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RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 6:05:21 PM

mam

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/16/2006
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The person harassing you is a bully. Do not give them the response they seek. Try to draw them into making a stupid move. (If they hit you, the police can haul them out of there.)
Management is ineffective.
Don't get phsycial.(At least while you are still employed there.) Document and record all harassment. Turn the matter over to your employer. And yes, notify the state agencys of any abuse you see directed at the unmentionables.
Once you are gone, who will she target next?

(in reply to nikaa)

Post #: 21

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 6:48:37 PM

nikaa

Posts: 357
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

quote:

ORIGINAL: fortwaynewoman

I really like Rule's second suggestion, to discuss it with the students. It's not like you are bringing this to their attention for the first time - they already have seen it themselves. And yes, they will talk to their moms and dads about it.

I disagree with this. If the children have already witnessed this behavior, you can bet that they have told their parents about it. Forcing the children to become an active part of it, by discussing it openly, is wrong.

I have to agree with Kalira. I am not comfortable with the idea of the children at the center being subjected to this situation at all yet alone by myself. I suppose that is what bothers me the most about the situation is every outburst of anger,disrespect, ect from this woman towards me has been done in front of the children. Children we are payed to care for,instruct, and guide. Many of whom are still nonverbal for the most part.

The truly sad part of this is not only does this affect the children in the center but it also is affecting my own children because they see me upset, stressed and becoming physically sick over this. I wonder if it is really worth it but if I quit am I letting my kids down? Am I showing them to simply give up and walk away? If I walk away am I giving this woman(my co-worker) power over me or am I reclaiming it?

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The Cherokee legacy is that we are a people who face adversity, survive, adapt, prosper and excel.

Wakan Tankan Nici Un

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 22

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 6:57:49 PM

LTRsubNW

Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Take her out back and beat the crap out of her.

Ya know, I love these kinds of posts...everyone jumps on the "undefendant" as the horrid person of ill-repute.

No one ever asks for the other side.

I couldn't begin to assume the truth....(and neither could you).

One of these days (before you all jump to defend someone you know NOT AT ALL)...you ought to consider the...oh...I don't know...lemme think now...OH YEAH....the other side of the story????

(There's a thought).

Ya know sweety...you may be totally in the right...but the fact is...the other side hasn't spoken.

(Until then...I don't have an opinion).

(Just a thought).

And if you'd like mine....be aware...I consider both sides.

< Message edited by LTRsubNW -- 10/27/2006 7:00:24 PM >

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 23

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 7:06:29 PM

subjected2006

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/20/2006
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I dont care for particulars,,it turned into a demonstration in front of children.
I'm a mom..and I say I dont wanna hear excuses.
Don't act like a crazy person in front of my kid.

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a rose is a rose..

(in reply to LTRsubNW)

Post #: 24

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 7:08:38 PM

subjected2006

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/20/2006
Status: offline

And in case there is a break down in communication here..
I was not serious about the OP popping her co-wrker in the nose.
It seemed the funny thing to say at the time.

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a rose is a rose..

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 25

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 7:22:01 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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I saw supervisor and overlooked the "/owner" part. In that case I think I go along with Popeye.

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(in reply to fortwaynewoman)

Post #: 26

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 7:24:09 PM

mtumwawaBwana

Posts: 541
Status: offline

every once in a while i have a similar problem with other nurses or nurse assistants at my work....i always carry a palm sized recorder. and when things happen, i simply just put my hand in my pocket and push the buttons.....then when the fecal matter hits the aerial oscillator, i pull out my trusty recorder and play the tape and let their own words speak for them selves. i have found i need say little more after this. and every time....the problem was solved.

i hope things get better for you

(in reply to nikaa)

Post #: 27

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 7:28:19 PM

LTRsubNW

Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mtumwawaBwana

every once in a while i have a similar problem with other nurses or nurse assistants at my work....i always carry a palm sized recorder. and when things happen, i simply just put my hand in my pocket and push the buttons.....then when the fecal matter hits the aerial oscillator, i pull out my trusty recorder and play the tape and let their own words speak for them selves. i have found i need say little more after this. and every time....the problem was solved.

i hope things get better for you

Bingo.

(in reply to mtumwawaBwana)

Post #: 28

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 7:36:29 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

I would say that you need to speak to your employer privatey, without the others anywhere around. Are you the only one this coworker treats this way? I somehow doubt it, but perhaps no one else has gotten t the point of distraction you have. For the children's sake, she needs to be stopped. Even if she is not targeting the children in her tyrades, if they love you and hear her, it stil hurts them. At te veryleast, she is being inappropraite around them, and for that alone she should be reprimanded. If siting your case for your coworker alone doesnt make the apropriate impact, hen remind your employer that the children are to be considered. I am sure if their parents were aware of what was being said or done in front of their children, there would be an aweful lot of complaints. Perhaps that might turn the right head and get something done.

