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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/13/2006 4:20:25 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		Yoo Hoo, Katy?

I have a question for you. We have some seriou injuries over here, as I am sure you know and it loks like Ben Watson may be out for the year. Patriots had try outs today and one of the TE is Walter Rasby, former TE with the Steelers. < 2005>
What can you < or any one else> tell me about him? Hank Poteat worked outpretty well here and of course Mike Vrabel has shined.
* crossing my fingers for a good review*

Here is a funny one for you all: Pats released Doug Gabriel yesterday. We got him from the Raiders for a 5th round pick. He was signed today by, none other than, the Raiders. Talk about the Raiders having a win/win situation. Damn pirates ! lol

                                                        mbmbn

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/13/2006 4:46:41 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I'm sorry I don't know about Walter Rasby.
How weird about Doug Gabriel.

For Level:
If you wanna crown them then crown their ass.....
(actually I think that Brian Urlacher rocks and so will Rex Grossman, with more time and *training*).

< Message edited by KatyLied -- 12/13/2006 5:24:07 PM >

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/13/2006 7:45:27 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

If the Colts' offense hadn't been so spectacular in 2005, their defense would have given up a ton of yards. The only reason why they didn't was that their offense didn't allow the other teams' offenses on the field.


Your argument went a bit adrift, because above you specifically mention TOP as a key reason the Colts did not give up a ton of yars, when in fact TOP was not the big factor. Below you toss TOP overboard, but in fact you were the one to cite it in the first place.

quote:

Time of possession is a much less useful statistic, for calculating the efficiency of an offense or defense, than plays from scrimmage. There are many factors that go into time of possession, and they don't translate into how well a defense stops plays. Yards allowed per play tells you how well a defense stops plays.


The original point was that the Colts defense would have given up a boatload more points had not the Colts offense dominated games in TOP, which it did not. I have conceded the yards per play element of the Colts defense with two foundational explanations: 1) Teams playing from behind rack up a lot of meaningless yards, especially when they don't score; 2) The Colts defense was built to bend and not break.

quote:

Points allowed is not a direct measure of a defense, either, but it doesn't sound like you're going to be convinced of any view other than that the 2005 Colts had a great defense.


No, you cannot convince me that points allowed is not a great barometer of a defense, this is true. Yes, I am not persuaded that the Colts defense in 2005 cost them their Super Bowl Run. It was actually the offense that malfunctioned v. the Steelers.

**The Colts managed one first down — on a one-handed catch by Harrison — and 25 yards in the first quarter.

**In the first half, the Colts had 123 yds to the Steelers' 193.

**James was held to 56 yards rushing on 13 carries.

**Manning was sacked five times.

**The Colts were 3-13 on third down conversions.

**The Colts vaunted offense lost the TOP battle 25:08 - 34:52

**Meanwhile the Steelers ran the ball 42 times for 112 yards and a paltry 2.7 yards per rush. Basically Pitt road out its first quarter 14 pt. blitz for a victory, as it only managed 7 more points over the last three quarters of the game.



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/13/2006 8:03:18 PM >

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/13/2006 7:56:11 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		We agree that the Colts' defense was better last year than it has been this year.

I don't think we agree about anything else.  I don't agree that their defense was great; I don't even agree that it was good.  Good defenses don't give up 4.4 yards per carry or 67.3% pass-completion percentages.

I never said anything about time of possession; I think when I said the Colts' offense kept the other team off the field, that was unclear, and you thought I was talking about time of possession.  I actually don't pay attention to time of possession.  I was talking about plays from scrimmage, and I already showed that the Colts had nearly a game's worth of extra plays from scrimmage.

I'll admit that going back and saying "this is the reason why such-and-such a team didn't win the Super Bowl" is a little artificial--if Vanderjagt had hit that damned field goal in the AFC championship game, they probably would have won the Super Bowl--but I think it's pretty clear that if the Colts really did have a great or even good defense, they would have won the Super Bowl, because they'd be giving up more like 3.7 yards per carry, and more like 58% pass-completion percentage.  None of their games would even be in doubt.

As for why points allowed is not a direct measure of a defense's quality: it doesn't take field position into account.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 12/13/2006 7:57:43 PM >

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/13/2006 9:45:09 PM   
cloudboy


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It has been a good debate.

Chris Collinswowth said JAX brought its tight ends and lineman around to the middle to help blow out Colt defenders up the middle, a tactic that will likely be duplicated by other teams until IND can find a way to stop it. He also said that the Colts defense is built to play against teams coming from behind, aka, to rush the passer and to have speed for pass coverage packages. Unfortunately, such a squad is ill equipped to play from behind.

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/14/2006 8:13:13 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
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Status: offline 		That is definitely true--although their pass rush has been weak this year too for some reason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

He also said that the Colts defense is built to play against teams coming from behind, aka, to rush the passer and to have speed for pass coverage packages.

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 4:04:39 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Cowboys vs Falcons tonight, NFL network.
Does Romo get it done?  Does Vick have a good game?

Jim Mora is in hot water for some comments he made about wanting to coach for his alma mater, he says he was joking:
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/football/cs-0612160089dec16,1,4237966.story?coll=cs-college-print




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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 5:42:46 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Cowboys 14, Falcons 0            2nd quarter
 
so far, so good...........

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 6:16:39 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		My how things have changed since your last comment.....

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 6:26:57 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		21-21.
 
What is it, a freakin basketball game??  Every time I look at the pc, someone else has scored.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 6:27:52 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		It's a good game.  I know you don't have nfl network.
There was a double fumble.  Yay, excitement.


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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 6:43:30 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Yep, I'm following it on Yahoo sports, it updates every minute or so. And I'm watching Will Ferrell in "Elf" lol....

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 6:59:59 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Falcons 28 Dallas 24
 
Gramattica just hit a 48 yard FG

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 7:28:12 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		Is Ron Mexico playing QB or RB?

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 7:47:52 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		LOL, he's trying to do both.
 
Dallas looks like they have this one sewn up.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 8:01:39 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Gramattica just hit a 48 yard FG


Huge sighs of relief all over the land.  I had to do family stuff and missed the entire 2nd half.  sigh.


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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/16/2006 11:43:08 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Shit, I slept through the game.

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/17/2006 5:44:01 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Cowboys win, but at least one of them lost respect. Terrell Owens admits to spitting in DeAngelo Hall's face:
 
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/football/nfl/san_francisco_49ers/16258640.htm

As former Cowboy great Darren Woodson said, it's disgusting, and I wouldn't have a problem if Owens was kicked off the team.

< Message edited by Level -- 12/17/2006 5:45:35 AM >

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 538
RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/17/2006 6:10:15 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		They discussed that last night and he (T.O.) was interviewed after the game.  "It was a situation where he kept bugging me and getting in my face."  Don't get me started, I can't stand T.O. and I think he's a toxic person to have on a team.

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RE: NFL Sob (or Brag) Thread - 12/17/2006 7:22:41 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		Jaws and Hoge broke down the Colts' defense this morning; Jaws said he could spend the whole show pointing out problems with it.

They picked on LB Cato June to illustrate a point of a lack of physical play -- they showed him being blocked off the line by a WR -- he should have been able to toss that squirt out of the way and make the play, but instead he was taken completely out as if he had been hit by a fullback. Next they showed the TE taking out a 240 lb DE, and June was out of position to make a play.

Jaws also mentioned poor tackling, and that the D-line, LBs and secondary just aren't synchronized.  They weren't optimistic about Indy's D doing anything against the Bengals.


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