RE: punish first, explain later (Full Version)

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defiantbadgirl -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 4:34:37 PM)

I definitely didn't think it was right in my situation. The whole thing started because I didn't know much about cams and I have a ruptured disk in my lower back (yes he knew that). which slowed down my performance speed. Basically when he said I needed punishment and refused to tell me why till after, I told him he was being unjust. I think I'm going to make punishment without prior explanation a hard limit from now on.......lol..



Hercuckslave -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 4:39:51 PM)

i think that to punish a slave without explaining why would be a waste of energy, and irresponsible as a domme.  now, this is different that say, just torturing a slave.  Mistress may take me and beat me simply because she wants to.  I understand this.  But I can't imagine her EVER telling me i am to be punished, and not explain what my misdeeds were.  With her, the explaination and correction is perhaps the most profound part.  When i learn where i have failed, accept my misdeeds, and await the punishment that is to follow.

M's m



defiantbadgirl -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 4:44:21 PM)

Exactly, it's the principle of the whole thing...........not that I could take many types of fun punishments with my back like this lol.



LTRsubNW -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 5:11:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Is it a common thing for a master to punish a sub and refuse to explain why until afterwords? It seems to me that without an explanation, a master could misunderstand a situation or action and the sub could end up being punished unjustly. Do es a sub have the right to an explanation before a punishment is carried out? Any thoughts on this?


I would imagine a Master (or a Domme) has a right to say "this is the way it is....I'll explain later"...and that's the way it is.



LadyHugs -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 5:19:13 PM)

Dear defiantbadgirl, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In my mind's eye, I cannot justify punishing a slave/submissive, without having explained to the point of no misunderstanding of what is said/done that warranted my administration of 'justice.'
 
What I do tend to see, is people who make up the rules after the fact punish someone, to which in my mind's eye is not fair, then dribble out some nonsense, such as you should have done this or that, like you're a sudden 'Sylvia Browne" or mind reader. 
 
A good dominant would have set the rules way before, use the smallest correction at the beginning of working with the rules and increase as appropriate.  If its pure defiance--instead of just not grasping the jest of things--out to the curb they go.
 
But, if I make a new rule in my head, never explaining the new rule, the why that rule came about--I refuse to punish a slave for a rule they have no knowledge of.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



sonny2000 -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 5:58:48 PM)

You have never meet a submissive who orgasms from a good flogging or whacking and sends you a nice thank you note for the marks?



DiurnalVampire -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 6:05:10 PM)

Punishment tends to be very ineffective if you dont know WHY you are being punished. If I cant explain to you what you did wrong, why it was wrong and why it merits the punishment it is getting, then I have an issue somewhere.  In order for me to enforce the proper behavior I have to make sure the improper one is dissuaded.

Just my take
DV



sonny2000 -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 6:15:23 PM)

I think the real issue is that if you have a ruptured disk in your lower back you might have stop all bdsm play untill your a whole lot better



DiurnalVampire -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 6:23:51 PM)

I dont agree, if the Dom knew there was an injury, pushing someone to perform something that would be problematic is a sign of irrisponsability.  Broken toys are of no use to anyone. I had a pet who broke his foot shortly before he and I were supossed to meet for the first time.  He let me know he was injured, and tat his ability to do exactly as I asked was going to be restricted.  I didnt punish him for not being able to walk ahead of me and open doors and pull out chairs.  I did alow him to pay for dinner, and instead of being the gentleman he assumed he should be, he was alowed to prove himself in a different way, by wearing a collar all night.
Making an unreasonable demand and then punishing for it doesnt do anything for their training, nor does it help their trust in you.

DV



Celeste43 -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 6:25:25 PM)

I don't know if it's common. I do know I would have neither respect nor trust for someone who would do this. He rarely punishes. These days I rarely even get lectured. But always what happens is that we talk first.

As far as being punished for something you aren't able to do, that's beneath contempt. Myself I happen to be technologically illiterate. He wanted me to chat with him and I didn't know how. He wound up sending explicit email directions plus multiple telephone conversations before I could figure out how to get the program installed. If he had announced that instead of teaching me, he would punish me then I would have decided not to talk to him again.

