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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/30/2006 6:31:12 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TrueCalling

No female serial killer that has used a knife and eventually gotten caught!  I think for a female it is a little too messy and gory.



Hello A/all,

What I have learned teaching self defense against weapon attacks would include a few answers to this.

First off, a person who decides to kill somebody (premeditation) has to overcome the societal objections to murder imprinted on them from a young age.

They then sit down and think to themself, what weapon should I use?

The look at their gun, their knife, their poison, their rope, their hands, whatever, and make the decision based on what they themself fear the most.

I love knives.  But there is an intimacy to them which both repels and attracts people. 

A gun, for the most part, is chosen because the person believes that they cannot be defeated by it.  From my experience, a gun is really not nearly as dangerous as a knife.  The deadly part emanates from the end with the hole in it, and if the hole is not pointing at you, you wont get shot.

Strangulation requires opportunity and some degree of physical strength.

Women tend to not think in terms of being able to overcome a man with physical strength or skill with weapons.  So I would imagine they would be unlikely to choose knives or strangulation.

In my limited experience, guns tend to make most people rather nervous.  They think "what if it doesnt go off" and the like.

Whereas drain cleaner in a guys coffee will probably dispatch them without anybody being any the wiser, or with a nice suicide note.

Killing another human being, from what I have learned, is a very intimate act.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/31/2006 1:07:59 PM   
missturbation


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Status: offline 		The look at their gun, their knife, their poison, their rope, their hands, whatever, and make the decision based on what they themself fear the most.
Sorry don't quite understand what you are saying here. Are you saying a killer would use the method that frightened them most?
Women tend to not think in terms of being able to overcome a man with physical strength or skill with weapons.  So I would imagine they would be unlikely to choose knives or strangulation.
I still cant find any serial killers female who used knives, 4% have used strangulation though. Interestingly when i looked back at those cases the majority of strangualtions were on children or old people. Fits your overcoming a man with physical strength theory.

Najak charmerWhat drives me to hunt and kill is not sex, but it is pretty damn powerful.  A couple more tweaks to this particular type of brain wiring, and there goes your serial killer who isn't driven by sex at all.    
The majority of male serial killers i founds motivation was sexual but up until now i had not found one female serial killer with a sexual motive. I thought this was probably down to the difficulty a woman would have raping a man. I have now found two cases of female serial killers that had a sexual motive be it only secondary.
Gwendoline gail graham and catherine wood were lovers. There murderous spree started out as a game. They wanted to find victims that would spell out the word murder. They bored of this though and decided to suffocate old ladies in the care home they worked at. When they were caught they said that they had got an emotional release from the killings and that just talking about killing was enough to fill both of them with an uncontrollable desire for sex.
Gesina Marggaretha gottfried poisoned four people, her motive was elimination. She did say though that the murders had given her great satisfaction, an ecstacy not unlike a sexual orgasm.
Ok lust was a secondary motive but still a motive. Guess that changes my statistics.  

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/31/2006 7:39:49 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

If you're on the small end of the human range and you are hunting other humans, a knife is simply not the right weapon. 
Yours certainly seems to be the general opinion.
I couldnt quite agree with the gore factor either as it appears some female serial killers have bludgeoned and even some poisons can turn out to be a gorey affair.
 


Hello A/all,

I would imagine this is more due to the female serial killers not feeling on some deep rat-brain level that they would succeed in killing somebody with a knife.
A knife is a profoundly intimate weapon to use. 

A person who intends to kill somebody else looks at all the weapons at their disposal and picks the one they think will be most effective.

Woman in general may not think a knife would be sufficient means to kill somebody.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Whats in a killing? - 10/31/2006 7:41:30 PM   
Sinergy


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Status: offline 		On a related note, killing somebody is a deeply limbic-system, adrenalized response.

A person who kills somebody has to overcome a tremendous amount of emotional energy to do it.  Killers tend to be monogamous with their method of dispatch because their rat-brain knows the method they used the last time worked.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/1/2006 10:44:55 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
A person who kills somebody has to overcome a tremendous amount of emotional energy to do it.  Killers tend to be monogamous with their method of dispatch because their rat-brain knows the method they used the last time worked.\


Do serial killer minds work this way?  One of the things that makes me think that my particular set of brain wiring would make for a potential serial killer if the ethics and common sense were removed is that killing is not an intimate or emotionally charged act for me.  I don't hunt people because they're an impractical prey choice for a whole list of reasons.  But emotion doesn't factor into it.  I don't seem to have any mental or emotional block against the idea of people as prey.  I don't have a specific desire to hunt humans.  Deer are bigger and tastier.  But that particular button in my head does get pushed by humans too. Not because they're human; more in total disregard for it.  The part of my brain that is wired that way doesn't actually register much difference between a bipedal primate and a quadrupedal herbivore, except that the quadruped looks and smells a lot tastier and can't fight back as effectively.  Ergo, the quadruped is more desirable prey.  But they're both still made of meat.

