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Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 6:44:57 PM

Kalira

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Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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Hmm, ok, I am feeling in a fiesty mood tonight; enough to get some tempers flaring over this debate about "how far would you really go to obey your Dominant/Master".

So often we hear the argument that submissives/slaves, if told to jump off a cliff, would do so without question ( Ok ok, extreme, but since that is the example that most use, then I will use it here )

But...how many have actually DID something that extreme simply because they were told to? Without hesitation, and without question?

I was with my late Master for almost 5 years; I was on the roof with him helping to reshingle; I was sitting at the edge resting for a minute when I heard him behind me tell me to jump off.

I jumped; without hesitation and without question. Shattered my knee when I landed, and dislocated my shoulder. So, why did I jump? Blind obedience without a thought for my own safety?

No. I jumped because I knew, without a doubt, and without question, that he would not have told me to do so without there being one hell of a good reason. While tearing off the old shingles, he had uncovered a bee hive. I have a severe allergy to bee stings. His telling me to jump, saved my life. Literally.

So...who else has actually ever been told to do something that foolhardy, and has done so without question and without hesitation?

edited because I can't spell apparantly

< Message edited by Kalira -- 11/3/2006 6:47:29 PM >

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

Post #: 1

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 6:52:58 PM

KatyLied

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Wasn't there a calmer way to get off the roof that would've prevented your injuries?

I my relationship I will not obey anything that stands in the way of common sense. My Dom knows this about me and he understands it. I have a firm guide -- reality-based.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 2

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 6:56:02 PM

sweetnurseBBW

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From: North Carolina
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I obey but he never asks me to do anything that will harm me. Like jumping off a roof.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 6:56:43 PM

Kalira

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From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Wasn't there a calmer way to get off the roof that would've prevented your injuries?

I my relationship I will not obey anything that stands in the way of common sense. My Dom knows this about me and he understands it. I have a firm guide -- reality-based.

LOL possibly. But that is not the point. There actually does come a time in any relationship; whether it be vanilla, D/s, or M/s that something happens and you just react without thought. It has nothing to do with a lack of common sense and everything to do with just reaction

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 4

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 6:59:05 PM

LadyOunce

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I suppose this is why I'm the other side of things. I only trust one person enough to follow them blindly and that is me.

_____________________________

Above all, be true to yourself, and if you cannot put your heart in it, take yourself out of it. -Jackson

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts. -Einstein

Do not consider painful what is good for you. -Medea

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 5

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 7:11:32 PM

DiurnalVampire

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Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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You probably reacted to the tone of his voice before you really thought too much about the words or what the repercussions would be.

I was on the subway with a friend (vanilla, a clasmate in karate) travelling in NY. We were discussing alternate lifestyles, and how scary it must be to be involved with someone trained like we were to hurt people. He also said he didnt think he could ever posssibly obey someone without questioning their rasons for giving a command, and that he would make a lousy submiissive. When we got out of the station and were walking home, he was behind me on the escalator, when I told him to jump off. The side was oopen, and I had started backing toward him. He jumped over the side without asking any questions (no serious injury) and without looking up to see why. I had a gun in my face at the moment.
I wasnt hurt (cant say the sae for the would be atacker) however, had my friend ot jumped, he might have been. In my attempt to disarm the gunman, there were 2 shots fired over my shoulder and right where my friend had been.

Not sure if thats the same sort of story, but he obeyed without question, which is something I mentioned later while we were waiting fo the cops to release us. He said the tone of my voice didnt realy leave much room for argument.

Now, I dont think Angel would necesarily obey without question, unless something caused me to SOUND that way with him. One never knows, though.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 6

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 7:14:16 PM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

You probably reacted to the tone of his voice before you really thought too much about the words or what the repercussions would be.

I was on the subway with a friend (vanilla, a clasmate in karate) travelling in NY. We were discussing alternate lifestyles, and how scary it must be to be involved with someone trained like we were to hurt people. He also said he didnt think he could ever posssibly obey someone without questioning their rasons for giving a command, and that he would make a lousy submiissive. When we got out of the station and were walking home, he was behind me on the escalator, when I told him to jump off. The side was oopen, and I had started backing toward him. He jumped over the side without asking any questions (no serious injury) and without looking up to see why. I had a gun in my face at the moment.
I wasnt hurt (cant say the sae for the would be atacker) however, had my friend ot jumped, he might have been. In my attempt to disarm the gunman, there were 2 shots fired over my shoulder and right where my friend had been.

Not sure if thats the same sort of story, but he obeyed without question, which is something I mentioned later while we were waiting fo the cops to release us. He said the tone of my voice didnt realy leave much room for argument.

Now, I dont think Angel would necesarily obey without question, unless something caused me to SOUND that way with him. One never knows, though.

