RE: Some thoughts on punishment (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 8:28:21 PM)

FR

This is why I avoid punitive dynamics in which corporeal punishments are inflicted on me, it would not be effective for me and would make me angry, resentful, and punishment inflicted on my genital region meant to hurt me would probably make me want to inflict the same damage back. I do not know exactly what bad physical repercussions can happen with being whipped like this.

I know some people are into this, I would personally find this abusive to me and my body.


But I am not other people, and others do what works for them. I am glad this thread was posted so that less experienced submissives will think about what corporeal punishment means to them and if it should be a hard limit for them. I understand some people find it to be freeing and it serves some kind of psychological purpose, so it is valuable for food for thought...




defiantbadgirl -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/25/2006 8:55:40 PM)

Corporal punishment can cause me to be resentful as well unless it's handled a certain way. To me, it's fine for the dom to remain detached during a punishment, but as soon as the last swat lands, I need to be cuddled. If a master failed to do this I would resent him.




ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 5:19:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I just hoped he wiped his screen clean after he posted this.


Good morning.

Why would that be?

Regards,
EO




ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 5:21:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

Personally, i would hate to 'read' what would have happened if she had wrecked your car. [&:]


Why, we would go car shopping, her naked and chained/cuffed to the old wreck. [:D]

Might get us a discount...

Regards,
EO




Kalira -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 5:32:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExtremeOwnerIL

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

Personally, i would hate to 'read' what would have happened if she had wrecked your car. [&:]


Why, we would go car shopping, her naked and chained/cuffed to the old wreck. [:D]

Might get us a discount...

Regards,
EO


OMG LMAO

Hmm, actually, that sounds like fun [8D]




ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:19:45 AM)

A very interesting discussion so far, and I do honestly thank you all for responding. I have been removed for quite a while from the "public" scene (whether discussions boards like these or public play spaces) and I forgot about the myriad of feelings and emotions that can be raised with a single issue.

juliaoceania's response prompted me to write this, as the note about novices is a good one to remember. However, I wanted to note that corporal punishments do not necessarily have to be a hard limit, but also an acceptable and useful tool for our "flow".

I'd like to offer a bit about our dynamic, perhaps for perspective.  We have been together for 3 years now. We met as friends, grew to respect each other and then ventured into the Master/slave dynamic. By no means has it been a quick ramp-up, nor has it been without its tough moments. We are both adults with daily jobs, "unmentionables" (how did that phrase come about?), hobbies (my stock car racing hobby soaks up a lot of time), the dog, the house and all the other stresses of Real Life. What we have learned is to balance our lives with the mindset and activity of our dynamic (our "flow") - both the rewarding "fun" and the responsibilities that the dynamic entails.

She is my most precious thing and although I may speak of her as property, as a thing, as my slave - there is not a moment that I wouldn't hesitate to protect, defend and improve her life - yet in the context of our dynamic. She worships me and I adore her.

Yet there is a dynamic that we both understand and value. I understand her need for pain, her need for "absolution" if you will, and her quirks, behaviours and motivators. She understands my sadism, my protective Daddy side and she trusts me, not through a blind trust, but a trust that we've developed over these 3 years - through experience, discussion and growth.

That dynamic allows us to explore corporal punishment as a "purging" and as a "motivator". Simply put, it works for her, and for me, to use corporal punishment to motivate her to not forget things, to correct behaviors that I don't approve of, to help her mindset. That isn't to say that I beat her daily (although the erotica is enjoyable to read, I would need the arms of a football player or tennis player to achieve that), but that in the times and situations where she is aware I may use corporal as correction, then I do.

The detachment comes as an aspect of my sadism and my Daddy side - an interesting mix! I can be detached during the punishment, and then after, depending on the situation, I apply the aftercare. Usually it is in the form of putting her head on my shoulder or leg, my hands in her hair, and we have a small talk about the situation and how we'll move on. I always leave her with the understanding that it's OVER - there is no further need for her to feel guilty, and that I will not be bringing this up again.