I can't be the only person wired this way.  My guess is that among the other folks who are wired this way, some of them may well be serial killers.  Just a couple more minor changes to this mindset, and I would not want to meet me in a dark alley.  


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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/2/2006 11:06:37 AM   
missturbation


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Status: offline 		 don't hunt people because they're an impractical prey choice for a whole list of reasons.  But emotion doesn't factor into it.  I don't seem to have any mental or emotional block against the idea of people as prey.
But that particular button in my head does get pushed by humans too. Not because they're human; more in total disregard for it

Would i be the only one that finds these statements a little scarey?
 
On another note i'm driving myself mental trying to find a female serial killer whos method was by knife - anyone please know of one?
 
Another note a female serial killer whos prime motive was lust?

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/2/2006 11:55:49 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Another note a female serial killer whos prime motive was lust?


Yes, Bradford miss.

Myra Hindley.
Rose West.


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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/2/2006 1:53:32 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Another note a female serial killer whos prime motive was lust?



Yes, Bradford miss.

Myra Hindley.
Rose West.

No and no.
Myra hindley falls in the conviction killing category. She said she was forced to do it. Ian brady was the lust killer in the duo. Maybe Myra did kill for sexual thrill but it is not a proved or primary motive.
Rose West again although a prostitute and sexual deviant (as the media portrayed her) didnt according to her kill for a lust motive. She claims she was a conviction killer led by fred and there is no real proof otherwise.
I was looking for a female serial killer who worked alone and could not blame anyone else for what occured. There are too many unknowns about the relationships between myra hindley and ian brady and rose and fred west to say that they killed for lust.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/2/2006 5:59:59 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Would i be the only one that finds these statements a little scarey?


Probably not.  I used to find it disturbing that my mind worked that way, but at this point I just find it clinically interesting.  After a lifetime of living with this mindset, I know for a fact that I can be trusted not to commit any acts that don't fall into the safe, sane and consensual (and legal) category.  So the fact that my hindbrain is much more "big carnivore" than it is human, with all of the impulses and immediate desires of a hunting carnivore coming through intact, is relevant only in a "well that's interesting" sense.  I channel it constructively and safely, and that's all.  

I didn't choose this set of brain wiring, but I think do a reasonably decent job of being a sane and rational adult professional and a productive member of society with what I've got to work with, even if it isn't quite the norm.  Someone who was wired like me and either didn't choose or wasn't able to cope with it constructively and safely would be a very scary person indeed.  So it makes me wonder if there's other folks like that out there. 

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/3/2006 10:51:05 AM   
missturbation


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Status: offline 		Sorry Najak - i didnt mean to offend you. Your total honesty of your 'mindset' amazes me. Not many people can see themselves so honestly.
 
Oh and northern gent i owe you an apology too - i read my last post to you and it read really harsh. Im just frustrated that i cant find what im looking for - sorry hun.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/3/2006 11:21:36 AM   
Najakcharmer


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Status: offline 		Eh?  I didn't percieve anything you wrote as a personal attack or an offense, merely the honest (and expected) opinion that it's disturbing to know that there's someone walking around who looks entirely human and normal but thinks and reacts on a fundamental gut level like a nonsentient carnivorous animal that assesses every other animal as literal prey.

I brought it up because it is a very interesting question as to how many other people may be wired this way, and how few tweaks it would take to get a serial killer from this mindset.




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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/3/2006 12:01:52 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
The look at their gun, their knife, their poison, their rope, their hands, whatever, and make the decision based on what they themself fear the most.


Sorry don't quite understand what you are saying here. Are you saying a killer would use the method that frightened them most?

[/quote

That is exactly what I am saying.

Killing is a very intimate act and one in which a person has to overcome a massive amount of adrenal stress to perform.

Killers also tend to be monogamous with their weapon of choice for this reason.  I suppose their limbic system knows the method they used the last time worked.

Interesting what you wrote about female serial killers.  Statistically, a serial killer is most likely to be a white, middle-upper middle class male between 35 and 45 years old.

Why investigators tend to look in that bracket first...

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/3/2006 12:08:27 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Would i be the only one that finds these statements a little scarey?


Probably not.  I used to find it disturbing that my mind worked that way, but at this point I just find it clinically interesting.  After a lifetime of living with this mindset, I know for a fact that I can be trusted not to commit any acts that don't fall into the safe, sane and consensual (and legal) category.  So the fact that my hindbrain is much more "big carnivore" than it is human, with all of the impulses and immediate desires of a hunting carnivore coming through intact, is relevant only in a "well that's interesting" sense.  I channel it constructively and safely, and that's all.  