DV

I would be inclined to agree with you. There was probably a difference in the tone of voice, though at that time I could not tell you or not. All I know is he told me jump, I jumped

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 7

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 7:26:58 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Quite frankly, anything I would do, I'd do it without someone telling me to do so.

I'd leap in front of a bus, leap off a building, kill, maim, steal, and pretty much any horrific act you can think of to myself and others if say, I seriously thought it would save my nephew from somehow dying.

I don't need a master to tell me its ok or to make it into some romantic martyrdom.

I have limits because of what I know I need to be ME and stay true to myself- it has absolutely nothing to do with whatever romantic attachments I may have towards another.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 8

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 7:29:14 PM

RiotGirl

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Sure i'd jump off a cliff.. heck i've done it before! Course i'd expect water or something beneath me and i might look imploringly at him and see if he'd be willing to push me. LOL Gawd i hate heights!

I know my Dom well enough to know his tones as well and if he used "that" tone i would with out doubt know that it was serious.

I can see standing at a cliff (with water underneath it!) and hearing him say several different ways jump. Teasingly, jokingly, challengingly, and your life is in danger. Depending on the tone is depending on how you react, of course.

And i've done things where i thought he was out of his mind for. Piercing my clit, i thought he was absolutely fricken NUTS for. And obeying "on command" wasnt really involved in that either. Though he did tell me to "calm down" and "breathe" and "relax" and i did those the best to my ability.

If its not "that" tone, hell yes imma think about it. Im going to think about it, weigh it out, and decide if he's nuts first. Luckily, he uses his tones appropriately.

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 9

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 7:37:17 PM

Lashra

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Joined: 2/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyOunce

I suppose this is why I'm the other side of things. I only trust one person enough to follow them blindly and that is me.

My feeling exactly. To the OP, I've done alot of roofing and had I been your Master I would have told you to get on the ladder and get off the roof, not jump. That may not be your question but that does show why blind obedience is not necessarily a good thing. Common sense needs to come into play.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to LadyOunce)

Post #: 10

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 8:09:49 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
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oooooooooo

i always knew you folks were really good at changing around what some one was saying. She ment it as a postive thing, and here it is a negative thing now. Of course the thread wasnt even really How she got off, it was an example.. the thread was about "blind obedience". BUT of course, folks after to go after the personal experience and pick it apart.

Whew i can be bitchy when i want! <grins> i think i just got tired and i think its time to step AWAY from the computer!

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 11

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 8:11:30 PM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
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I don't follow blindly in most instances, but if something happened that seemed extreme, I'm sure that Daddy would make it understood that I needed to trust Him. He is also very judicious in His commands and doesn't waste His words. I trust Him, but I haven't stored my brain in a jar on a shelf in the science lab, so to speak.

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Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

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(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 12

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 8:18:26 PM

LadyOunce

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I admit, I'm missing the negative here, given some of the outright snarks and cruelty I've seen, and yes, done.

The OP asked if we would follow blindly and for some, like Lashra and ourselves, there is no way we would do this. Nor would I, for one and I shan't speak for others, ask any under me to do that when their safety is at stake.

Perhaps the point being made is that in saving her life, he risked it in other ways and is that a positive thing or not. It's no insult to her or her master but rather our take on the situation. It's what discussion is about - discussing - and everyone's views and opinions are based on their experience alone, not the next person's.

_____________________________

Above all, be true to yourself, and if you cannot put your heart in it, take yourself out of it. -Jackson

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts. -Einstein

Do not consider painful what is good for you. -Medea

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 13

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 8:29:49 PM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

Actually, I am not taking offense at any of the replies. The question actually came about because of all the threads we have seen concerning 'no limits' and how idiotic it is to 'blindly obey ' someone even when it 'appears' that they may be putting your own life at risk.

It was meant as a kind of 'tongue in cheek' kind of question that says: ok, for all you out there who actually do claim to blindly obey without a second thought or hestitation; let me hear why lol.

Most who lay claim to this kind of blind obeidience also state the same thing. That they would do something like this simply because they know, without a doubt, that it is a case of something extremely serious about to happen,so they 'obey' without question.

It has nothing to do with common sense at all. And everything to do with how well do you really trust the person you are with to protect you from serious harm or injury; even at the expense of causing some minor harm or injury. For myself, a shattered knee and dislocated shoulder were nothing compared to what would and could have happened. It was A small price to pay.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to LadyOunce)

Post #: 14

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 8:38:01 PM

KatyLied

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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

It has nothing to do with common sense at all. And everything to do with how well do you really trust the person you are with to protect you from serious harm or injury;

I've never put myself solely, to that degree, in the hands of another person. And it has nothing to do with how much I trust the other person. I have the final responsbility for myself. I have to because of my life responsibities (work, kids, etc).

