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Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 9:50:50 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		well I'm from a small island in the middle of nowhere, I don't consider myself a racist of any kind but there're going to be parliamentory elections soon and well all the candidates from my political party are all natives..except there popped up this polish person among them all of a sudden. Is it wrong of me to think that the only people who should be allowed to get into the politics for the country should be natives?? I just don't think an immigrant should belong in a parliament for the country they moved to.., it would be different if she was born here but her parents were polish and so on..it just got me thinking, and I'm not only talking about this in connection to my own country but also just ..everywhere, is it wrong of me to think that political candidates should be natives but not immigrants?
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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 9:59:33 AM   
stef


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Status: offline 		Yes.

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 9:59:40 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane

well I'm from a small island in the middle of nowhere, I don't consider myself a racist of any kind but there're going to be parliamentory elections soon and well all the candidates from my political party are all natives..except there popped up this polish person among them all of a sudden. Is it wrong of me to think that the only people who should be allowed to get into the politics for the country should be natives?? I just don't think an immigrant should belong in a parliament for the country they moved to.., it would be different if she was born here but her parents were polish and so on..it just got me thinking, and I'm not only talking about this in connection to my own country but also just ..everywhere, is it wrong of me to think that political candidates should be natives but not immigrants?


The defining factor should be which candidate represents your values/interests.

If you genuinely believe an immigrant doesn't warrant a place in parliament (this is not a point of view I agree with) then the Polish candidate does not represent your interests and so the answer would be no you are not wrong.

My take on life is not to make race/immigration an issue as it is not important. The important issue is the value system held by the individual. What if the Polish candidate fully believes in the issues that you hold dear?

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 10:02:33 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		No, I don't think it's wrong.
I have dual American/ Irish Citizenship which means I can live and work anywhere in the E.U.
If I moved to Ireland or Poland for example and decided I wanted to run for political office I think they'd probably take a very dim view of "an American" interfering in their politics!
Here in the U.S. I've noticed that most Legal immigrants really shy away from politics while illegal aliens are attempting to "legitimise" themselves somehow through politics and of course the Bush admin. does nothing to enforce our immigration laws.

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 10:03:59 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		explained it wrong..kind of, I think it's okay that they are in politics..but I mean, not to lead the party I think there should be natives that actually take the lead.

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 10:10:48 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane

explained it wrong..kind of, I think it's okay that they are in politics..but I mean, not to lead the party I think there should be natives that actually take the lead.


In that case Missy, to answer the question my advice is to ask yourself what is driving your belief that an immigrant should not take the lead. If you had to list 3 key reasons why an immigrant should not lead the party what would they be?

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 11:23:39 AM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		fast reply...I agree with Stef

(Don't worry Stef, I am sure everything will be back to normal and we will be on opposite sides of an issue again shortly)

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 12:04:04 PM   
toservez


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From: All over now in Minnesota
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

No, I don't think it's wrong.
I have dual American/ Irish Citizenship which means I can live and work anywhere in the E.U.
If I moved to Ireland or Poland for example and decided I wanted to run for political office I think they'd probably take a very dim view of "an American" interfering in their politics!
Here in the U.S. I've noticed that most Legal immigrants really shy away from politics while illegal aliens are attempting to "legitimise" themselves somehow through politics and of course the Bush admin. does nothing to enforce our immigration laws.


Really sorry to hijack the thread but I could not leave this one alone. Legal immigrants/newly citizens are on the whole very active politically and very passionate about things like voting. The reason why you may not see this is because most of these citizens do not have money or connections to run for an office or get TV time, and like all the other citizens, have plenty of other issues they are concerned about and are more then a one issue cartoon characters.  The reason illegal immigrants are on TV whenever the topic comes up is because it makes for better TV. If something bad happens over in Ireland, they do not go out and interview Russian's they look for people from Ireland.

Back to the OP, I think what you feel is totally natural. A positive spin might be is that they live there by choice, hopefully, and maybe embrace your way of life more passionately then people that our from there. Sort of like a former smoker being more zealot against smoking then a person who never has as a lame example.

I think in the end it would be about the person's character and where he stands on the issues and his vision. Unfortunately figuring that out in a politician is some kind of tough.



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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 12:14:07 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

Back to the OP, I think what you feel is totally natural. A positive spin might be is that they live there by choice, hopefully, and maybe embrace your way of life more passionately then people that our from there. Sort of like a former smoker being more zealot against smoking then a person who never has as a lame example.

Very true. In Britain, Poles are making the most of opportunities they are seeing for the first time. Here, we take them for granted.

I think in the end it would be about the person's character and where he stands on the issues and his vision. Unfortunately figuring that out in a politician is some kind of tough.

What about the candidate's election pledge/manifesto? Surely, these are available in order to analyse policies?




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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 12:24:22 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

No, I don't think it's wrong.
I have dual American/ Irish Citizenship which means I can live and work anywhere in the E.U.
If I moved to Ireland or Poland for example and decided I wanted to run for political office I think they'd probably take a very dim view of "an American" interfering in their politics!
Here in the U.S. I've noticed that most Legal immigrants really shy away from politics while illegal aliens are attempting to "legitimise" themselves somehow through politics and of course the Bush admin. does nothing to enforce our immigration laws.


