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common courtesy - 10/28/2006 9:45:15 AM   
patina


Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: no
Status: offline 		Sirs: Do you feel that as the Master you do not need to show what is supposed to be common courtesy even for the vanilla world:  Holding the door for a female, helping her with packages, thanking her for doing something for you.  I am not asking to put you down but wondering if you consider those things beneath your stature for being done for a sub. 

Patina


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a diamond in the rough
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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 9:55:39 AM   
charismagirrl


Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		i am not a Sir but i will speak of how my Master/Daddy is with me. He always opens the door for me and carries things that are heavy, he is the MAN after all and it just seems more appropriate that way. It seems like he is leading me and i am following his lead and doesn't detract from his dominance at all, rather it seems to add to it. He also does say thank you to me, even when i follow a direct order and that rings in my ears as "Good girl, you've made me happy."



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For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 10:25:39 AM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Sirs: Do you feel that as the Master you do not need to show what is supposed to be common courtesy even for the vanilla world: [snip]


No.  Courtesy is due to every person, regardless of D/s orientation, unless and until they show they don't deserve it.  

I will point out that what you are calling "common courtesy" to women (opening doors, pulling out chairs, carrying packages) is a set of rules that many people (both men and women) believe are in place in order to oppress women.  These may be to you "common courtesy" but to others they may be vestiges of a social system that makes sure women are treated as fragile, ineffective property and men treat them "kindly" in order to reinforce ownership and control.  Is part of your idea of vanilla common courtesy to women to pay them $.71 for every dollar men are paid and to keep their delicate, waif-like selves under a nice rigid glass ceiling?  Just wondering.

E.



_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 10:45:17 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

Holding the door for a female


Well my Lord will sometimes hold the door for alandra and I but that is generally because we are carrying everything and our hands our full.  *w*

Seriously though, if he wants to do this things, then he will.  If doesn't then he wont.  We don't pay much attention to how others think we should behave.  He shows us in a myriad of other ways just how much respect he has for us.  We don't need these particular things in order to feel special.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 10:54:43 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I believe that all people should be polite and kind to others. I am seeing someone that is one of the most polite people I have ever been involved with, he not only opens doors for me, but for other people as well. He says "please" and "thank you" not only to strangers, but to me.

I was raised to be this way, to smile at strangers, to open doors for people, to wait for elderly or handicapped to go first, to get things off of tall shelves for short people. My Daddy is the same way... being dominant is not a free pass to be rude. In my opinion rudeness is not dominant, it is just plain rude.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 11:01:13 AM   
stockingluvr54


Posts: 673
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		I was also raised to be polite and will continue to do so.....

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 11:10:41 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Not as if it matters- if someone acts in a way that you consider inappropriate, then they obviously are not for you. 

http://www.collarchat.com/m_505491/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#505668
Seeking consensus: dominant as gentleman?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_433779/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#433966
Master...in slaves' eyes!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_380311/mpage_2/key_gentleman%252Cdom/tm.htm#384513
dom vs gentleman

http://www.collarchat.com/m_266268/mpage_1/key_gentleman%252Cdom/tm.htm#266288
the gentleman dom with feelings

Is the term gentleman dom an oxymoron?

Gentlemen vs nice guy


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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 11:15:57 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

Holding the door for a female


Well my Lord will sometimes hold the door for alandra and I but that is generally because we are carrying everything and our hands our full.  *w*


I laughed at this because my first thought was that I can't get the door because I'm too loaded up as his pack mule, lol.

And I echo what you said about being shown respect in so many other ways that to me, have deeper, truer meaning than whether or not he gets a door.  To me, he repects me by loading me up, because he knows I would feel useless if his hands were full and mine were empty.  I am grateful for the work.

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 11:32:14 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

Holding the door for a female


Well my Lord will sometimes hold the door for alandra and I but that is generally because we are carrying everything and our hands our full.  *w*


I laughed at this because my first thought was that I can't get the door because I'm too loaded up as his pack mule, lol.

And I echo what you said about being shown respect in so many other ways that to me, have deeper, truer meaning than whether or not he gets a door.  To me, he repects me by loading me up, because he knows I would feel useless if his hands were full and mine were empty.  I am grateful for the work.


