RE: Political Compass (Full Version)

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sweetpleaser -> RE: Political Compass (2/2/2005 10:19:09 AM)

You kind of hit where the Pope does. You believe in more social matters but want authority involved somewhat. My best guess.[:)]




sub4hire -> RE: Political Compass (2/2/2005 2:37:54 PM)

Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.26




Mercnbeth -> RE: Political Compass (2/2/2005 4:22:16 PM)

I AM Friedman & proud.

Economic Left/Right +5.50
Social Lib/Authoritarian: -0.77




mantis65 -> RE: Political Compass (2/2/2005 4:57:57 PM)

Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

heres mine




onceburned -> RE: Political Compass (2/2/2005 6:27:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir

mine was:
Left/RigEconomic Left/right= -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritar= 1.59

Can anyone tell me what that means?




Since no one else has spoken up, I'll be the one who makes a fool of themselves. [:)]

I think it means that you are pretty much in the center, although you have a slight preference for seeing a social safety net.




sub4hire -> RE: Political Compass (2/2/2005 7:40:19 PM)

If you scroll down on the results page it pretty much tells you what fool you most resemble. In views of course.





Manawyddan -> RE: Political Compass (2/2/2005 8:30:30 PM)

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.10

The closest celebrity to me on the chart is the Dali Lama!




rubytuesday -> RE: Political Compass (2/2/2005 10:30:16 PM)

Ok so i got

Economic -5.13
Social - 2.72

In good company with Topcat give or take a - - hmmm wonder if ghandi was a sub??????????

smiles
ruby




pantera -> RE: Political Compass (2/3/2005 7:08:38 AM)

I'm surprised to see most people so negative to the left in economy issues...very few positive ones (Mercnbeth is (are) one... (I guess it's all the lack of trust for corporations) but hey...they, and the small business owners are the employers!




ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Political Compass (2/3/2005 7:41:35 AM)

i didn't get this test i guess because i didn't even really understand the results too well, but i found the questions to be a bit biast and even ridiculous for the most part, if we're talking about politically leaning towards the left or right i am definately towards the right, yet my scores would seem a bit to the left, unless i was reading into the questions and results completely wrong, which might be the case.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Political Compass (2/3/2005 10:16:53 AM)

Remember panera, a right sided economist is a former left sided economist who has made some money. A politically Libertarian leaning positive economist is a someone who's 'had it' and 'lost it' most often through government interference or intervention.

And then of course there are the ultra wealthy far left sided economists. Examples such as Ted Turner, Barbara Streisand (or most Hollywood 'stars' for that matter - Governor Arnold and Clint Eastwood the exceptions), Mrs. Kerry (heir to the Heinz family fortune, Ted Kennedy, and the biggest "business" in the world - the Catholic Church. All espousing social reform, but all living similarly as Saddam Hussein used to - in personal palaces. The hypocrisy of their lives is laughable.

Only Gandhi, and Mother Theresa lived as they preached from the social and economic left.

The right is more honest and pragmatic. There purpose IS to make money, live well, and pass something down to their children. They are more generous in their charity; for example, who would you think gave more to charity the billionaire Kerry's or the Bush's? In the submitted tax statements prior to the election it was the Bush's. How many people could have been fed from the money paid by Heinz for the naming rights of the football stadium in Pittsburgh? Their cry, "Let them eat Ketchup!"

And NO they don't have to do it - it's the hypocrisy of their position on social welfare support that flies against their actual activity.




iwillserveu -> RE: Political Compass (2/4/2005 1:47:10 PM)

quote:

Are you sick of being pigeonholed into a simplistic and insufficient liberal/conservative label? I know I am. Take this simple test to determine where you stand in a 'marginally' less simplistic political spectrum.

www.politicalcompass.org

my results:
Economic Left/Right: -3.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.00


Best,
Joshua



The questions are a tad bit slanted, I think. Try another quiz




Thanatosian -> RE: Political Compass (2/5/2005 10:28:59 AM)

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 3.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.97


a double positive - guess that makes me the 'black sheep' of this flock[;)]




sweetpleaser -> RE: Political Compass (2/5/2005 2:56:22 PM)

That's okay, we still like you!![:)]




MrThorns -> RE: Political Compass (2/10/2005 3:09:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Remember panera, a right sided economist is a former left sided economist who has made some money. A politically Libertarian leaning positive economist is a someone who's 'had it' and 'lost it' most often through government interference or intervention.


