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RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 5:18:09 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Goddam..... talk about inflammatory rhetoric.



    No Level, when it comes from people they agree with, it is caring, concerned and passionate about their compassion.  When someone they disagree with uses the exact same tactics, using words designed to provoke an emotional response for instance, THEN it is inflammatory.

  


So it seems, Rich. Blinded by self-rightousness.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 5:21:05 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		"keep your laws off of my body".


I always liked that one.

And wholly understood it.



_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 5:22:18 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

"keep your laws off of my body".


I always liked that one.

And wholly understood it.


Generally a good statement, but when it comes to pregnancy, it's not just one body involved.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 5:23:19 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		Really?

Is that body attached to you? I think not.



_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 5:25:06 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Yep... certain people here think they are more ethical and righteous, I tend to think ethical people can differ on this topic, but baby killer and murderer being spewed at me because I do not allow myself to get to emotionally connected to cells and think they are babies tends to shut my ears. Words like grinding babies up tends to make otherwise sensible people a little revolted and defensive

Same person insists that a sick man used his disease just to grind up dead babies for no reason like he is some sort of ogre. I think that is rather self righeous if you ask me.

I have never really responded to these types of threads because I believe good hearted moral people can differ, I thought you had the same thoughts level, sadly I am mistaken

BTW... Michael J Fox is a wonderful person from everything I can see, he definitely does not need me in his corner, but to insist he is portraying his disease as more serious than it really is has to be the lowest of low, and I really think less of anyone who would buy into that for any reason





_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 5:32:56 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Yep... certain people here think they are more ethical and righteous, I tend to think ethical people can differ on this topic, but baby killer and murderer being spewed at me because I do not allow myself to get to emotionally connected to cells and think they are babies tends to shut my ears. Words like grinding babies up tends to make otherwise sensible people a little revolted and defensive

Same person insists that a sick man used his disease just to grind up dead babies for no reason like he is some sort of ogre. I think that is rather self righeous if you ask me.

I have never really responded to these types of threads because I believe good hearted moral people can differ, I thought you had the same thoughts level, sadly I am mistaken

BTW... Michael J Fox is a wonderful person from everything I can see, he definitely does not need me in his corner, but to insist he is portraying his disease as more serious than it really is has to be the lowest of low, and I really think less of anyone who would buy into that for any reason



julia, this thread has devolved into a bunch of men arguing about what is best for women and their bodies.

Although I was singing "Every sperm is sacred" to you earlier.

So what the hell do I know?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 5:40:53 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

Really?

Is that body attached to you? I think not.




No, but I have a feeling that the ones that avoid being aborted appreciate the shit out of someone protecting them.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 5:49:06 PM   
sissifytoserve


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Joined: 8/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

Really?

Is that body attached to you? I think not.




No, but I have a feeling that the ones that avoid being aborted appreciate the shit out of someone protecting them.


How do you know that?


Did you ask them? Can you ask them?

Horrible as abortion is...you don't really believe that a fetus only a month or two old has the same level of consciousness as a newborn baby?

I think not.

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 5:49:12 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Yep... certain people here think they are more ethical and righteous, I tend to think ethical people can differ on this topic, but baby killer and murderer being spewed at me because I do not allow myself to get to emotionally connected to cells and think they are babies tends to shut my ears. Words like grinding babies up tends to make otherwise sensible people a little revolted and defensive.

Plenty of names being tossed around from every direction.

Same person insists that a sick man used his disease just to grind up dead babies for no reason like he is some sort of ogre. I think that is rather self righeous if you ask me.

I have never really responded to these types of threads because I believe good hearted moral people can differ, I thought you had the same thoughts level, sadly I am mistaken.

I can indeed agree to disagree, and I like you and Sinergy, but I got to tell you, the overwhelming sense of "rightness" coming from some leftists on this board boggles my mind, to be honest.

BTW... Michael J Fox is a wonderful person from everything I can see, he definitely does not need me in his corner, but to insist he is portraying his disease as more serious than it really is has to be the lowest of low, and I really think less of anyone who would buy into that for any reason

Fox is indeed a heck of a guy, and I am in his corner.
 
As I said, I like you, julia, and I've stuck up for you more than once here at CM, so if anything I said offended you, I apologize for that, but I can't apologize for my beliefs.






_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 6:03:22 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have no problem with people who are anti-abortion

I have a big problem with people that use the issue to win elections and demonize people with life threatening diseases.

