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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 10:46:58 AM   
missturbation


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Status: offline 		If you're on the small end of the human range and you are hunting other humans, a knife is simply not the right weapon. 
Yours certainly seems to be the general opinion.
I couldnt quite agree with the gore factor either as it appears some female serial killers have bludgeoned and even some poisons can turn out to be a gorey affair.
 

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 10:48:21 AM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		"No female serial killer that has used a knife and eventually gotten caught!"

..is that because those females who use a knife basically don't get caught?

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 10:51:22 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"No female serial killer that has used a knife and eventually gotten caught!"

..is that because those females who use a knife basically don't get caught?


I wouldnt say so as plenty of females who have used knives in one of crimes (generally of passion) have been caught.


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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 10:57:31 AM   
thrall2Freyja


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Status: offline 		http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/tick/victims_1.html

check out this link for a full feature on serial killers, which I hope will explain what I wrote more fully.

I think if you add your statistics up to allow that the likes of "conviction" (which I take to mean some twisted religious based motive), and "thrill" are likely also concerned with sexual motivation, then the male serial killer is associated with the kind of motivations I listed. Presumably for instance Peter Sutcliffe would be down as a "conviction" case - but was concerned with punishing female prostitutes for their overt sexual transgressions against the God that spoke to him. We must also take into account that "no apparent motive" may be hiding a multitude of motives, and even without that, your statistics suggest up to 69% of those studied, had motives surrounding sexuality. Your statistics also show 33% of male serial killers wanting close contact with victims, and stabbing being joint front runner in method. I would also suspect that the methods listed here are the causes of death of the victims - so if the victim was suffocated and then stabbed, it shows as a suffocation rather than a stabbing.

What this all shows is that statistics can be very misleading unless fully explained by reference material - for instance, dependent on which serial killers one chooses to sample, the statistics can be biased in any way one wishes. We can also only rely on the killers' testimony, interpreted by psychologists, to determine their motivations.

I apologise for replying to your very interesting question and getting the wrong answer though. Perhaps you could be good enough to tell me the right answer now?

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 10:59:02 AM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"No female serial killer that has used a knife and eventually gotten caught!"

..is that because those females who use a knife basically don't get caught?


It's a thought that has occurred to me.

Take my basic mindset and desires, remove every vestige of ethics, conscience and common sense, and you could very possibly have a female serial killer, a hunter of human prey who would prefer to use a knife at least for the closeup work once the prey was down and disabled.  A couple more fundamental tweaks to the mentality I already have, and it could happen.  Could I think of ways to do it and never be caught or even suspected, since women just don't do stuff like that?  Sure could. 

So has there ever been somebody loose on the human race that was basically like me, but without the conscience that directs them to keep their hunting urges confined to the four legged and their urges for savage, feral, brutal, dominant sex to the safe and consensual?  From where I sit on the inside of a mind that works like that, I'd suggest that it's not only possible but quite probable. 

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 12:36:05 PM   
RiotGirl


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Status: offline 		I think women use poisening more because its more of a thought process.  Men tend to rely on strength and not through process.  (no slur intended)  They go for brute force.  Women on the other hand go for manipulative conniving methods. 

Think about it - Man walks up - slams knife into chest.
Woman - befriends future victem plays nice and then poisens them.  I'm sure i could be generally wrong here, but i think the brute force of the male attackes tends to be a less though out process. 

Women on the other hand are manipulative, sneaky, conniving, back stabbing and we like to take our time when we plan out some ones demise. 

Personally, if i was going to kill some one, i would go through the more planned out, great friends with my future victem approach.  They would never see it coming = )

Luckily, i've no intentions of killing anyone. 

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 12:58:56 PM   
TrueCalling


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Status: offline 		There are no hard and fast rules.... because something is not stated in a set of statistics does NOT mean it hasn't occured. As i said earlier, there are experts and profilers who do not even fully understand much of the why's and hows and such... That's all i have to say about that.

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:20:19 PM   
missturbation


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Status: offline 		Thank you for the link - i have already read it though.
 
I think if you add your statistics up to allow that the likes of "conviction" (which I take to mean some twisted religious based motive), and "thrill" are likely also concerned with sexual motivation, then the male serial killer is associated with the kind of motivations I listed
Conviction is yes the likes of voices in the head, cult killings, religious killings. Thrill killings are murders commited just for the thrill of murder. There is no sexual thrill listed in any of the conviction killings i found.
 
Presumably for instance Peter Sutcliffe would be down as a "conviction" case - but was concerned with punishing female prostitutes for their overt sexual transgressions against the God that spoke to him
Peter Sutcliffe took no sexual thrill from his killings. His motive was god had told him to kill them due to their sexual nature.
 
your statistics suggest up to 69% of those studied, had motives surrounding sexuality.
Considering 35% of male serial killers kill for lust and 14% have no apparent motive that only means 49% could possibly be seually motivated. I studied individual serial killers looking for all methods they used (some used more than one) and all motives (again sometimes more than one).
 
would also suspect that the methods listed here are the causes of death of the victims - so if the victim was suffocated and then stabbed, it shows as a suffocation rather than a stabbing.
You suspect wrong if a murder involved both i took both into account.
 
What this all shows is that statistics can be very misleading unless fully explained by reference material - for instance, dependent on which serial killers one chooses to sample, the statistics can be biased in any way one wishes.
I used every serial killer i could find information on. I was in no way biased with my selection.
 