I thought a right-sided economist was someone that "earned" their money by the exploitation of cheap labor while lobbying for laws that ensure that the American caste system remains fully intact.

quote:

And then of course there are the ultra wealthy far left sided economists. Examples such as Ted Turner, Barbara Streisand (or most Hollywood 'stars' for that matter - Governor Arnold and Clint Eastwood the exceptions), Mrs. Kerry (heir to the Heinz family fortune, Ted Kennedy, and the biggest "business" in the world - the Catholic Church. All espousing social reform, but all living similarly as Saddam Hussein used to - in personal palaces. The hypocrisy of their lives is laughable.


Yes...of course...those damned, greedy hollywood actors, while good, hard working American patriots like the Bushes, Leys, Hestons, and Limbaughs have to spoon together for warmth in their studio apartments.

quote:


The right is more honest and pragmatic. There purpose IS to make money, live well, and pass something down to their children.


I call bullshit. Trying to claim that someone is more honest because of their political or economic leanings...gah! Its a grossly generalized blanket statement. The right's purpose is to make money. Ok... so is the left's. Who in this country isn't out to make a buck? You need money to survive in this society. How you choose to make that money is the question. Do you make money by taking unfair advantage of your clients and employees? Or do you offer a good service at a reasonable price? I believe that the good, charitable folks at WorldCom and Enron were pretty big Bush supporters, weren't they?

Well...okay...so what. Kerry looks like Herman Munster and that was a far more important issue for the country to worry about.

quote:


They are more generous in their charity;

Again...blanket statement....calling bullshit.

How much personal time do conservatives give to charity versus liberals? I mean...you can't write that time off as a deduction, so I think more conservatives would rather go for something that will give them cash back on a tax return.

The conservative economic model doesn't work. Bush has proven that it doesn't work. Bush has had 4 years to blame Clinton for the state of the economy...now, he has no one to blame but himself and those that kept him in office.





Mercnbeth -> RE: Political Compass (2/10/2005 4:56:29 PM)

Mr. Thorns,
quote:

I thought a right-sided economist was someone that "earned" their money by the exploitation of cheap labor while lobbying for laws that ensure that the American caste system remains fully intact.


Yes, so? 10,000 new businesses are started every month in the US - that option is open to anyone not liking the facts of economic life working for someone else. Lobbyists? The union lobbies are always working for the people aren't they? More, other side of the spectrum, lobbies; environmentalists (Rainforest action Network or Sierra Club for 2), AARP (Gray Panthers), Nader-ettes. I'd say there is a balance of special interest. Need a lobbyiest for any cause, go to this site: http://www.csuchico.edu/~kcfount/alpha.html

But I love the "American caste system" reference. Ever been to a place that actually has a caste system? Here, with money, no place is off limits. (Well maybe some country clubs are hard to get into, but those people are too stodgy anyway.) There are way too many examples of people who came from the lowest 'caste' situation only to rise to power and wealth in the US. Try it in India, or even Japan.

quote:

Do you make money by taking unfair advantage of your clients and employees? Or do you offer a good service at a reasonable price?


Define "unfair" and "reasonable". The employees, no one is chained to a desk. (Well, maybe the kinky ones - but I don't play where I work.) Prices? I deal in money, everyone's is the same shade. I offer 'preferred' rates to everyone - it's the rate I prefer to charge - again, usually, without a gun to their head. The first IBM PC computer cost about $5,000.00 and came with less memory then the watch on my wrist. But that was a reasonable price. What I find 'un-reasonable' is that 40% of price of a car that I want to buy and 60% of the price of the gas that goes into it is to pay for lawsuits, insurance, or taxes to support such great causes as the study of the endangered blind cave newt in Colorado.

quote:

I call bullshit.

Now that's got more points that I can argue.

quote:

Trying to claim that someone is more honest because of their political or economic leanings.