DV

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VampiresLair

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 29

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 7:58:41 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

No one ever asks for the other side.

So you would believe what side A said about side B in a dispute?

How is that working for you?

I simply pointed out that there are laws which regulate workplace behavior and if it comes down to a legal issue, the employer is required by law to figure out what is happening and correct it.

But if they are not notified, they are unlikely to do anything about the problem.

Sinergy

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(in reply to LTRsubNW)

Post #: 30

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 8:03:43 PM

LTRsubNW

Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

No one ever asks for the other side.

So you would believe what side A said about side B in a dispute?

I believe neither, until the truth comes out.

(And in fact, had you cognizantly read my post as opposed to having an opinion prior to finishing out what I actually wrote...you'd have seen that indeed I stated very clearly that my opinion required, indeed, insisted on another).

I know...it's silly to wait for the facts...but you know...

(It's just my way...I know others have theirs...this is mine)

< Message edited by LTRsubNW -- 10/27/2006 8:11:34 PM >

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(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 31

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 8:47:10 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

No one ever asks for the other side.

So you would believe what side A said about side B in a dispute?

I believe neither, until the truth comes out.

...

Missed the recent discussion on question begging?

And what if the first account from the first party happens to be the truth? Because as soon as that account is given then the truth is out.

As for me I'm a little wary of claims which begin with: "No one ever ... "

(in reply to LTRsubNW)

Post #: 32

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 10:43:56 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

Having been one with many adversarial situations in the past, I should be qualified to offer up an opinion here.

Unlike the Bush/Haliburton gang we do not have the means to conquer, so other means must be found. Before that can be done, you must find out what they are bitching about. First of all, their claims could be somewhat true, or you might be able to find out why things are mispercieved. Bad communication is what starts most problems. There are classes of people who are just mean, but they wouldn't be working there, they are in government. You need to find out what their specific gripes are. There must be some. Whether they are valid or not is up for discussion later, once you know what they are.

Alot of people find that they inadvertently pissed someone off, and once that is known, many times the situation can be resolved amicably. This is goal number one.

One possibility : "Hey, just what is it you don't like about me, just what did I do to you ?". showing a desire to know can impel people to soften up a bit. Of course there are alot of assholes out there so if an amicable resolution is not reached, go for number two.

Goal number two involves trying to invoke their proffesionalism. Of course they must have this in the first place. In your paticular circumstance they might not. But they might.

For example : "Look, I don't care if you don't like my looks, or my type or whatever, but we are paid to do a job here, so can we stop this now and simply cooperate to get things done ?".

Remember you need to be on firm moral ground here, society is not perfect, but when you got that tape rolling which you can make public, well, if it goes to goal number three then it does. I do not want enemies of any sort, I try not to make them. But there are some times when there is no other choice, so I give you goal number three. Win.

There are three major rules to winning.

1. Do not resort to stupid shit, like keying someone's car or sugaring their gas tank, stuff like that forget it. That is only venting anger which you MUST DISMISS when trying to win. You MUST step outside of the anger so that you can think clearly.

2. Do not do anything purposely to anger the adversary. Simply pissing them off will get you nowhere, and might even set you back if you're discovered. I mean even playing music they don't like (for a different situation, but the same concept), or other stupid shit.

3. Only do things that (as much as possible) direcly affect the outcome of the struggle. Don't waste energy on anything else. You only have so much energy, clout and self control to work with, use it to your best advantange. Every ounce of it.

Always remember the first and second goals.

Advanced : "Look, what I didn't think of is that you could be in a world of shit right now, you could be getting divorced, have someone in the hospital or your olman is pissing you off. You might be taking it out on us here. It would be better to talk it out with someone than to wreck your image by being bitchy. Come to me as a human being, and you can unload if you want, but we have to think of the kids".

With an approach like that you can not only lose an enemy, you can gain a friend, if you want it. The real trick is to say it strong, be strong and appear strong. To say words like that, you cannot be demure, you cannot be sheepish. Speak them loud and proud, but not yelling , not really even loud. Just very deliberate and articulate. Make yourself clear, very clear, and for the tape too.

Remember this, whether they are a bitch or they are allowing some externally generated anger to float to work, they are immature. You should have it all over them in the mental/intellectual department. This is your greatest strength. You second greatest strength is the record of your words and actions.

Do not rush into this, think it out, but if you succeed it'll be great.

T

(in reply to Noah)

Post #: 33

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 11:24:24 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

I think the only outside input you need is your own. Take a step back from the situation and try to look at it in an objective manner. Sometimes people just aren't able to communicate in a rational manner. Sure, that's not your fault but it has, apparently, become your problem. Something had to trigger these outbursts. The trigger may have little to do with you, but it might be in your best interest to find out.