I didn't choose this set of brain wiring, but I think do a reasonably decent job of being a sane and rational adult professional and a productive member of society with what I've got to work with, even if it isn't quite the norm.  Someone who was wired like me and either didn't choose or wasn't able to cope with it constructively and safely would be a very scary person indeed.  So it makes me wonder if there's other folks like that out there. 



I am not frightened by it at all.

As Najakcharmer states, she is a productive member of society and chooses not to go around killing people.

People who think that if proscriptions against killing are not hard-wired into a person's brain, they will somehow become Richard Ramirez seem to live in a dream world, to me.

I dont really hunt anything any more.  I have at times in my life.  I suppose I could go out and do it again.  There are any number of reasons I do not kill things, but these are my own personal choices.  If I was trapped in a plane crash in the Andes and had a choice between eating a dead fellow soccer player or starving to death, I suspect I would choose the former.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/3/2006 12:13:04 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
A person who kills somebody has to overcome a tremendous amount of emotional energy to do it.  Killers tend to be monogamous with their method of dispatch because their rat-brain knows the method they used the last time worked.\


Do serial killer minds work this way? 



From what I have read about it, the answer is yes.  I could be wrong about why that is, but from what I know about the subject, it is the act of killing which the serial killer is going for.  One method of doing so is as good as another one, and why not stick with something that works?

Although serial killers (Jeffery Dahmer comes to mind) tend to be completely detached from any emotional connection to other people.  When interviewed about their crimes, the interviewers tended to be shocked that the killer's vocal tones and body language hardly changed at all whether they were talking about how they killed somebody or what they had for dinner the night before. 

Additionally, they generally had no emotional back off about talking about their crimes.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/3/2006 8:14:56 PM   
deadlylover


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Status: offline 		In answer to miss trying to find a female who used a knife--Darlie Routier did when she stabbed her two sons. So far she is the only one I have found who has used a knife of some sort but I'm not sure if you'd classify her as a serial killer or not.

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/4/2006 1:40:09 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation


quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Another note a female serial killer whos prime motive was lust?




Yes, Bradford miss.

Myra Hindley.
Rose West.

No and no.
Myra hindley falls in the conviction killing category. She said she was forced to do it. Ian brady was the lust killer in the duo. Maybe Myra did kill for sexual thrill but it is not a proved or primary motive.
Rose West again although a prostitute and sexual deviant (as the media portrayed her) didnt according to her kill for a lust motive. She claims she was a conviction killer led by fred and there is no real proof otherwise.
I was looking for a female serial killer who worked alone and could not blame anyone else for what occured. There are too many unknowns about the relationships between myra hindley and ian brady and rose and fred west to say that they killed for lust.


Debatable and debatable.

Hindley was/is recorded on tape getting off on torturing and murdering children which is the reason why she was not granted release upon serving her sentence. It was this knowledge that meant there was such public pressure to keep her locked up. Her story that she was forced to do it did not wash in the face of blatant evidence to the contrary.

Also, does it have to be physical to be lust? You can kill for sexual kicks and use poison as the tool to achieve these kicks?



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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/4/2006 1:47:14 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Oh and northern gent i owe you an apology too - i read my last post to you and it read really harsh. Im just frustrated that i cant find what im looking for - sorry hun.


Hey, not at all miss, I took it as fair comment.

It's fair to say that female serial killers are rare so you have your work cut out finding an obvious example of one who has killed out of lust.

There must be a criminology society website that you'll be able to send an e-mail to?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/4/2006 7:16:32 AM   
missturbation


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Status: offline 		Hindley was/is recorded on tape getting off on torturing and murdering children which is the reason why she was not granted release upon serving her sentence. It was this knowledge that meant there was such public pressure to keep her locked up. Her story that she was forced to do it did not wash in the face of blatant evidence to the contrary.
I know what you are saying i have read the books but i still believe Ian brady had some influence over her. I'm looking for a female serial killer who worked alone that killed for lust.
Also, does it have to be physical to be lust? You can kill for sexual kicks and use poison as the tool to achieve these kicks?
Nope it doesnt but other than those i found with a secondary motive of lust i cant find one whos sole intent of murder was the lust motive. Again im looking for a female serial killer who worked alone and with lust as a primary motive.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Whats in a killing? - 11/4/2006 7:18:25 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: deadlylover

In answer to miss trying to find a female who used a knife--Darlie Routier did when she stabbed her two sons. So far she is the only one I have found who has used a knife of some sort but I'm not sure if you'd classify her as a serial killer or not.

Unfortunately not. The FBI states a serial killer as someone who has killed between 3 and 5 times all on seperate occasions. I found plenty of females who used knives as a one of crime of passion but not serial killers.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 79
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