I also have a big problem when a bunch of middle aged white men that have a bunch of money and better medical insurance than those of us who pay their way and then would deprive women and children of food and medical care because they want to spend that money to fight wars, and then turn around and insist these same women have to have babies they cannot afford.

I have no problem spending my tax dollars on women and children, especially if it is more likely that these women will choose to have babies that they would otherwise abort. There is a study about how economic factors lead to an increase in abortion. Single mothers are at the margins of this country, and if people spent more time and energy making this a better place to bring kids into maybe more people would have them.

Personally see it like this:
Embryo in petri dish as to acorn to oak.... just me could be wrong, but no one here can prove otherwise. I never felt i was commiting tree-icide by not planting an acorn.

Abortion to me is still a different issue, but I have already stated my opinion, which I stand by as you stand by yours.

Im not offended by your opinion, actually I am not offended by much on CM anymore, but my sensibilities are a little strained that those of us "on the left" (whatever that means these days) are purporting ethical superiority to those who are prolife. I have not done anything like that, I was merely pointing out how self righteous certain people are that want to force their ethics on to others because they are "prolife" yet consistently take positions that are not so, such as depriving children of nutitious food and medical care. If that is not your position then it is not aimed at you





_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 6:20:35 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Adoption is a wonderful thing.

.
Sure is.. especially if you are able bodied enough to take care of the child.  Trouble is, that little gem of an idea gets shot down as an option immediately.

I am sorry for this, truly.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 6:22:43 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

Start hijack.

Julia, I completely agree with you.  The pro-lifers are all about making sure the babies are born and then wash their hands of it.  They are not at all concerned with quality of life.  They want to make sure these babies are born, but they are part of the same group of people who cut medicaid and other benefits to these children.  If you are going to force them to be born, you're responsibility for them cannot stop at birth.

End hijack.


Please do not begin to tell me what I am all about.  You truly do not know.

(in reply to nefertari)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 6:29:51 PM   
GentlehandSTL


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Rush has a lot of intelligence, he can be quite funny, and he can make a persuasive point, especially in writing (I guess the written form allows him a chance to think before "speaking"...)
 
But....
 
He can also be cruel, idiotic, arrogant, close-minded, and breathtakingly hypocritical.


All that you said it true.

That doesn't mean that he's wrong...on this issue or on other issues.

If Fox didn't want all the attention, he should have stayed out of the fire. Understand, if Fox had elected to back the Missouri Prop #2 (stem cells) That would be fine with me...but he didn't. He backed the Democrat in a Senate race that has nothing to do with Stem Cells.

do that in Rush's home state and you call down the thunder.

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RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 6:29:58 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I read through most of the sites you provided, ownedgirlie, on this site.

The question I asked you was to provide scientific evidence to support your claim that umbilical cord stem cells are as effective as fetal stem cells.

You provided a long list of links talking about how effective umbilical cord stem cells are.  While I appreciate the links, you did not answer my question.

I simply do not know if it is a better option.  I was bringing it up for discussion, as no one seemed to want to talk about it as an option, or even a future option.

You in turn provided a 9 year old study that is likely outdated by now. 

I only wanted to bring the option up for discussion.  I do not have a means to answer your question of proving it is better.

quote:


What I have read on the subject seems to imply that umbilical stem cells are wonderful, but do not do many of the things which fetal stem cells do.  The studies I have most recently read involved mice, not humans, so there is another flaw in my position you may feel free to exploit should you so choose.

Exploit?  Why the hostility?  Can we not discuss/agree/disagree without hints of animosity?


quote:


It is an ethical question.  I take it from your answer to that that if your own (adopted or genetic) child was dying of something that could be saved using fetal stem cells, you would look your own child in the eyes and say "sorry, you have to die because I dont believe in using fetal stem cells to save your life."

You can assume all you wish, Sinergy.  That was not what I said or implied. I have been saying that the ethical questions need to be asked.  I have been bringing the "other side" up for discussion.  But it seems futile to continue a conversation with you if you wish to become mean spirited about it, so I will officially bow out.


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 8:17:08 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GentlehandSTL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Rush has a lot of intelligence, he can be quite funny, and he can make a persuasive point, especially in writing (I guess the written form allows him a chance to think before "speaking"...)
 
But....
 
He can also be cruel, idiotic, arrogant, close-minded, and breathtakingly hypocritical.


All that you said it true.

That doesn't mean that he's wrong...on this issue or on other issues.