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 15

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 8:40:12 PM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

I obey but he never asks me to do anything that will harm me. Like jumping off a roof.

I spent most of my childhood jumping off the roof at my parent's house.

I get yelled at by my bosses on the longshore job because I jump off rail cars.
I have stuff to do, climbing up and down ladders means it takes more time to do
things. Whats up with that?

I used to cliff jump at the summer camp I used to work at up to 50 feet.

Gravity, it isnt just a good idea, its the law.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

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RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 8:54:20 PM

Sinergy

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Hello A/all,

To bring the conversation back to the original posters question.

One of the classes we teach (full contact self defense) is called the Partner's Class. In this class, we deal with the dynamics of a partnership and how it relates to self defense.

For example, person A and person B (partners) are walking down the street and approached by creep A. There are all sorts of dynamics going on between person A and person B, and creep A is a threat to both of them.

Without going into it extensively, I wanted to point out that one thing we teach persons A and B to do is figure out beforehand who does what, because person A might be deemed the one who talks to creep A. There are all sorts of psychological things at work in the decision of who does what. Person B might wait for a code word (the one I use is showtime) which means person B cold-cocks creep A from left field because a fight is imminent.

So to bring it back to the OP, I can totally understand their point of view and why they would jump. They trusted in their partner to guage the risks and keep them safe, and when told to jump off the roof they understood that their partner would not tell them to do this unless their partner had weighed the risks involved. While we can monday morning quarterback the Dominant's decision, I, for one, am going to give him/her/it the benefit of the doubt and give him/her/it kudos for making the decision they made.

To summarize, I think the two of you are blessed to have each other, and I can totally understand the dynamic you two have.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 17

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 10:22:26 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Sinergy and I talked about this thread for a long while tonight. Sometimes CM brings up a fresh issue for us to ponder and consider. As time goes by and our relationship deepens I believe I would jump too. I know this man's body language when we are together, how protective he is of me. I cannot imagine him telling me to do something like that without a good reason. Also, I tend to think that our instinct takes over, and split second decisions come along that require action, that trust that develops becomes almost instinctual. I do not believe that he would tell me to do something like that without a life and death reason hanging in the balance.

I do not think this is a Ds thing though to be honest with you. If I was with a partner that I was involved with in a vanilla relationship I would jump if I trusted them. One can deeply trust in any human relationship, and yes, trust enough to jump off the roof because they are told to. It is a testament to the depth of the trust you had that you jumped.

The question that Sinergy and I pondered was this, if I told him in a tone that denoted that a life and death decision was imminent, would he have jumped? His answer was yes, because trust is not about his dominance and my submission, it is about believing that someone has your back no matter what, good judgment, and the desire to protect you no matter what.

[puts on flame retardant suit]

I think that when we state unequivocably that this is a "sub" trait and this is a "dom" trait that we lose some of what is means to be human, and that is the ability to do anything we can to save and protect the life of a loved one, and the power of love to spur us to make certain choices that transcend Ds. I think protecting the life of my Daddy and his willingness to follow an order from me like "jump" that is designed to literally save his life is an example of something that transcends power exchange. That is just my opinion.

Edited to add, wonderful story and thanks for sharing Kalira

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 11/3/2006 10:23:02 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 18

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 10:59:57 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I think protecting the life of my Daddy and his willingness to follow an order from me like "jump" that is designed to literally save his life is an example of something that transcends power exchange. That is just my opinion.

Edited to add, wonderful story and thanks for sharing Kalira

That's such a sub thing to say :)

But I agree- it's nothing to do with dom/sub or master/slave or obedience or authority. It's simple survival, trust and reaction- and it can occur in any relationship.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 19

RE: Would you REALLY do that...? - 11/3/2006 11:21:51 PM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
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quote:

Sinergy: I get yelled at by my bosses on the longshore job because I jump off rail cars.
I have stuff to do, climbing up and down ladders means it takes more time to do things. Whats up with that?

Sinergy, its called "risk management". You go what, about 210? And working on the docks I assume we aren't talking open-toed sandals (we could, and discuss "peep toe" heels, but that's a different thread). So you are wearing steel caps? Solid 8" workboots? And you are landing on soft, delicate...CONCRETE? Maybe, wood if its an old dock.

Do you realize the impact you are subjecting your foot bones and ankle bones to when you jump down the 5-12 feet off a rail car ? If I were your boss, I'd yell too. I don't need a man out with a hairline fracture, and the paperwork on the workers' comp claims is a bitch.

I know you are a martial arts guru, and as stealthy on your feet as a cat, but, man...one of these days you are gonna get a heel shock that is gonna put you on your ass for a few months.

Remember a fundamental rule of animal physics -- drop an organism off a 10 foot high ledge: Mice roll and scamper, cats land upright, men break a bone, and horses splash.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 20

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