that everytime she had to give one up to go back to wherever they went, she would stay up for the whole night crying.

       She once took in a little boy who had a habit of hiding his food around the house.  When she questioned him about it, he told her that, in his previous shitty home-life, hiding his food was a necessity, to make sure it wouldn't get taken by other, near starving children.  Oh, how the tears would flow from that woman's face when she told that story.

      I don't really think I could handle babies at this age.




juliaoceania -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 11:00:52 PM)

I love little unmentionables. Sinergy and I have talked about foster parenting because at least the little people would have a safe secure place to be when they were with us. Sometimes having a safe place to be even temporarily can completely change a life. Your grandmother must  be an amazing lady




TreSwank -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/17/2006 11:02:26 PM)

No........eventually something inside her got triggered to make her neurotic, aggressive, and mean, but she did have her moments.




cuddleheart50 -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/18/2006 3:25:39 AM)

Tre, you would make a wonderful father........Someday!  The urge to have children is in all of us,(or most of us anyway..lol)...Enjoy your freedom while you can, children have a way of putting a halt to all of that.  And, by the way, when its your own childrens poo-poo, its not all that bad.  [;)]




smilezz -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/18/2006 3:46:51 AM)

Surf the internet or radio stations.....look for The Tom Leykis show....listen.  That should curb your longing for a bit anyway  *grinz*   (most women hate this man, i think he's fucking hilarious)

http://www.blowmeuptom.com/

Happy Wednesday!

~smilezz~




agirl -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/18/2006 3:53:25 AM)

Or maybe you are pining for someone that is safe to love, who you can *shower with affection* and be loved back? Often girls have babies , not because they are pining for motherhood but because they want something to love and love them back.

Just a thought I had when reading your post. May have nothing to do with why you feel the way you do, but thought I'd mention it.

agirl




LadyEllen -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/18/2006 5:42:36 AM)

You do make me laugh Tre - sometimes with you, and sometimes at you I have to confess!

That last bit about your worries that you're becoming a wuss etc in particular; you become more like my Adrian every day! Its just the sort of thing he says, whenever his paper thin steely veneer is punctured, and his true self shines through the "real man" image he puts on. So many men wear that ridiculous armour to ward off accusations of being a wuss (etc), and the best place to find it is in a group of young guys like yourself, all competing to be the "realest man" and never betray that beneath is a person with frailties and feelings, that are according to "the rules", weaknesses only found in women.

The good news is, that for most this armour wears thinner as you get older and experience life as it is, and bits of it corrode away entirely, to reveal bits of your true self and make you into a man, rather than a "real man", who can acknowledge and demonstrate his feelings. This is what is happening to you Tre, and its a good thing. Dont try to fix the holes, let them be, let them grow a little bigger, because one day when the holes are just the right size, the right lady for you will see enough of your true self shining through those holes, and pick you to be with and to help her raise your children.

E




freyjasdottir -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/18/2006 7:28:19 AM)

Take the time nothing wrong with wanting to be a dad, heck I wish my kids' dad wanted to be one so your up a few scales on the evolutionary ladder.  See about volunteering somewhere with kids get a feel for what they can truly be and when you find that special someone to reproduce with you'll be just fine.




MasterFireMaam -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/18/2006 9:10:39 AM)

This totally ended up longer than I intended, but, sometimes, relaying stories that may or may not be like your own can help you in the thinking processes. I’m sure that this will spark some conversation (and flaming)…and that conversation might help you figure things out.

I’ve never had the urge to have children, so, in the end, I don’t totally understand it. Because of this, throughout my adult life, I’ve asked friends why they had kids. These are some of the answers I got and my rebuttals.                                           

To have someone love me. Learn to love yourself. This way, you understand that value of your own self-worth instead of basing it on the love of someone else. Relying on someone else to love you in order to validate your own self worth will ALWAYS lead to failure because no one will love you they way you want forever. Thus, your validation is taken away and you and you’re self-esteem are left to crash. Now, a dog or a cat…they are much more apt love you like that for their entire lives (provided you don’t mistreat them). Pets and children are a lot alike…but children will “grow up” and become their own person. There is no guarantee that they will love you once they do…or that you will even want them to!  

To have someone to love. Why do you have to have a child in order to do this? There are plenty of children…hell, there are plenty of adults…that you can love. Not to mention pets.  

To have something of me left in the world. Unless you are of high genetic quality, meaning one of those people who rarely gets sick or has a better physiology than most, like Lance Armstrong (his natural physiology is what made him the awesome competitor he was), there’s really no need for your specific genes. In fact, if you are of poor health or have genetically induced problems, like heart disease, mental illness or what not, the human race is a lot better off, genetically, if you don’t have children. (This is my primary logical reason for not having children, btw.) There are many ways to leave your mark on society and leave a legacy.