Really sorry to hijack the thread but I could not leave this one alone. Legal immigrants/newly citizens are on the whole very active politically and very passionate about things like voting. The reason why you may not see this is because most of these citizens do not have money or connections to run for an office or get TV time, and like all the other citizens, have plenty of other issues they are concerned about and are more then a one issue cartoon characters.  The reason illegal immigrants are on TV whenever the topic comes up is because it makes for better TV. If something bad happens over in Ireland, they do not go out and interview Russian's they look for people from Ireland.

Back to the OP, I think what you feel is totally natural. A positive spin might be is that they live there by choice, hopefully, and maybe embrace your way of life more passionately then people that our from there. Sort of like a former smoker being more zealot against smoking then a person who never has as a lame example.

I think in the end it would be about the person's character and where he stands on the issues and his vision. Unfortunately figuring that out in a politician is some kind of tough.





toserve, I didn't mean that legal immigrants who become U.S. Citizens wearn't very active in making sure that they voted on election day, simply that not a lot of them run for public office like Arnold Swartzennegger.

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 12:30:12 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, it's wrong of you.  Political candidates should come from whatever groups are permitted to run for office under your nation's constitution.  Normally that includes naturalized citizens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane

is it wrong of me to think that political candidates should be natives but not immigrants?

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 12:39:24 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		The issue for missy is she does not wish to see an immigrant running a party. That is her personal taste. While I wholeheartedly disagree and can't see the logic in this missy is entitled to vote for the party/candidate which represents her wishes.

You just have to hope that the wider electorate does not make it an issue. Otherwise, you are potentially missing out on the best candidate just because he/she is Polish.

This is the problem in countries like Britain and the US, we think we have more to offer than everyone else. The irony is, we are the two countries in the developed world with the high rates of drug and alcohol abuse, serious crime rates, highest wealth gaps etc. Sometimes the wise move is just to hold your hands up and say external influences wouldn't go amiss.

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 1:12:18 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		On second glance, I may be wrong. It's not clear if missy is saying she believes it is wrong in principle or saying it is not her personal taste to vote for an immigrant leading a party. I'm now leaning towards wrong in principle. If this is the case, then yes, it is wrong.

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 1:21:49 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yes, it's wrong of you.  Political candidates should come from whatever groups are permitted to run for office under your nation's constitution.  Normally that includes naturalized citizens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane

is it wrong of me to think that political candidates should be natives but not immigrants?



Oh sure, I'd want some naturalized citizen from al queada running for office in the Democratic Party.

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 2:04:59 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Yes, it's wrong of you.  Political candidates should come from whatever groups are permitted to run for office under your nation's constitution.  Normally that includes naturalized citizens.


I completely agree.

What is the problem?  Are people afraid of new or foreign ideas? 


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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 2:18:41 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Then tell your Congressman you want a constitutional amendment barring naturalized citizens from holding elective office.

Or, you know, you could always move to another country if you don't like the constitution in force in this one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yes, it's wrong of you.  Political candidates should come from whatever groups are permitted to run for office under your nation's constitution.  Normally that includes naturalized citizens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane

is it wrong of me to think that political candidates should be natives but not immigrants?



Oh sure, I'd want some naturalized citizen from al queada running for office in the Democratic Party.

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 6:30:52 PM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		yoyoyoyoyo soooo you,  Northern Gent :), will  get my answer then
#1 the ones that are in the lead of the parliament are...supposed to you know..represent the country. I think that should be done by natives, not by immigrants. Sure if the guy was BORN here..even though their parents or whoever aren't from here I think it's okay. I on the other hand don't aruge that they should be in politics in general. I just think that the faces that actually stand in front of this all should be natives.
# 2 I believe people  who are born here..have more..."correct"  feel for the country than immigrants
# 3 I just don't think immigrants are just way too different..in opinions..thoughts..and just everything when it comes to running the country. I mean sure they're great but like..if you're born here..and you go to school here..etcetcetc you grow up in this environment and become attached to it, an immigrant just..can't bond in the same way, it's just impossible really..unless the immigrant was maybe a 4 yo when they immigrated. anyhow..
I mean if I were to be involved into politics in china, I'd never take a stand in the front row I just think it's so far away I mean I have nothing in common really well I'm human, guess that's something we have in common but I don't have the feel I'll never be a chinese no matter for how long I'll live there I will never be one who has it in your blood you know....
need to think about a better answer tomorrow i think will let this do for now...g'night


< Message edited by MissyRane -- 10/20/2006 6:40:08 PM >

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 7:07:58 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I wonder if they'd even let me into Pakistan then make me a citizen?
Then,...would they let me run for public office as a Christian?

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 7:11:38 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		The President...by law..in the United States has to be Native.

Thats why ol' Schwartz-a-nazi can't run for President.

Im sure a lot of Neo-Conservatives would just love to set up a Con-Con (Constitutional convention) to have that law changed.

I don't want some foreign usurper as the leader of the United states.

Governor or mayor...fine.

As long as he/she has been here most of their lives.




< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 10/20/2006 7:12:30 PM >

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/20/2006 7:43:13 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Check out their constitution.  You never know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I wonder if they'd even let me into Pakistan then make me a citizen?
Then,...would they let me run for public office as a Christian?

(in reply to popeye1250)
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