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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 2:28:42 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane

yoyoyoyoyo soooo you,  Northern Gent :), will  get my answer then
#1 the ones that are in the lead of the parliament are...supposed to you know..represent the country. I think that should be done by natives, not by immigrants. Sure if the guy was BORN here..even though their parents or whoever aren't from here I think it's okay. I on the other hand don't aruge that they should be in politics in general. I just think that the faces that actually stand in front of this all should be natives.
# 2 I believe people  who are born here..have more..."correct"  feel for the country than immigrants
# 3 I just don't think immigrants are just way too different..in opinions..thoughts..and just everything when it comes to running the country. I mean sure they're great but like..if you're born here..and you go to school here..etcetcetc you grow up in this environment and become attached to it, an immigrant just..can't bond in the same way, it's just impossible really..unless the immigrant was maybe a 4 yo when they immigrated. anyhow..
I mean if I were to be involved into politics in china, I'd never take a stand in the front row I just think it's so far away I mean I have nothing in common really well I'm human, guess that's something we have in common but I don't have the feel I'll never be a chinese no matter for how long I'll live there I will never be one who has it in your blood you know....
need to think about a better answer tomorrow i think will let this do for now...g'night



It seems to me missy you're saying that you do not believe immigrants have the best interests of the US at heart (because they haven't been born there and thus aren't attached to the environment).

Personally, I don't think the fact that someone has spent say 15 years less in the US will render that person any less interested in serving your interests/values and the wider society.

I can see from your profile you're only 19 so a long way to go. My advice: do not make race and immigration an issue - by and large, these are the preserve of those gripped by personal frustration with life. They need a scapegoat. Put it to one side and concentrate on far more important matters such as which candidate is offering the best policies.





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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 3:46:27 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		race? oi there could be a black yellow brown person leading..as long as they were born here so I'm not really focusing on the race, I just think that people who are born here originally have better insight and are better in contact with the nation's...views..I don't really know how to explain it. At least I think they should've been here for yeah..most of their lives I wouldn't really mind if they had migrated as kids..this person on the other hand has lived her since 1991 and personally I just don't think that's one hell of a time to actually go n stand for one of the leading position. Anyhow I just wanted to opinions, and like I said I don't mind them being in the parliament or whatever I just don't feel they should be the leaders since it's the parliament of a nation, e.g. if only immigrants ended up leading a parliament or a political party, it would really make me start thinking.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 4:17:29 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane

race? oi there could be a black yellow brown person leading..as long as they were born here so I'm not really focusing on the race, I just think that people who are born here originally have better insight and are better in contact with the nation's...views..I don't really know how to explain it. At least I think they should've been here for yeah..most of their lives I wouldn't really mind if they had migrated as kids..this person on the other hand has lived her since 1991 and personally I just don't think that's one hell of a time to actually go n stand for one of the leading position. Anyhow I just wanted to opinions, and like I said I don't mind them being in the parliament or whatever I just don't feel they should be the leaders since it's the parliament of a nation, e.g. if only immigrants ended up leading a parliament or a political party, it would really make me start thinking.


1991 is a fair amount of time. What makes you think this person is culturally out of touch with the US? 

Again, policy is what counts missy. You could have the smoothest talking-head in the world running the show but if there is no substance (in the form of sound policy) to support the style then there will be no progress.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 4:42:01 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well first of all I'm not in the US but I would have the same opinion if I was in the US anyhow;
Of course policy matters but like I said it's just my personal opinion that I do think that leaders of..this kind (I'm not sure what to call it) should be natives they do stand there representing our country, I'm not saying immigrants are necessarily unqualified I just don't think they should be the representatives. There are around 15 people..or something like that..that are in the front row and then there're bunches of other people who're working doing their thing I simply think that these 15 people should be natives or at least they should´ve moved here in their childhood. Like was stated earlier it's in the law that the president of the US is supposed to be native. I totally agree on that one, a president should always be a native.
Here the president is 99% less powerful than the president of the US. The parliament here is the absolute center of gravity and therefore I think the representatives should be natives. It's a different regime. If the council on the other hand wouldn't be as powerful as it is then perhaps I wouldn't be as against it.

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 5:00:51 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane

Well first of all I'm not in the US

Well, there you go. That'll teach me for sticking my beak in! For the purposes of this discussion let's just pretend you're in the US
 
but I would have the same opinion if I was in the US anyhow;

Right you are.

Of course policy matters but like I said it's just my personal opinion that I do think that leaders of..this kind (I'm not sure what to call it) should be natives they do stand there representing our country, I'm not saying immigrants are necessarily unqualified I just don't think they should be the representatives. There are around 15 people..or something like that..that are in the front row and then there're bunches of other people who're working doing their thing I simply think that these 15 people should be natives or at least they should´ve moved here in their childhood. Like was stated earlier it's in the law that the president of the US is supposed to be native. I totally agree on that one, a president should always be a native.
Here the president is 99% less powerful than the president of the US. The parliament here is the absolute center of gravity and therefore I think the representatives should be natives. It's a different regime. If the council on the other hand wouldn't be as powerful as it is then perhaps I wouldn't be as against it.