I'd much prefer to know the person on the other side of the negotiating table is in it for the money.

quote:

Kerry looks like Herman Munster

Now you see, I considered that a good trait about him. The only one.

quote:

calling bullshit

(see above "bullshit" reference.)

quote:

you can't write that time off as a deduction,

Actually you can. Any professional donating time to a registered charity is permitted to 'write-off' his time based on their usually hourly rate. 'Professional' is broadly defined in the statute. However, if your time is worthless, then you don't get to deduct it. Keep this in mind, without deductions for charitable contributions MANY charities would be out of business. Some, like NPR/PBS deserve to be so. And even if you don't donate to NPR/PBS, your tax dollars are to the tune of Millions of dollars per year.

quote:

Bush has proven that it doesn't work.

I'm on record as a non-Bush supporter. This time Bush received both the majority popular vote and the electoral vote. I also think it unfortunate that this country couldn't come up with anything better. My consideration of Kerry was akin to his voting record in the Senate. Some days I was going to vote for him, some days not. Sometimes I meant to vote for him, but didn't. Some days I voted against him but really meant to vote for him.

I'm looking forward to the 2008 race - Hillary Clinton v. Condoleezza Rice (ummm - CAT FIGHT!!)

quote:

The conservative economic model doesn't work.

Pick an option, Communism? A self-perpetuating autocracy? Socialism? An anarcho-syndicalist commune where people take turns and act as a sort of executive-officer-for-the-week? (Obscure movie references in there!)

I LOVE political debate! However a basic debating rule should apply - critique & criticism should require an alternative solution. 'Contrarian' is NOT a political party; not officially yet anyway.




pantera -> RE: Political Compass (2/11/2005 3:34:00 PM)

Even though I can't provide specific data or direct you to a website, I know that there was a survey done that determined that in Republican/ Conservative states, people donated more to charity than in those that were predominantly (sp) Democrat/ Liberal.


and that "conservative economic model" is called Capitalism if I'm not mistaken...and YES, IT WORKS. Not only does it work in an excellent fashion and with an efficiency second to none, but is the one system that it's FAIR. Please know that I'm talking about capitalism in copuntries like the USA and not those full of corruption, etc

If anyone would like everyday life examples of how socialism "works", just let me know..I'd be happy to share a couple of instances.

POSITIVE 8 IN THE ECONOMIC SCALE AND PROUD!!!!! LOL!!!







Mercnbeth -> RE: Political Compass (2/11/2005 7:09:26 PM)

pantera,
Thanks for the nod, but more importantly can you identify the movie this reference is derived; "We are an anarcho-syndicalist commune where people take turns and act as a sort of executive-officer-for-the-week."?




MrThorns -> RE: Political Compass (2/12/2005 1:31:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

pantera,
Thanks for the nod, but more importantly can you identify the movie this reference is derived; "We are an anarcho-syndicalist commune where people take turns and act as a sort of executive-officer-for-the-week."?

Monty Python and the Holy Grail ...of course.

But back to the discussion...
The caste system in India is based on religion. With one or two exceptions, you are locked into that caste forever. (Exceptions historically being the warrior caste and the priesthood if I remember correctly.) In the US, millions of people are similarily locked into their position for life. Not trapped by religion, but by their financial status.

You said that "...with money, no place is off limits..." and you are absolutely right. If someone is arrested for a crime, those with money can buy their freedom until the trial by posting bail. Those without the money can sit in a cell until tried. So there are definate limits on ones freedoms without money.

Those with money can hire lobbyists to protect their interests

Credit. The almight FICO score. Why is it that one person can put 20% down on a home to avoid mortgage insurance, get an outstanding interest rate, and minimal closing costs while another person who cant afford the 20% down has to pay mortgage insurance, plus higher closing costs at a higher rate of interest? Things are cheaper if you have more money.

Yes, thousands of people crawl out from under the poverty line every year. (but end up making less money because they are now in a new tax bracket... so maybe they cant pay a credit card that month...it affects their credit...late fees, service fees, student loans are due..bam. Stuck.)

It takes money to make money. If you don't have the money on hand, you'd better have the credit because you're not going to get a small business loan without it.