So, although corporal may seem edgy or extreme, and for some it is, for others it is a valuable and beneficial way of exploring and supporting a dynamic. Here, as with anything else, experience, maturity and knowing/understanding each other is key.

And to me, that's both our responsibilities, both Owner and owned.

Regards,
EO





slavegirl1969 -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:20:10 AM)

Okay,am slightly embarrassed to admit my ignorance, but here goes, what are kegels?




ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:28:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirl1969

Okay,am slightly embarrassed to admit my ignorance, but here goes, what are kegels?


http://www.childbirth.org/articles/kegel.html

It is an exercise to strengthen pelvic muscles. It can have several beneficial results, especially related to sexual and sensual activities.

If you've ever suddenly stopped the flow of your urine by "squeezing" your pelvic muscles, you've done a "Kegel". To do them correctly involves a more slow and deliberate activity. Five seconds holding is a usual approach.

Regards,
EO




slavegirl1969 -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:33:45 AM)

thank you for clarifying.
 




Mercnbeth -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:38:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExtremeOwnerIL

..."unmentionables" (how did that phrase come about?)...



because it is allegedly against the TOS here at CM to "mention" them...hence the term.

an excerpt from the General Guidelines:
 
quote:

...Subjects which are unacceptable regardless of circumstance include, but are not limited to - minors,...




ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:40:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
because it is allegedly against the TOS here at CM to "mention" them...hence the term.

an excerpt from the General Guidelines:


Ah, thank you.

Regards,
EO




SirLordTrainer -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:43:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExtremeOwnerIL

Punishment was something I had a hard time dealing with at first, but now I accept its appropriate role in our dynamic. All part of me owning my property.


As did I initially, but quickly realized that by not enforcing punishment, I do not only her an injustice but do so to Myself as well. Be it mentally or physically, depending on the infraction. As I do believe in doling out the appropriate punishment according to the offense.




agirl -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 8:29:42 AM)

I'm used to that type of *punishment* although, I prefer to call it a *penalty*, after spending time reading these forums. I am actually *punished* extremely rarely.

I don't really obtain *absolution* from being beaten.....I am paying the price for a choice I made. I don't get *tea and biccies* afterwards either. It's a situation dealt with, that's it. I don't resent HIM for doling out something that I was already aware would occur. When I'm gritting my teeth or crying, oh yes, I regret it, though.

There are times that he'd rather not have to, and when it occurs, I'd rather he didn't either...but that's down to me, really.

The reasons for my choices aren't ignored but if you know full well that * you do this, I do that*, there's little to complain about.

agirl










juliaoceania -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 8:45:16 AM)

quote:

juliaoceania's response prompted me to write this, as the note about novices is a good one to remember. However, I wanted to note that corporal punishments do not necessarily have to be a hard limit, but also an acceptable and useful tool for our "flow".


I have read many submissives that derive something from corporal punishment, I am not condemning the practice out-of-hand, but I just felt that the opposite position should be illustrated so that people new to the lifestyle can make sure they set boundaries and limits appropriate to them and how they feel. It is not necessary to have this as a part of a dynamic, not all use corporal punishments. It is not a "given" that one would have to tolerate such as having their genital region battered with a pain stick. It would not make me one iota more submissive to have to endure this in my mind, and I think that this perspective is important to share.

On the other hand, being that he does not hit me to discipline me  means I must be even more vigilant in my submission in my mind. I must make sure that I comply with what is important to him, because not doing so in a repeated way is demonstrating that I do not place a high value on the dynamic. If I demonstrated that behavior often enough and unrepentently, he would just dump me... that is a more painful prospect than even a pain stick. I am responsible for my own motivation to my own submission in many ways. He inspires me to submit, but I am motivated to submit regardless being it is who I am. I am not one for testing him or his dominance, that just is not me. As time goes by I desire to give more of it to him, not less.

He has no desire to mix pain into discipline. He has not disciplined me. He may never do this, but I have negotiated the right for him to do so away, he may discipline me in a unphysical way.  I made sure this was one of the first things I talked with him about because I tended to reject punitive strict profiles in which my submission would be beat into me... and I read many like this.