If Fox didn't want all the attention, he should have stayed out of the fire. Understand, if Fox had elected to back the Missouri Prop #2 (stem cells) That would be fine with me...but he didn't. He backed the Democrat in a Senate race that has nothing to do with Stem Cells.

do that in Rush's home state and you call down the thunder.


Seems that Rush made a complete ass out of himself on this one, and no moderate person with half a clue would think that Fox intentionally made himself look sicker to get votes for someone

The best thing to do to Rush is ignore him, which I do and encourage everyone I know to do. It is not hard, since his party took power he lost his edge anyways.. it is hard to piss and moan when your boys run the show, who ya going to blame for how screwed up everything is? He continues to blame "liberals", but that is rather thin and trite since liberals have zero power in this country

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to GentlehandSTL)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 9:27:04 PM   
nefertari


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

Start hijack.

Julia, I completely agree with you.  The pro-lifers are all about making sure the babies are born and then wash their hands of it.  They are not at all concerned with quality of life.  They want to make sure these babies are born, but they are part of the same group of people who cut medicaid and other benefits to these children.  If you are going to force them to be born, you're responsibility for them cannot stop at birth.

End hijack.



Goddam..... talk about inflammatory rhetoric.


Rhetoric, no.  I live in Ohio with a Republican government.  The same people that want to end abortion in our state government are the same ones that wanted to cut medicaid last year.  Medicaid cuts severly hurt Ohio's children. 

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/washing/elections/mfs_oh.pdf

http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2005/4-medicaid.htm
How it hurts hospitals providing care for children which then affects children

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/healthlawprof_blog/2005/05/medicaid_cuts.html
Most people in Ohio would rather pay higher taxes on alcohol and cigarettes than cut medicaid

And we're not even talking about the lack of foster homes for those children that aren't wanted.

I am personally pro-life.  However, until we are prepared to take care of those unwanted children after they are born and until we can assure that 15 year old girls aren't going to die due to back alley abortions, I do not advocate banning abortion.  Besides the fact that I feel it is a moral issue and it is not my place to force my morals on another.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 9:28:18 PM   
nefertari


Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

Start hijack.

Julia, I completely agree with you.  The pro-lifers are all about making sure the babies are born and then wash their hands of it.  They are not at all concerned with quality of life.  They want to make sure these babies are born, but they are part of the same group of people who cut medicaid and other benefits to these children.  If you are going to force them to be born, you're responsibility for them cannot stop at birth.

End hijack.


Please do not begin to tell me what I am all about.  You truly do not know.


I did not reference you at all.  I also did not say that all pro-lifers wanted to do so.  I stated they are part of the same group that does.  Which is a fact.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 9:30:50 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

Start hijack.

Julia, I completely agree with you.  The pro-lifers are all about making sure the babies are born and then wash their hands of it.  They are not at all concerned with quality of life.  They want to make sure these babies are born, but they are part of the same group of people who cut medicaid and other benefits to these children.  If you are going to force them to be born, you're responsibility for them cannot stop at birth.

End hijack.


Please do not begin to tell me what I am all about.  You truly do not know.


I did not reference you at all.  I also did not say that all pro-lifers wanted to do so.  I stated they are part of the same group that does.  Which is a fact.


"The pro-lifers" appears all encompassing.  As opposed to "some" or "many pro-lifers."

Apparently I have misunderstood an unclear post.

(in reply to nefertari)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 9:46:54 PM   
nefertari


Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

Start hijack.

Julia, I completely agree with you.  The pro-lifers are all about making sure the babies are born and then wash their hands of it.  They are not at all concerned with quality of life.  They want to make sure these babies are born, but they are part of the same group of people who cut medicaid and other benefits to these children.  If you are going to force them to be born, you're responsibility for them cannot stop at birth.

End hijack.


Please do not begin to tell me what I am all about.  You truly do not know.


I did not reference you at all.  I also did not say that all pro-lifers wanted to do so.  I stated they are part of the same group that does.  Which is a fact.


"The pro-lifers" appears all encompassing.  As opposed to "some" or "many pro-lifers."

Apparently I have misunderstood an unclear post.


Sigh....now you're just being catty.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Rush, Fox, and Olberman - 10/29/2006 9:51:45 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari
Sigh....now you're just being catty.


I really wasn't, as that is not my style.  I apologize if I came across that way. 

(in reply to nefertari)
Profile   Post #: 100
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