I know this sounds like a lot of "Poor me" or "Poor them" whining. I agree with the idea of every american having an opportunity to succeed. I don't agree that every american has the same opportunity. I don't think it's right that people with money are entitled to a better legal defence than those without. I don't think it's right that some voices are heard louder than others because of the side of their wallet. (This goes for liberals too, btw.) Competition in business..fine, wonderful. Capitalism works. (btw, Pantera...hate to tell ya this, but Capitalism has been around for quite a bit longer than "Conservatives" have been. Its an ancient concept...but I digress....) I don't believe that the conservative economic model works. The way I interpret that model is so:

1-Government encourages the free market economy by not regulating anything about how a company chooses to do business.

Problem- Some regulations are necessary to protect the environment, the employee, and to reduce corruption.

Solution- Reestablish laws that protect the environment. Provide incentives for companies that upgrade their facilities to be less harmful to the environment. Establish harsher penalties for those that fail to comply with the law. Enforce those laws. Develop a sense of responsibility for the employee. Provide tax breaks to corporations that provide day care, medical care, housing assistance, or tuition assistance to their employees.

2-Reduce taxes that fund social programs, as people should be responsible for taking care of themselves without the government.

Problem-Most people are not financially responsible. I wish it weren't so. I think the government needs to take on that responsibility to ensure that people can care for themselves.

Solution- one example: Social Security. A temporary program that we became dependent upon. So fix it by taking a percentage of each worker's gross pay and investing it for them. Each person has a say in where that money goes. Lets say we have three options and you can choose to change where the money gets invested each month: One, you may invest this money in a mutual fund, stock option, etc. Two: an IRA, Three: a CD or savings bond. People have the freedom to withdraw a small percentage of this fund at anytime. Point is that the money is working for them, in an investment of their choice, and there will be something for them to retire on.

3-Give tax refunds to the people with the hope that they will turn around and invest that money into the economy by purchasing goods and services, or by saving for their own retirement.

Hmm...of all the people I know who got a tax return I can only think of two that invested their money. Those that didn't invest spent that "extra" money on some form of instant gratification. Okay...wondermous. So, down the road, in their years of dotage, they become a burden on the system because they didn't plan for the future.

Defining "fair" and "reasonable":

I think that if you sell an item to one person for 5 bucks you should sell that same item to the next person for 5 bucks, regardless of how much money he makes.

I don't think the rich should be taxed more than the poor, but I do think that the impact paying those taxes have on one's personal finances should be equal. Example: Flat tax rate on all income.

I think it's reasonable to charge someone for medical care.
I think it's unreasonable to bankrupt a family because their child has leukemia and the insurance won't cover the costs.

Pick an option? Heh. I'm for benevolent dictatorship.

Communism doesn't work. Democracy has far too much bureaucratic nonsense about it, democratic republics keep fighting over who's rights are more important. I would love to see the US government encourage personal responsibility and take on responsibility for the well being of its citizens. I want to see an end to one group's individual values leading to the legislation of the collective. I think there should be a restraining order on lobbiests keeping them at least 500 ft away from all government officials. I think Congress should be paid minimum wage, but have all of their living expenses paid for by the state while they are in office.
gads...I'm ranting.
Bottom line:
Capitalism is great. Competition is wonderful. I just want to see the playing field leveled out.


Take care,

~Thorns










pantera -> RE: Political Compass (2/12/2005 2:48:01 AM)

quote:

In the US, millions of people are similarily locked into their position for life. Not trapped by religion, but by their financial status.
quote:




thorns, you do great when it comes to movies, but in economy you need a little bit of help. What you stated there is false.

1. In this country people put themselves where they are by the decisions they make in life. It is not a matter of "luck" or "fortune"

2. The same people that at one point are consider "poor" (and I think people use that word very loosely in this country) are middle class or higher (or lower if that's what they wish) 5 or 10 years down the road. So nobody is locked in their position ....well...some people are...but that's not what we are talking about LOL!!!

3. How do you explain that immigrants who come to this country with nothing, in a few years are holding a good job (or a not so great one) or better yet have their own business and are doing well? I can tell you: good work ethics and good decision making.


I have some clients that cannot read or write (this is true, specially some of my older clients of mexico and central america), but they are buying their own home.

So Espinas, it's all about POWER and how much you think you have. You either have the power to be in charge of your future, or you think you are helplessly bound to fail.





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