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Humiliation...for and against. - 10/25/2006 9:43:37 PM   
PiercedDaz


Posts: 121
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		As a caring Dom wishing to improve his skills to become respected in my community, I seek the thoughts of the diverse range of subs/slaves here.

I understand that for TPE to take place, there must be a firm foundation of mutual trust and respect for the Dom to accept the gift of submission. Where do you think humiliation comes into this?

Is it an acceptable form of breaking down barriers?
Is it an acceptable punishment?
For those that enjoy it, what forms are the most acceptable and beneficial?

I thank you for your time and input.

Daz.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/25/2006 9:52:32 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I do not think humiliation breaks down barriers. Humiliation in some cases is what gets a sub/slave off. It is something they enjoy. As for punishment, if you mean for fun, for me in mild forms. Humiliation doesn't do a whole lot for me. Master enjoys doing some to me but only in small doses. As for discipline, what works for one sub/slave doesn't work for another. Humiliation is like anything else, some enjoy more than others and some can't stand it. It just has to be individualized for each situation and person.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/25/2006 10:12:08 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Its not a sub opinion, since I am a domme, but I do own one that is into the public humiliation... so I thought Id share.
quote:

ORIGINAL: PiercedDaz

Where do you think humiliation comes into this?
Is it an acceptable form of breaking down barriers?

This is a touchy subject.  Humiliation has as much potential to erect barriers as it does to break them down in a D/s relationship.  You have to be able to judge your sub/slave well, not only to know if humiliation is a positive thing for them, but also to judge how far is too far.  Humiliation can be a great turn on for some, but if pushed too far can easily become damaging.
quote:


Is it an acceptable punishment?

It can be, assuming it works as a punishment.  However, this is a very difficult path, making sure that by humiliating someone as a punishment you dont do some sort of more lasting damage to their ego or psyche.  I have known subs that were so delicate in their makeup that humiliating them would have been harmful, and I have known others that could not have been humilated even had I tried.

If and when we do get into humiliation, I prefer public to private.  In public, its exciting.  The added thrill of possibly getting caught adds to it.  In private, unless I really believe that someone deserves derision, it is just playacting for me. And if a sub has truly earned derision to that level... it is going to be the last time we play.

My 2 cents,
DV

As always if you have questions youd like to ask, feel free to message me on the other side.


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 4:25:00 AM   
yaqeta


Posts: 59
Status: offline
quote:

Is it an acceptable form of breaking down barriers?

Without wanting to be too noncommital, in some circumstances for some people, yes.  My Master uses humiliation beautifully for this purpose: he exposes a part of me or my desires that I find shameful, either to someone else or just between us, and then, when I am feeling my most vulnerable and often in tears from the humiliation of it, he praises me.  It is a powerful experience to have someone tap into what it is that makes you feel dirty (in the bad way), and tell you it is beautiful.  It breaks down barriers for myself, and my sense of self esteem, for my limits in play, and most of all in my feelings for him.

But that said, Diurnal Vampire is right: use with caution.  This isn't good for everyone.

quote:

Is it an acceptable punishment?

Probably for some.  For me, yes and no.  The thing about humiliation, for me, is that I fear it as much as I desire it.  So the threat of humiliation, if it is big enough, as an immediate possibility, is a very powerful deterrent.  But the other thing about humiliation, and I think this part is probably true for most, the more you experience it, the less the fear and the greater the desire.  So if this was used as a regular punishment, or as a threatened punishment over a long period of time, I think it would decrease in its usefulness.

quote:

For those that enjoy it, what forms are the most acceptable and beneficial?

I can't think of a kind that isn't enjoyable and beneficial for me, lol.  Talk to your sub to get an idea, then start small, and read their responses with sensitivity.  Humiliation is a very individual thing.

Hope this helps

xxx
yaq

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 5:06:20 AM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PiercedDaz

As a caring Dom wishing to improve his skills to become respected in my community, I seek the thoughts of the diverse range of subs/slaves here.

I understand that for TPE to take place, there must be a firm foundation of mutual trust and respect for the Dom to accept the gift of submission. Where do you think humiliation comes into this?

Is it an acceptable form of breaking down barriers?
Is it an acceptable punishment?
For those that enjoy it, what forms are the most acceptable and beneficial?

I thank you for your time and input.

Daz.

In some cases yes, it can help to break down certain mental barriers that are in place.

As a punishment? For myself, no, I would never want to be humilated as a punishment. To me, humilation serves a dual purpose; one, to teach a lesson; and two, excitement.