My mom has severe neck and back problems so I always go shopping and I grab every bag I can because if I do not do it all in one trip she will pick up the bags herself. I hate her carrying anything, so I try to load as much as I humanly can whenever I go shopping with her, which I do 99% of the time so I can help her.

So I am at my Daddy's and we go shopping a few times, the car loaded with stuff. I grab everything I can in one swoop, he is left with one bag, the process repeats itself a few times... he stops me and says "Julia, you know if we do not get it all the first time, we can come back for another trip. I do not expect nor want you to carry everything yourself." He noticed my habit...lol. I was so pleased that my helpfulness did not just go unnoticed, but he even seemed to note there was something about the behavior that seemed to be intent on getting it all in the first trip to the car.

I will remember he does not expect me to do that from now on...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 11:48:31 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

Sirs: Do you feel that as the Master you do not need to show what is supposed to be common courtesy even for the vanilla world:  Holding the door for a female, helping her with packages, thanking her for doing something for you.  I am not asking to put you down but wondering if you consider those things beneath your stature for being done for a sub. 

Patina



There is a common theme amoung some that equate certain behaviors as being either Dominant or submissive in nature and some Acts of "Common Courtesy" is perceived by some as being un-dom like.  I don't tend to follow this thinking

Personally, I don't judge Dominance or Submission based on a state of behaviors or demonstrated acts in a universal sense.  For me dominance and submissive is about authority (command/obedience).  One commands and other obeys.   The manner that Command is giving and the manner to which obedience is demonstated will be relationship specific.  What works for them may not work for others.  For some.. what is perceived as rude may indeed be an expected manner of the relationship.

I can see it now.... as someone watches my girls loaded down with stuff walking behind me as we head out the mall door.  I open the door and hold it for them (strictly for practical reasons... I don't want the them dropping stuff and breaking it etc)  As this watcher looks at me... holding the door and thinks to themself (well at least he held the door... the lazy asshole)

but as girlie points out... would her Master or I be respectful of our girls if we carried the stuff letting them folllow us... and maybe even pushing the door open ourselves (us guys are strong we can do that stuff *G*)... leaving poor girls feeling useless.... all for what... "Common Courtesy"?

Me thinks I will show respect to my girls innerselves and leave the common courtesy for others... I am finding courtesy not to be so common anyways.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 11:58:07 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
So I am at my Daddy's and we go shopping a few times, the car loaded with stuff. I grab everything I can in one swoop, he is left with one bag, the process repeats itself a few times... he stops me and says "Julia, you know if we do not get it all the first time, we can come back for another trip. I do not expect nor want you to carry everything yourself." He noticed my habit...lol. I was so pleased that my helpfulness did not just go unnoticed, but he even seemed to note there was something about the behavior that seemed to be intent on getting it all in the first trip to the car.

I will remember he does not expect me to do that from now on...

It's funny how conditioned habits stay with us.  I have a thing about doing it all in one trip, too, but I have no idea where it came from!  I think it's a silly need to try to be efficient with everything, all the time.  Plus, until recently, it's been difficult for me to allow anyone to do anything for me.  I've been in a position of needing to rely on the help of others and it killed me to ask for help.

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 12:05:32 PM   
jdtallfem


Posts: 180
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline 		Well one obvious common courtesy that seems to be lacking among some of the subs I've seen from this site is the simple phone call or email to cancel an appointment for a meeting.  I mean if a sub can't cancel an appointment and is a no show, what good is he for following any other kind of orders? 
Grates on me.
I've seen it in the vanilla world as well, as if well, as if the attitude is "well it's online so it shouldn't matter."
Ironic, considering all the complaints from subs that there are so many subs per Domme.  Perhaps there aren't so many good ones, heh?
Make an appontment, keep it, or call or email to cancel.
Real Simple. Common Courtesty.
Still Searching....




(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 12:06:04 PM   
Contesaluv


Posts: 173
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I believe that all people should be polite and kind to others. I am seeing someone that is one of the most polite people I have ever been involved with, he not only opens doors for me, but for other people as well. He says "please" and "thank you" not only to strangers, but to me.