On a more personal note, I had a coworker who I was unable to communicate with. We didn't work around small children, but it was a roadblock when trying to accomplish group goals. We never did like each other, but learned to say, "When you are ready to communicate in an adult manner, I'm ready to listen." We parted on amicable terms. Sure, I never got to know her that well, but I learned a valuable lesson in human nature.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to nikaa)

Post #: 34

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 11:44:23 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Wow, things were so much easier in the military!
In the Navy if this happenned between two guys the Cheif would say; "Oh, you two don't like each other? Good! you two bozos are on the card for this saturday nights Smoker!"
Then, on saturday night you'd both put on the gloves up on the flight deck and go at it until one K.O.'d the other.
In the Coast Guard it just didn't happen. Everyone had guns on their hips.

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 35

RE: Needing outside input - 10/27/2006 11:52:38 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

Well, that would have made my life a lot easier...and satisfying.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 36

RE: Needing outside input - 10/28/2006 7:12:46 AM

MistressTexas

Posts: 425
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

Ok sweetheart. First, I'm sorry this is happening to you. Workplaces should be as comfortable as possibly, or at least not needlessly terrible. Second, You have a few options. All of which are viable.

1: You can inform your boss that; should he/she choose to continue allowing this behaviour, you will be contacting a lawyer. The case will be regarding unfair and constructive dismissal. Constructive dismissal, to the best of my knowledge, is an employer making the worklace so horrible, or allowing it to become so horrible, that for your mental and physical health, you have no choice but to quit. Note: Employers reeeeaaallly don't like that type of lawsuit because its so damn subjective. When you have proof, they like it even less.

2: You can inform your boss that since she seems relatively unconcerned about your co-workers behaviour in front of the children, you will be requesting a meeting with the parents of the children. You will be informing them of the situation their children are being subjected to. The parents have a right to check and be informed of the daycare situation any time they please. Invite them to do so.

3: Inform your coworker that any further outbursts will be taken as assault and/or child abuse, and you will be calling 911. Inform your boss of this as well.

The biggest thing, is when you take any of these steps, follow through. Do not back down. If you are lucky enough to have found a job you love, don't back off because some woman has some issue she cannot keep to herself in the presence of extremely impressionable children.

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 37

RE: Needing outside input - 10/28/2006 7:20:22 AM

Ava82

Posts: 55
Joined: 1/2/2006
Status: offline

How I dealt with a situation like this was talking to other co-workers (not the one who's giving you shit). Ask them if they've noticed anything, try to find sympathy. Ask for their honest assessment of the situation; find out if they are on your side. If they are, ALL of you go to the boss, or write a formal complaint, or whatever it is. My guess is the tension affects everyone.

(in reply to MistressTexas)

Post #: 38

RE: Needing outside input - 10/28/2006 7:45:14 AM

PoeticPrincess

Posts: 49
Joined: 10/21/2006
Status: offline

I think there are two issues here. Your own wellbeing and professional pride and the care and safety of the children.

If the children are being abused then fight it through your attorney if you need to. The unwelcome publicity will ensure that this group ejects the abuser.

If the children are safe, I would most definitely either find a conducive workplace or start your own nursery. Do not involve the children in this dispute. They will be grown up soon enough. If you wish to discuss bullying with them in a circle, and how they think bullies should be punished, then do. But remember the way to handle bullies is not to bully them back. The way to handle a bully is to be stronger than they are, strong enough to disregard their behaviour and not react. To blank their bad behaviour and commend the good behaviour. This could be a good life lesson if you overcome it, and a good one if you walk away and find richer pastures. Either way, Bless you and good luck!

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 39

RE: Needing outside input - 10/28/2006 8:37:26 AM

MistressCamille

Posts: 107
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fortwaynewoman

That is the underhanded I meant (from MistressCamille), and it does work, either way things turn out (the coworker shuts up or you have proof - or both). The point is that you should not (and neither should those kids) have to deal with people like her while you are making a living (or away from home while mom and dad make theirs). This coworker of yours is just so far out of line, and so is the owner, if that is how she is going to deal with the situation.

You are right, you should not have to deal with crazy people at work. The reality is that it happens at most work places. And the reality in my state (Florida) is that employees are not protected in many cases from this sort of thing. The employer has a right to terminate any employee at any time without a reason. Doesn't that really suck? And I really believe that the employers know the law and don't care much about the ones they employ. They know they can get away with it.

I left my last job because the owner was playing mental games, hiding the tools I needed to work. starting fights with me. talking about all the other employees in a negative way (and talking about me to others as well).

In reality the only real option the OP has is to find another job. All other solutions are temporary at best, unless that other employee is fired, and it doesn't look like that will be an option. Having said that, giving the owner an option to get rid of the problem or the OP will leave is the best way to go. I'd still carry that recorder till the end though. Evidence can be priceless.

(in reply to fortwaynewoman)

Post #: 40

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