What kinds are the most enjoyable? It depends on where we are and what we are doing.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 6:01:32 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I've heard it put this way and it organized the idea of Humilliation in a way that works for me.

When working with humilliation look at the person as a building, they have walls a roof and a foundation.
The trick is to stay away from the load bearing walls. And if you need to work on a load bearing wall it is best to make sure you have reinforced the structure so that when you do the building doesn't collase on top of you.

To use this concept you have to first study your bottom (generic) and see which values are the ones that are core to their self image, those are the load bearing walls. If there is a value that has to be worked on then you have to reinforce some other value to put in it's place first and then you can tear out the old wall.

Just a way of looking at humilliation that allowed me to include it in my toolbox.

In Leather

Archer


(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 8:52:32 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PiercedDaz

As a caring Dom wishing to improve his skills to become respected in my community, I seek the thoughts of the diverse range of subs/slaves here.

I understand that for TPE to take place, there must be a firm foundation of mutual trust and respect for the Dom to accept the gift of submission. Where do you think humiliation comes into this?

Is it an acceptable form of breaking down barriers?
Is it an acceptable punishment?
For those that enjoy it, what forms are the most acceptable and beneficial?

I thank you for your time and input.

Daz.


hi Daz. as a slave, i'll try my best to answer the 3 questions you posed. yes, humiliation can be an acceptable form of breaking down barriers...it can also be an effective element in punishment. i do not enjoy humiliation....the pain caused by humiliation is real and not something that titilates me. however i do NEED humiliation from time to time. it's a tool my Master uses to keep me in my place, or to remind me of my place. when i'm in need of some humbling, humiliation is often the key. as to what forms, that's very individual as no two people are alike. for me, it may be being spoken to in a particular way, or having to do something which causes me to feel shame.

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 8:58:56 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		It's going to entirely depend on the people involved. I simply do not like humiliation, unless it's done in a playful way. Serious, totally degrading humiliation just does not trip my trigger. But, for many, it does. Be careful withi it; it can expose landmines and end up having very negative effects.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 11:30:58 AM   
ownedjulia


Posts: 218
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: PiercedDaz

As a caring Dom wishing to improve his skills to become respected in my community, I seek the thoughts of the diverse range of subs/slaves here.

I understand that for TPE to take place, there must be a firm foundation of mutual trust and respect for the Dom to accept the gift of submission. Where do you think humiliation comes into this?

Is it an acceptable form of breaking down barriers?
Is it an acceptable punishment?
For those that enjoy it, what forms are the most acceptable and beneficial?

I thank you for your time and input.

Daz.


hi Daz. as a slave, i'll try my best to answer the 3 questions you posed. yes, humiliation can be an acceptable form of breaking down barriers...it can also be an effective element in punishment. i do not enjoy humiliation....the pain caused by humiliation is real and not something that titilates me. however i do NEED humiliation from time to time. it's a tool my Master uses to keep me in my place, or to remind me of my place. when i'm in need of some humbling, humiliation is often the key. as to what forms, that's very individual as no two people are alike. for me, it may be being spoken to in a particular way, or having to do something which causes me to feel shame.


I'd have to echo what daddysprop has said. humiliation is a tool like any other. It has been used to introduce me to new experiences, show me what i am (my place) and as punishment.

As a punishment its the worst. it's hard going. it can be bad, it can be difficult but Master is always there to help and that makes it bareable and ultimatley worthwhile.

Hate Humililation? Yes I do.

Love Humiliation? Yes I do.




_____________________________

~julia
owned slave and proud of it!

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 12:03:16 PM   
Siona


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/5/2006
Status: offline 		Humiliation would not work for me.
It would have a negative effect on me.

(in reply to ownedjulia)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 12:37:52 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		To be truthful, I don't think that I've ever been humiliated in a real sense......I've certainly been humbled, though.

I think only those that have endured it will know if it's acceptable as a punishment.

agirl





(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 3:17:27 PM   
untamedshysub


Posts: 220
Joined: 2/26/2005
Status: offline 		humiliation hurts but when I probe why it hurts its usally my pride and fear of something that is hurting. When I can get past that I can learn from it and know that is a place I never want to go again.  But in ways I cannot describe I have grown in my quest to be the best slave I can be.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 3:33:34 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		Humiliation is a form of S&M play and should not be used for discipline.  It should be used for enjoyment.  There are lots of good humiliation scenes on the net you can google for.