I was raised to be this way, to smile at strangers, to open doors for people, to wait for elderly or handicapped to go first, to get things off of tall shelves for short people. My Daddy is the same way... being dominant is not a free pass to be rude. In my opinion rudeness is not dominant, it is just plain rude.


I'm not a Master but as a Mistress I can tell you that you've pretty much captured here how I feel about this.  That I am polite and say "Can you get me....please!" and "Thank you" is part of who I am and does not in anyway detract from the Dominance that is also part of my nature.  Dominance is not a call to rudeness but rather an extension of of one's nature.  Many call themselves Dominant who are just attempting to be that but don't have it as part of their own nature.  I think that many who are rude are so because they just don't get that.

_____________________________

Mistress C.

It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves.
William Shakespeare
------------------------
In a world of so many variables, why do you have to be the norm? Anonymous

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 1:57:48 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline 		Hmm, in the past, it was OUT OF THE NORM for my late husband to NOT open a door for me; though carrying packages often was overlooked  He never said thankyou to me, but he showed me his appreciation of my efforts every single day that we were together.

the one I am with now is pretty much the same. He opens doors for me, sometimes carries packages if he is not busy doing something else. And every day, in tone and action, he lets me know that he appreciates me being there for him.

I don't require verbal appreciation for doing something that I WANT to do; nor do I require special treatment for it. I only require that he be himself, which in turn, allows me to be myself.

Not too much to ask for if you ask me

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We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
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Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 2:37:13 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		I not only expect my girl to do as I say, but to do as I do where manners and common courtesies are concerned.  If I were a boorish, obnoxious pig etc toward others, I could hardly blame her for being anything less herself.
 
So yes, I hold the door for females, *including* my girl just as I say "thankyou" after telling her to fetch me a drink etc....  Frankly, it'd be "beneath" my personal standards (and stature) if I didn't.
 
Focus.

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 3:34:03 PM   
ZenrageTheKeeper


Posts: 237
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline 		Chivalry is not dead.. just mortally wounded. 

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RE: common courtesy - 10/28/2006 5:50:03 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		Actually courtesy is not dead as I found out today..Went grocery shopping and all the carts were outside..a very nice man was coming in as I was going back out to get a cart he saw me and gave me his...later on...there was a package on the highest shelf and to the back it was the last one and I really wanted it..(grin)..so here I am hopping up trying to snag it when another totally different individual came up behind me reached over this shortys head got the package, handed it to me and smiled..or maybe he smirked, must of looked ridiculous doing all that hopping about..lol..now then here I was standing in line when a can of soup falls out of my hands and rolls down the way, another man gets out of line catches the rolling can and walks it over to me, he lost his turn in line but seemed to have no problem with it..I thanked all these wonderful courteous gentlemen (must of been my day for helplessness)so IMO courtesy is not on a life support machine yet!...Tempting

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RE: common courtesy - 10/29/2006 1:26:16 AM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		Sir opens doors, carries things, and walks on the street side of the sidewalk.  For me to do anything but to obey His lead gets me into trouble.  I am His sub His possession and I am valued.  Therefore He (usually He isn't perfect shhhhh don't tell Him i said that) takes excellent care of me as a sub, woman, lady, and lover. 

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RE: common courtesy - 10/29/2006 4:07:03 AM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		Orders should only be given if polite requests fall on deaf ears. I should not have to change my polite demeanor to direct a submissive. That would be manipulation. 0

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RE: common courtesy - 10/29/2006 9:59:33 AM   
emdoub


Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

Sirs: Do you feel that as the Master you do not need to show what is supposed to be common courtesy even for the vanilla world:  Holding the door for a female, helping her with packages, thanking her for doing something for you.  I am not asking to put you down but wondering if you consider those things beneath your stature for being done for a sub. 

It all depends - my behavior is rarely regulated by others. 

Most times, I'm courteous - holding doors, helping with packages, and like that - my sub or not.  Almost always, I'm verbally courteous - 'please' and 'thank you'.  I'm just a victim of my own early training, there.

Sometimes, it's great to do otherwise, though - buy something at a store and walk away from the cashier, expecting them to grab the package quickly enough to be there to open the door for *me*. 

So, it pretty much depends on my mood.  Mostly, the subs I've had have really enjoyed my moods. 

Midnight Writer


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