To be able to pass on learning/tradition. Again, why do you need a genetic child in order to do this? There are plenty of children…hell, plenty of adults…who could use your guidance. Adopt. Be a Scout leader. Join Big Brothers/Big Sisters. Be a counselor. Be a teacher. All these things have value and are perfect avenues for passing on your personal folklore.  

So I won’t die alone and to have someone to take care of me when I’m old (one of my mother’s reasons for having me). Hey, mom…I could die tomorrow. And, since you won’t get a phone, you’re most likely to die alone now. There are no guarantees about who will or will not be with you at the time of your death or even if your children will actually love you in the way you wish. My brother talks to mom about twice a year. She hasn’t seen her grandchildren in over a year. Honestly, you might as well go to Vegas with the odd you’re playing with.  

Because God said to “Go forth and multiply.” Ummm….that was, according to your records, about 6000 years ago. We didn’t have a whole lot of people then. It behooved us to do so. It no longer does. There will come a time, quicker than most think, that overpopulation will be a REAL issue. The projections about the consumption of fresh water alone, and the availability of such, are pretty grim. Did you know that this year's world grain harvest will fall short of consumption by 61 million tons? That’s a lot of starving babies and adults. Why subject new children to that? No, it won’t be YOUR baby…but…http://www.overpopulation.org/  

A child is the ultimate bond between two people. Why? Because you get to do all the above things as a team? How much you wanna bet that the person you have children with will still be with you in 20 years? 10 years? 5? How many people get divorced and then use this “ultimate bond” as a way to manipulate and hurt the other partner? We’ve all seen it. Children deserve better.

There is something intimate and empowering about being pregnant or your partner being pregnant. Hmmm…I have to admit that this is true for a great deal of people. And, empowerment can be hard to find. BUT, there ARE other ways to feel empowered. I’d argue that this isn’t a valid reason to have a child any more than because you want someone to love you is valid. Having a child is a huge responsibility. It’s heartbreaking how many unwanted children there are in the world and how they are used to manipulate. I grew up in rural NC. I can remember hearing a girl in high school say, literally, “Momma says it’s time to have another baby. We need the check.” WTF?

Having a child gives another soul the opportunity to come to this life and learn the lessons it needs to learn. This is the only valid reason I can think of to actually have a child. This is the only reason I’ve heard that focuses on the child, not the parent. But, many simply do not follow this spiritual path, and many more don’t find it valid if they recognize it exists. Even so, it’s not excuse to be irresponsible about overpopulation. Souls have an eternity to wait for their chance to learn.  

I know I seem WAY cynical…and I suppose I am. But, maybe, just maybe, because I don’t have the urge to have children, I’m able to look at it from an objective point of view. Having children for all but one of the above reasons just doesn’t make sense to me. It took me a LONG time to realize that my statement of, “Yeah, I’d like to have children someday” was me simply trying to avoid societal pressure that every women should not only have children, but actually WANT to have children. I don’t, in either case. You’d also be surprised at how many of the same friends I talked to admitted they’d not have had children if they knew then what they know now.

In the end, we can only decide for ourselves (right now). The desire to have children is a powerful urge…and we DO need to procreate in order to survive. But, I put forth that children should be precious, precious beings and experience the best life we can possibly provide, without us having ulterior, selfish motives. One day, we WILL have to have some kind of birth rate control. Perhaps then, children will be respected for the life that they are, not what they can do for us.

Master Fire




philosophy -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/18/2006 9:15:17 AM)

...a tricky subject for me, due to personal bad luck, but i would echo Ken's idea about volunteering to work with kids.......there really is nothing more important in this world than children, whether they're our own or other peoples......




raiken -> RE: Too Awkward to Discuss with Friends (10/18/2006 9:19:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

Tre, you would make a wonderful father........Someday!  The urge to have children is in all of us,(or most of us anyway..lol)...Enjoy your freedom while you can, children have a way of putting a halt to all of that.  And, by the way, when its your own childrens poo-poo, its not all that bad.  [;)]


It is true that life changes dramatically when children arrive.  But it doesn't have to come to a halt! LOL!  It just means that now we all have to wear our creative thinking caps more often and manage our time more stringently.  The fear of responsibility is the most difficult thing to get past.  once that is accomplished, life just goes on day by day, and we deal accordingly.  Children add a whole nutter dimension to life.  Teaching them, teaches ourselves.




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