RE: Some thoughts on punishment (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 3:50:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I don't think "any bdsm" is abuse. I enjoy both domination and submission. Play slapping is one thing. When it comes to punishment, no real man smacks a woman in the face. They either spank them, or find a non physical way to punish them. If I was vanilla I would be against spanking too.


I totally agree with you. Face slapping is just WRONG and those sick men who engage in it ARE, in fact, abusers.

That said, I'm sorry, defiantbadgirl, but spanking is also wrong. And if your Master is spanking you, he is also an abuser and should go spend some time in a jail cell or at the very least, have his ass kicked by your brothers, uncles whatever. I don't know who the hell you think is accepting of spanking, but those who are need to seek some professional help ASAP.

My mother used to spank me when I was a kid and I hated it. I would scream and cry and nothing I could do would stop her from it. To this day, I hate her with a passion.

Touching a woman for ANY reason is considered abuse in my book. (Likewise, touching a man for any reason is also considered abuse. Abuse is not gender specific.)

My question for you would be.. why is it OK for your Master to abuse you? Why haven't you called the cops on him and had him arrested?

Now that I've told you that you are suffering at the hands of an abuser, I do hope you take the steps to find a safe place and get away from him.

Celeste

Note: Since you never mentioned the word consent my post is based on acts which are non-consensual in nature and I stand behind every word of my post.








SlaveAkasha -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 3:56:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply here.

Now first, let me state that if ANY man EVER smacked me in the face he should, if he has a brain, be fearing for his life. If I ever saw or knew of a man doing this to a woman, outside of BDSM, I would feel the same way. It is abuse, IN THAT CONTEXT!

However, the key to this whole thing is that we all go into BDSM relationships with a clear understanding (hopefully) based upon alot of communication, of what is acceptable to each of us as individuals. IF, the two individuals have agreed that face slapping by either a male or female is an acceptable part of their arrangement then it is NOT abuse. It was agree upon. In my opinion if, at any time during the relationship, that is renegociated and changes, it should be honoured.

From what I have read, the two different scenarios are being lumped into one and being called abuse. As others have stated, ALOT of WIIWD could be considered abuse of some form taken out of the context of BDSM/WIIWD.



This is all I am saying.  It is an agreed on form of punishment for me, by him.  If at any other time a man walked up and slapped me anyplace, he would soon find himself changed from a outie, to an innie. 
 
In the confines of our Master and slave relationship, where we both agree, it cannot be defined as abuse.  If I ever felt it was in that context, I wouldn't allow it and something else would be negotiated.
 
Akasha



Kalira -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:03:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

~fast reply to no one in particular~  it isn't that i have a problem with punishment, but the punishment should fit the crime.  50 wacks on my cunt with a 'pain stick' for forgetting to do my kegels is a bit extreme, imho.  (Remember, she could have lied and said 'yep, Sir i done did 'em all', and he would be none the wiser). 
 
 


I don't think its extreme. I was beaten with a belt across my ass for almost 10 minutes once simply because I told him that I was not going to go down a girl; he kept going till I complied.  Not no little whacks either. He meant every strike that hit me.

Maybe for you it is, but for others, it might be lenient. Everyone is different and everyone is treated differently.


You were beaten for refusing to be bisexual? I wonder how he would feel if someone beat him for not sucking a man's cock. Maybe some people are into forced bisexuality, but I think such a thing is dangerous to a person's psychological well being.

It had nothing to do with refusing to be bisexual. It had everything to do with my attitude towards him ....going down on the girl was meant to be a lesson, when I refused, he put me in my place...in the end, I did as I was asked and never forgot the lesson that was there.



defiantbadgirl -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:04:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

A woman smacking a man in the face wouldn't be abusive like a man smacking a woman in the face. Most men are bigger and stronger than women, just like parents are bigger and stronger than children.......that's why I used the comparison.




So, I could slap a man and it wouldn't be abuse??  That doesn't make any sense.  I think I can pack a pretty good whallop myself if I want, so if I hit a man in the face it would be no different.  It's not abuse, if both people consent to it.  I suppose you think that there is no such thing as men being abused by women?  I happen to know a man that is very strong, but he is physically abused by his wife.  His sufferning at the hands of her, is no less wrong than the abuse you suffered at the hands of yours.
 
It's not the act, it's the relationship (consentual) of the two involved
 
Akasha


Of course she is wrong for abusing him and if he has never hit her, I commend him for being a real man. He doesn't have to sit there and take it though. He could easily walk away or hold her down until the fight goes out of her. He could  spank her as punishment for her abuse. He could also leave her like I left my abusive ex. What my ex did to me would probably not be considered by most on here as abuse. He yanked on my hair hard enough to cause my scalp to swell, squeezed pressure points to cause bruising and inflict pain, slapped me in the mouth just hard enough for my teeth to cut my lip so I tasted blood, threw me down and kicked me........but he never injured me enough for me to be hospitalized. Still, to me it was abuse because I was traumatized by it.