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 5:17:18 PM   
Fawne


Posts: 462
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I've heard it put this way and it organized the idea of Humilliation in a way that works for me.

When working with humilliation look at the person as a building, they have walls a roof and a foundation.
The trick is to stay away from the load bearing walls. And if you need to work on a load bearing wall it is best to make sure you have reinforced the structure so that when you do the building doesn't collase on top of you.

To use this concept you have to first study your bottom (generic) and see which values are the ones that are core to their self image, those are the load bearing walls. If there is a value that has to be worked on then you have to reinforce some other value to put in it's place first and then you can tear out the old wall.

Just a way of looking at humilliation that allowed me to include it in my toolbox.

In Leather
Archer


I do like humiliation ( always sounds so odd!), but it has to be very balanced by kindness and leadership.

Archer said it very well. Thank you, Archer.

from the bottom side-
fawne

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 5:37:15 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		Personally, humiliation is something I've only fantasized about but I have a general rule against allowing something that is used for "pleasure" to be also used for punishment or discipline.  So, if I were actively exploring humiliation via scenes and the like, I wouldn't want a Dominant to punish me through humiliation.

(in reply to Fawne)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 8:52:31 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Depends on the sub. I know some who find humiliation hot. I don't know of those who use it for punishment but I suppose there must be.

For me? Puts up big major road blocks in our relationship. He hard limited it when he realized the damage it was doing. When he said humiliating things to me, I took it to heart. So if I was called a nasty whore, then afterwards if he said no, that wasn't true, he really did value me, I wouldn't believe him. I believed that his true feelings about me were the humiliating ones. And I don't want to be with anyone who thinks of me in those terms. I want to be valued.

As far as physical stuff. He tried putting a crotch rope on me and then having me get dressed so we could go to dinner. I literally couldn't walk out of the room. Just stood there, unable to look at him or talk to him and couldn't stop crying. Even when given permission to remove it, I couldn't move. He had to undress me, remove it and spend a long time calming me.

So for me, it's something we just don't do.

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/26/2006 9:46:04 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		Am definitely not into humiliation.  It is such a self esteem buster for me that to have it used on me would be destructive and would end a relationship.  I know others enjoy it very much but count me out. 

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/27/2006 8:38:46 AM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		Archer had a beautiful way of looking at it, one that might make me reasses whether, humiliation would be a hard limit for me if someone came with that mindset.  That said, humbling would be fine.  For me, I see humiliation as a 'you are totally worthless--you should be grateful I let you breathe" and humbling as "you aren't perfect, and here's how, but you are loved, not because you earned it, but because you are."  But I have weird connotations with words and may see it in a different context than most. 

(in reply to diamonddreamlove)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/27/2006 10:34:31 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		AS a further explination to the earlier posting:

If I know Elegant has Motherhood as a core value to her self identity, so thus I would not attack her with humiliation based on her skills as a mother. However I could target something like Fashion sense and it would be possible to have fun with it. OR I could target something like her vanity if I wanted to shift how she looks at herself, however with vanity removed what takes it's place? left to itself vaitywould creep back in if something is not put in it's place. So how would all these things look

1. I would not say to Elegant something like "Your worthless as a mother see how that kid of yours does _______". That type of thing would engender flight or fight since it is a core value for her.

2. However I could have fun humiliating her with targets like "God how can you wear something like that it makes you look clownish. In fact I'm gonna make you wear clown shoes for the rest of the day." Humilating yes damaging not likely.

3. I could also say something along the lines of "You really think you're all that you're nowhere near that good. I go to a tralerpark and find someone as prettyas you. You spend so much time in front of the mirror you hardly have time cook supper........
Attacking the vanity though is tricky since you have to attack the vanity as opposed to the actual appearance.
You don't tell them they are ugly or unattractive you tell them that as attractive as they are that isn't of any real value to you.

4 Then the replacement value has to be rebuilt in place of the vanity, healthy respect for personal hygene and appearance without false pride.


So there you have 2 ways humiliation can be done healthily and 1 way to avoid, as well as a few ideas as to how to look at and plan humiliation as a healthy tool or fun.


Clear as mud I'm sure

(in reply to ladychatterley)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Humiliation...for and against. - 10/27/2006 11:02:05 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		If I'm not mistaken, I believe Archer is demonstrating the difference between humiliation (taking someone down a peg) and degradation (destroying self-esteem).

Another example of humiliation could be something like making my girl use the cat box instead of the toilet. It isn't the sort of thing I would do for punishment (though others certainly could), though I might do it just because it would amuse me.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 20
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