Well, let's say your next President is a native and turns out to be a complete waste of time? Would you wish you had put the native/immigrant issue to one side?
 


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 5:13:31 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well personally I couldn't vote for the president we've had the past years, nor would I have voted for him because..personally I think he's an ass, with all respect. The only reason he won the elections back then was because of his wife who was just...the most amazing woman...unfortunately nobody has decided to compete against him the past elections..so he's been chosen without election the past terms. A representative for a country should always be a native, and when it comes to elections, not all of the candidates can be assholes. You just gotta hope for the best. And the president has no actual power here anyway. He's just here to say hello he doesn't even have an actual veto. I'm sorry but I just think some positions shouldn't be available for anyone.

< Message edited by MissyRane -- 10/21/2006 5:17:44 AM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 5:13:36 AM   
blackslave22


Posts: 1
Joined: 1/19/2006
Status: offline 		this one is easy (at least where the US is concerned).
No taxsation without representation.

You don't want to have someone running for public office? Make sure they don't have to pay taxes.
The founding principles of this nation have been watered down so much, it's not even funny any more.

Even worse, we are cheating legals out of their rights with every step we take.
Green card holders have no right to collect social security once they go home, yet we collect their dues.
You can beat up any legal immigrant and if they hit back, they get deported (if convicted).

If immigrants would know up front what they have to face in the land of equality and the free, i am sure they would think it over a few times before considering adding value to our corrupt, selfish, greedy society.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 5:50:46 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane

Well personally I couldn't vote for the president we've had the past years, nor would I have voted for him because..personally I think he's an ass, with all respect. The only reason he won the elections back then was because of his wife who was just...the most amazing woman...unfortunately nobody has decided to compete against him the past elections..so he's been chosen without election the past terms. A representative for a country should always be a native, and when it comes to elections, not all of the candidates can be assholes. You just gotta hope for the best. And the president has no actual power here anyway. He's just here to say hello he doesn't even have an actual veto. I'm sorry but I just think some positions shouldn't be available for anyone.


Well missy, you've made your case. To answer the initial question, I think you're wrong. The reason being, you're potentially losing the best man/woman for the job simply because he/she has been in the country for a limited period of time (15 years).

Of course, it's your call what you do with your vote  



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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 5:57:39 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I am canadian, and here every office is open to any citizen over the age of 18 (actually there might be an age restriction on the Senate, but that is an appointed body) including the governor general (vice-regal acting head of state). In fact our present G-G was born in Haiti and came here as a refugee.
This is the way all countries should be run, the requirement for somebody to be native-born is stupid. Being born here does not make me any more able to govern than being born anywhere else.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 7:18:46 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Just remember the last time an Austrian managed to get involved in the politics of another sovereign nation!

The Poles are in the EU - Poles are permitted to migrate, live and work in the UK under the EU rules. From that, then it would be odd to say that a Pole living and working here in the UK should not be allowed to participate in the election process which determines how the country is governed - it affects him/her and he/she has permission to take up any employment or activity he/she wishes in the UK, under the law of course.

At the same time though, I do think it should require some sort of permanent residency in the UK - say 12 months living here, to prevent one person from standing for election in every EU state, all at once. Alongside that, if the person wants to stand in the UK, then he/she has to forfeit the right to also influence or participate in the process in his/her origin state. Otherwise, we could easily run into a complete mess, and never know who voted where and when, and how many times.

In the end, all I'm really interested in is a fair and open representative democracy, and the quality of the candidates/desirability of their policies. Their origins are not that important. In my home town we have a lot of Poles who remained here after fighting in the RAF in WWII and settled - we already had a fair few excellent polticians from the original settlers, and now have local party leaders who are their descendants. All that's important for their validity is that they contribute to and are invested in the interests of the country, and are able and suitable to represent the interests of the people.
E

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RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 7:37:55 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah I admit it's kinda difficult to actually say no...but I have never ever seen the person before..never mind heard of her and well as long as they speak the language then I suppose it's not totally horrible, but then there are also so so many that simply refuse to adapt and give up some of their habits to fit into the society and that's what kind of makes me hold back and gosh I mean if they were to start taking the lead omygoodlytoodlessness!

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 7:42:21 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

gosh I mean if they were to start taking the lead omygoodlytoodlessness!

What exactly would be the problem with that???
remember, in order for someone to lead, others must follow.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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(in reply to MissyRane)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 7:51:06 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		A person who refuses to adapt to the society/culture they migrated to and refuses to learn the language?
I'm not even going to answer that one.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Immigrants into politics.. - 10/21/2006 7:57:42 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I'm sorry, but I fail to see what difference the language a person speaks makes to their suitability to govern, nor do i see the relevance of their cultural practices, barring the candidate being an old school Papuan cannibal or something equally outrageous.

There isn't much danger in a person who absolutely does not speak the local language at all actually getting elected, so that is sort of a moot point don't you think?


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to MissyRane)
Profile   Post #: 34
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