I apologise for replying to your very interesting question and getting the wrong answer though. Perhaps you could be good enough to tell me the right answer now?
No need to apologise i wanted everyones views but that does not mean i havent got a right to question them or put my point of view forward on your answers. I dont have the answers, if i did i would have no reason to have posted here.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:23:03 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

I think women use poisening more because its more of a thought process.  Men tend to rely on strength and not through process.  (no slur intended)  They go for brute force.  Women on the other hand go for manipulative conniving methods. 

Think about it - Man walks up - slams knife into chest.
Woman - befriends future victem plays nice and then poisens them.  I'm sure i could be generally wrong here, but i think the brute force of the male attackes tends to be a less though out process. 

Women on the other hand are manipulative, sneaky, conniving, back stabbing and we like to take our time when we plan out some ones demise. 

Personally, if i was going to kill some one, i would go through the more planned out, great friends with my future victem approach.  They would never see it coming = )

Luckily, i've no intentions of killing anyone. 



I tend to agree with this and it seems to be a general consensus too.
I think with more female killers knowing there victims they have the luxury of time to plan.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:26:38 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TrueCalling

There are no hard and fast rules.... because something is not stated in a set of statistics does NOT mean it hasn't occured. As i said earlier, there are experts and profilers who do not even fully understand much of the why's and hows and such... That's all i have to say about that.


If experts and profilers do not fully understand - how do u understand enough to say there are no hard and fast rules? Just because noone has found them yet, doesnt mean they dont exist.
As for the pulling apart of statistics yet again i have stated over and over in this thread and in the opening question i have no illusions about them not being 100% correct.
 


_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:31:44 PM   
TrueCalling


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Status: offline 		I am not a 'u' but i suspect your comments are directed at me...For one thing i am degreed in criminal justice...and have always been interested in many aspects of it all. If your intention is to challenge what i say, that is fine - you are certainly entitled to. Unlike some <snicker> i don't have all the answers and therefore only speak about that with which i am familiar. Any idea on what you plan to read next?! (hoping she can take a joke)

cc

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:35:14 PM   
TrueCalling


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Status: offline 		One thing i neglected... Don't you think that if there were 'rules' as to who kils whoever and with what/how... this whole thread would be moot? That's like saying.... 'If sub A gets mad at sub B for sending email to her Dominant, the rule dictates A kills B via cyanide laced email" Hey, if this works for anyone, let me know!

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:38:14 PM   
TrueCalling


Posts: 97
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Status: offline 		Here's the other letter l for kills! I didn't know how to edit it!

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:39:21 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TrueCalling

I am not a 'u' but i suspect your comments are directed at me...For one thing i am degreed in criminal justice...and have always been interested in many aspects of it all. If your intention is to challenge what i say, that is fine - you are certainly entitled to. Unlike some <snicker> i don't have all the answers and therefore only speak about that with which i am familiar. Any idea on what you plan to read next?! (hoping she can take a joke)

cc


I don't think anyone has all the answers on this subject to be honest and i dont think we ever will have. Criminal justice? Wouldnt this be more criiminal pyschology? I'm not challenging what you say i'm questioning it, finding the reasons for your beliefs. Im not the kind of person who sits back and thinks that i should just accept what someone is saying so if my natural curiosity offends you then ....... well i dont know what to say as i certainly wont apologise for it.
As for what ill read next - who knows!! Dont think it will be anything on serial killers though as i got some pretty weird looks reading the encyclopedia of female killers on the train and even had a parent move their kids. Maybe that had nothing to do with the book though and more to do with how i look.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to TrueCalling)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:41:19 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TrueCalling

One thing i neglected... Don't you think that if there were 'rules' as to who kils whoever and with what/how... this whole thread would be moot? That's like saying.... 'If sub A gets mad at sub B for sending email to her Dominant, the rule dictates A kills B via cyanide laced email" Hey, if this works for anyone, let me know!


I agree with you totally but all i was trying to point out is that just because we havent found the hard and fast rules doesnt mean there arent any. Surely nothing can be ruled out.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:44:58 PM   
TrueCalling


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Status: offline 		(Falling dead to the ground) She agrees, she agrees!  Now, about that next book..<G>

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:47:00 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TrueCalling

(Falling dead to the ground) She agrees, she agrees!  Now, about that next book..<G>


Lol it happens on occasion.
Any suggestions for my next book?

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:53:22 PM   
TrueCalling


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Status: offline 		If you are interested Schechter does write some good books..They are a bit slow going at times i think due to the fact that they are set in a different era. Sadly time doesn't allow me to read like i used to..let me know what you do choose to read though- i gotta get prepared!

colleen

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 1:59:01 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TrueCalling

If you are interested Schechter does write some good books..They are a bit slow going at times i think due to the fact that they are set in a different era. Sadly time doesn't allow me to read like i used to..let me know what you do choose to read though- i gotta get prepared!

colleen

 
Someone else mentioned his books so ok i'll give one of those a go.
I'll let you know which one lol. 
Edited to add :-
Ive gone for deranged - most fiendish serial killer about albert fish
and depraved - first serial killer about hh holmes.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 10/30/2006 2:09:24 PM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 6:21:08 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thrall2Freyja
The knife is a penis. The whole ritual of the male serial killer is a confusion of frustrated lust and the eventual outburst of angry violence.


That may be an accurate psychological profile of the typical male serial killer, but not all minds work that way.  When I'm amusing myself by butchering prey, my knife is not a penis.  It's just a more effective tool than my hands and teeth to get to the good stuff.  Scissors and saws work fine also, and I can do a more effective job of caching my kill with good tools.  The fun to be had here isn't sexual, but an entirely different though equally primal appetite. 

What drives me to hunt and kill is not sex, but it is pretty damn powerful.  A couple more tweaks to this particular type of brain wiring, and there goes your serial killer who isn't driven by sex at all.   

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