LaTigresse -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:07:16 PM)

defiant, what you are not understanding is the difference between consensual and NONconsensual.



angelic -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:08:32 PM)

If it was (as a whole lot of others have already said) non-consensual, yes then it was abuse.  And i am very sorry you had to go through it.  It became a problem when you accused someone's Master of being an abuser because they mentioned faceslapping when the faceslapping was consenual. 



SlaveAkasha -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:12:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

A woman smacking a man in the face wouldn't be abusive like a man smacking a woman in the face. Most men are bigger and stronger than women, just like parents are bigger and stronger than children.......that's why I used the comparison.




So, I could slap a man and it wouldn't be abuse??  That doesn't make any sense.  I think I can pack a pretty good whallop myself if I want, so if I hit a man in the face it would be no different.  It's not abuse, if both people consent to it.  I suppose you think that there is no such thing as men being abused by women?  I happen to know a man that is very strong, but he is physically abused by his wife.  His sufferning at the hands of her, is no less wrong than the abuse you suffered at the hands of yours.
 
It's not the act, it's the relationship (consentual) of the two involved
 
Akasha


Of course she is wrong for abusing him and if he has never hit her, I commend him for being a real man. He doesn't have to sit there and take it though. He could easily walk away or hold her down until the fight goes out of her. He could  spank her as punishment for her abuse. He could also leave her like I left my abusive ex. What my ex did to me would probably not be considered by most on here as abuse. He yanked on my hair hard enough to cause my scalp to swell, squeezed pressure points to cause bruising and inflict pain, slapped me in the mouth just hard enough for my teeth to cut my lip so I tasted blood, threw me down and kicked me........but he never injured me enough for me to be hospitalized. Still, to me it was abuse because I was traumatized by it.


You were abused, and I don't think anyone here will disagree with you.  You gave the answer yourself though.."I was traumatized by it". 
 
I am not traumatized by my punishment, I am not repeating my mistake, but there is no trauma involved.  Abuse is when two people don't consent to the act, I do consent to the act.  If I didn't, he would be an abuser... and would be in the correct trouble for it.
 
I could bet you money, that if the guy friend I told you about, gave her a whack on the bottom, he would be put in jail for abuse just the same.  It would against her will, and he didn't have her consent to do it.
 
I am sorry what happened to you did, it was wrong by anyones terms and you were right to leave, and he should be hung by his balls from the nearest tree.  Still, don't put my Master in the same league as the man that abused you.  My Master only gives me what I allow, nothing more.  If he pulled my hair out, caused me to bleed, and the other things you mentioned, it would not be consented to, and it would be plain abuse.  However, if there is someone in a relationship where they allow that, then their Master/Mistress is not abusive either.
 
You can't lump everyone together, you have to look at things on a case by case basis...and judge them accordingly.
 
Akasha



angelic -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:14:00 PM)

However, i still disagree with the OP's punishment! [8D]  NOT because it was abusive, but because i personally thought it was excessive for the crime (imho).  Again, just for clarification.... my opinion.

Having said that, there may be things that i have done for previous Masters that the OP would never subject his slave to and find too extreme.  It is just a difference of opinions and experiences.



Lady Alaria -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:21:28 PM)

-Fast Reply-

Hmm,
Actually, the concept of 'vanilla' is pretty fuzzy. I think most vanilla folks at least play around with the notion of the occasional swat on the ass. And most wouldn't be too shocked by the idea of a spanking, as long as it's just play. Kinky fun. I think one of the main differences that seperates the vanilla world from the BDSM community is the understanding of Consent. A concept it doesn't seem like you have a full grasp of yet. I know things get tricky with consensual non-consent, and the notion of punishment and discipline, but regardless, consent is consent. Informed consent is best.
I have to wonder though. You got very distressed over the notion of a man slapping a woman's face, but not the 50 stern whacks to the cunny(ow). Somehow this seems skewed to me.

To the OP
Sorry for assisting in the hijacking of your thread. Just seemed important to address. As to your statement, I first have to cringe, then state my agreement with others that if it's what works for you and yours, great. I'm not too terribly experienced in this whole realm, but I'm not sure I have it in me to go as far as consensual non-consent. The notion of having someone crying, begging me to stop, and knowing that it wasn't just role-playing, and me not stopping....I don't think I could do that. Maybe, maybe. I also have a commensurate fear that if ever things reached that kind of state, could I trust myself? I know, in knowing myself, that I have a deep and dark well of rage, that in fact seems to fuel and feed my sadism. I haven't noted it being an issue as of yet. But I do wonder. Ah well, another thing I must explore about myself. Very carefully.