People do what works for them, more power to them.

I was not treated that way as a child, I was an extremely obedient child. I think there are many submissives that this is true for... they should pick their dominants carefully, it is all individual after all. There are many that derive a sense of attonement from punishment, that the slate it wiped clean. I can imagine this is a deep thing for them, and I am not poo pooing it. Many of us do not have that attonement thing going on.

Edited to add, I am a masochist, and we have our own edges we explore that others find slightly nuts... but that is play, not punishment...I enjoy it.




ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 11:42:21 AM)

quote:

It is not a "given" that one would have to tolerate such as having their genital region battered with a pain stick. It would not make me one iota more submissive to have to endure this in my mind, and I think that this perspective is important to share.

quote:

There are many that derive a sense of attonement from punishment, that the slate it wiped clean. I can imagine this is a deep thing for them, and I am not poo pooing it. Many of us do not have that attonement thing going on.

Edited to add, I am a masochist, and we have our own edges we explore that others find slightly nuts... but that is play, not punishment...I enjoy it.


I offer my opinion that these statements seem at odds. You use strong words to clearly illustrate your discomfort and dislike of physical punishment - indeed, using strong words as "battered" makes what I did sound abusive. While I have no problem with anyone's opinion - if we are speaking to "novices" then it must be made clear that things done within a RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink) perspective are not abusive.

Kindest regards,
EO




Dnomyar -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 11:43:10 AM)

From my own experience(childhood) corporal punishment has its limits. After so many beatings you get immune to them. My attitude got to be that he would tire out before I gave in. I've know some slaves that would leave their Masters if they didnt get a good beating.  Im more into the mind game type of disipline. Whatever type your slave/sub responds to go for it.




SlaveAkasha -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 12:05:13 PM)

I don't see anything wrong with what you did for a punishment.  This wasn't the first time you had tried, it was after multiple times of attempting to correct the behavior by other means.  That is how my Master does it also.  There was something I did last time we were together, it was something I was trying to learn not to say, or the correct way to say it.  I said it, then when I didn't know it was coming, I was slapped.  That got my attention right away, he then said what it was for, and I recognized I had said it.  From then on, I either said it the right way, or I caught myself in mid-sentence and and corrected myself.  At the time, it hurt, and I felt pretty low that I had let him down, but it did make me learn what was expected and that not doing it would result in swift punishment and correction.
 
Master is patient with me, as long as I am really trying, but when I do something I shouldn't, I don't expect him to just let it go.  He probably could have used words to correct me a hundred more times, but nothing would have made me remember quite the same way as that did.  I know that Master would rather hand out pain for pleasure, than pain for punishment.  I am trying my best to make sure he doesn't have to punish again, but if he does, I know he is doing it because he loves me and only wants me to be my best.
 
Akasha
 
 




angelic -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 12:10:58 PM)

~fast reply to no one in particular~  it isn't that i have a problem with punishment, but the punishment should fit the crime.  50 wacks on my cunt with a 'pain stick' for forgetting to do my kegels is a bit extreme, imho.  (Remember, she could have lied and said 'yep, Sir i done did 'em all', and he would be none the wiser). 




Kalira -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 12:16:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

~fast reply to no one in particular~  it isn't that i have a problem with punishment, but the punishment should fit the crime.  50 wacks on my cunt with a 'pain stick' for forgetting to do my kegels is a bit extreme, imho (Remember, she could have lied and said 'yep, Sir i done did 'em all', and he would be none the wiser). 

I don't think its extreme. I was beaten with a belt across my ass for almost 10 minutes once simply because I told him that I was not going to go down a girl; he kept going till I complied.  Not no little whacks either. He meant every strike that hit me.

Maybe for you it is, but for others, it might be lenient. Everyone is different and everyone is treated differently.




angelic -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 12:17:11 PM)

indeed which is why i said imho.  [:)]




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