Punishment is something that shouldn't be taken lightly and until you are in a relationship with him and agree that he has the right to punish you, he doesn't. Some online HNG you've never met shouldn't have this right.



sonny2000 -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 6:29:11 PM)

That goes for both Dom and Sub
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

I dont agree, if the Dom knew there was an injury, pushing someone to perform something that would be problematic is a sign of irrisponsability.  Broken toys are of no use to anyone. I had a pet who broke his foot shortly before he and I were supossed to meet for the first time.  He let me know he was injured, and tat his ability to do exactly as I asked was going to be restricted.  I didnt punish him for not being able to walk ahead of me and open doors and pull out chairs.  I did alow him to pay for dinner, and instead of being the gentleman he assumed he should be, he was alowed to prove himself in a different way, by wearing a collar all night.
Making an unreasonable demand and then punishing for it doesnt do anything for their training, nor does it help their trust in you.

DV





sonny2000 -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 6:33:16 PM)

You talk, you use safewords, Stay away from anyone who says this is not fun and fantasy or calls themself a true Dominent
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

I don't know if it's common. I do know I would have neither respect nor trust for someone who would do this. He rarely punishes. These days I rarely even get lectured. But always what happens is that we talk first.

As far as being punished for something you aren't able to do, that's beneath contempt. Myself I happen to be technologically illiterate. He wanted me to chat with him and I didn't know how. He wound up sending explicit email directions plus multiple telephone conversations before I could figure out how to get the program installed. If he had announced that instead of teaching me, he would punish me then I would have decided not to talk to him again.

Punishment is something that shouldn't be taken lightly and until you are in a relationship with him and agree that he has the right to punish you, he doesn't. Some online HNG you've never met shouldn't have this right.




DiurnalVampire -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 6:44:50 PM)

The sub does their part by informing the dom of the problem.  They then trust that they will not be requested to do anything they cannot do, and if they are they wont be punished for their inability. IF you set your sub up for failure then thats exactly what youa re going to get.



Daddysredhead -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 7:16:08 PM)

Daddy always explains very clearly what I've done and why it needs to be corrected.  I have more respect for Him that way and I learn at the same time.



akisha -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 8:22:59 PM)

Punishment is always explained to me before carried out. LOL when i try and explain why i messed up I usually just get told there is no acceptable excuse. Being as i tend to screw up on small simple things *sighs* usually just because i was thinking of other things and not remembering what i was supposed to be doing [&o]  I cry in my defense that i'm scatter brained and blonde but that never works either lol [:D]

I think it's only proper that if you are going to be punsihed you should know what for. Other wise it's like beating the puppy for peeing on the floor the day after it happened. They have no idea why they are getting beat and just learn to fear and hate you.

What Top/Dom/Master wants their pet to fear and resent them? Just doesn't make sense.

You can't learn from something if you have no idea what you are being punished for. And in my opinion, if He or She is waiting untill later to explain what was done wrong it probably means they need to to come up with something plausible. But then again that's just my opinion.




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 8:54:08 PM)

Bah!...IMO..any Dominant that punishes without giving a reason...has no reason..he just wants to punish!...Tempting



Archer -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/4/2006 9:50:31 PM)

It generally becomes a non issue if you simply take the time to get to know the person before jumping into a play relationship with them.

I would never advise someone to get into a relationship without knowing the other person's philosophy of relationships, and in our cases that means also their philosophy on discipline, punishment.



RedSavageSlave -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/5/2006 7:55:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

her question actually stems from the thread she started on the other section
http://www.collarchat.com/m_665548/tm.htm


Thanks Kalira.. I dont generally read posts that head out as Cam Domination so I didnt read that one.

I have no response to the OP then other than the one I already gave in this situation then.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/5/2006 2:34:57 PM)

 The guy acted like a jerk and treated me like crap. I just wanted to know if punishing and refusing to give the reason first was common behavior among doms and have found from the input of most that it's not. Thanks everyone.



agirl -> RE: punish first, explain later (11/5/2006 2:44:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The guy acted like a jerk and treated me like crap. I just wanted to know if punishing and refusing to give the reason first was common behavior among doms and have found from the input of most that it's not. Thanks everyone.


What would you be thinking right now if it WAS common behaviour for *doms?



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