Curious, any other Doms have a similar experience/fear?(perhaps I should start another thread)



BitaTruble -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:35:55 PM)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_650821/tm.htm

Lady A, this is a current thread and your input on it would be most welcome. The subject is regarding fear in association with the benefits and consequences of taking risks.



slavegirl1969 -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:41:53 PM)

I'm not understanding how in a night club a swat on the ass is not abuse and a slap in the face is.  Certainly where I work anyone who slaps anyone in the face can be nicked for assault and anyone who swats anyone on the ass can be nicked for sexual assault (gender of victim is irrelevant).  Everything we do consensually in the BDSM community is assault of some kind in the vanilla world - hence why we play privately.  If I was ever called to a job where a neighbour has complained that the woman/man next door sounds like they are being beaten, I turn up, it looks like something has gone on and woohoo the victim has marks and they say "oh i consented to it" its tough, the offender is nicked.  Fortunately I've not actually come across this scenario yet because I'd understand but still have to do my job.
 
 



Lady Alaria -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:51:08 PM)

-fast reply-

Thanks bita, I'll look at that.



catize -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 4:55:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I just hoped he wiped his screen clean after he posted this.


The OP does make one wonder what was his motivation for sharing this as well as raises the question in my mind if he was really as detached as he claims. 



stef -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 5:00:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Akasha, the fact that he uses face slapping as a correction and not for pleasure makes it abuse.

If her master was to take away her television privileges as a correction, would that be abuse?

quote:

I had a man slap me. I screamed over and over again........then I called him a woman beating bastard. I asked him if he thought it made him a man to hit a woman......then said come on let's see what a man you are. It was very traumatizing and I left him.

So because you had this one experience with that particular asshole, the act itself is always abuse?  That's like saying because you were overcharged by one mechanic that all mechanics are crooks.  All men are not your abusive ex-husband and just because some men do what he did, albeit in an ENTIRELY different context, it does not make them abusers.

Don't expect other people to carry your baggage.

~stef



Kalira -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:00:47 PM)

quote:

Slapping a woman in the face is considered abuse.

hmmm not in MY  house [8D] It's yummmmmmmmmy and a hugeeeeeeeeee turn on

quote:

No real man strikes a woman in the face, 

Hmm they must have been figments of my imagination then

dayum

and it felt soooooooooo good too



Master2akasha -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:04:44 PM)

Hello everyone,
   I would like to clear the air here ....  even though most of you seemed to  do that already.... about the face slapping and "abuse" issue.
   I am akasha's Master, as if the name didnt give that one away. My slave and I talked about what forms of punishment would be acceptable and which ones would not be long before I placed a collar on her neck. As for being labled an "abuser" I think that I am far from that, as my slave as pointed out, it was not a "beating" she took for correction it was one single slap to the face..  nothing more nothing less...would I use it again in the same situation... sure I would, because at the time it did get her full undivided attention and she knew as soon as the punishment was dealt out what she did wrong and to this day if she does the same thing over she will stop and correct it before doing anything else.
abuse is in the eye of the beholder, whats abuse for one is not abuse to someone else.. there are some forms of punishment that I would never use because of that.. to me they are abuse.. but thats just my veiw on the subject.. to others they may be correct forms of punishment.. I say if it works for you it works for me  to each their own.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:23:26 PM)

Sounds like your are learning some good stuff ExtremeO, attrition, accountability, safety, detachment....good stuff.
 
I would might encourage you to not take the God/Owner stuff too seriously though, you can become a parody of yourself, which i can tell you does not inspire confidence as a rule.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:30:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
. Face slapping is just WRONG and those sick men who engage in it ARE, in fact, abusers.


i cant say why exactly, but i felt disappointed when i read this from you bita, silly as i t may sound .
 
 its not that i dont understand, in fact i thought the same exact thing once, however over the years i have grown to to really accept that concentual means concentual...



BitaTruble -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:32:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
. Face slapping is just WRONG and those sick men who engage in it ARE, in fact, abusers.


i cant say why exactly, but i felt disappointed when i read this from you bita, silly as i t may sound .
 
 its not that i dont understand, in fact i thought the same exact thing once, however over the years i have grown to to really accept that concentual means concentual...


CT - did you miss this part of my post?

"Note: Since you never mentioned the word consent my post is based on acts which are non-consensual in nature and I stand behind every word of my post."

::winks::

Celeste 



crouchingtigress -> RE: Some thoughts on punishment (10/26/2006 6:34:58 PM)

yeah i am a dork.....scanning instead of reading again!....



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