Unable to communicate (Full Version)

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wingedangel -> Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 12:13:06 PM)

Hi everyone.  I have been reading the forums for a little while now, but haven't seen a topic that quite fits my situation. 

Normally, I communicate well with just about anyone, in just about any situation.  I have noticed, however, a distinct inability on my part to be able to even talk to (muchless actually communicate with) the Doms/Masters/Sadists to whom I feel I can submit.

There have been very few Dominants who engender the submissive feelings in me, yet in every instance, my brain turns to mush and I start to second guess myself over every word I say.  At times, just a two sentence email to answer a question takes half an hour to compose, and sending a quick IM or email just to say "hi" feels like a momentous task.  Needless to say, the intelligent, fairly articulate woman who first conversed with them (before feeling like I could submit to them) disappears, replaced by a nearly silent, nervous, timid shell of my former self. 

It isn't that I don't have anything to say... on the contrary, there is often much I want to share and contribute, but there seems to be a short circuit between my mind and my voice.  I often write in my journal all the things I want to say, but cannot bring myself to share it with the Dom. 

This is much more than a simple fear of rejection issue.  I am able to communicate my emotions when the Doms ask specifically.  I don't hide what I am feeling.  I just can't initiate or sustain to an extent even normal, everyday conversations.

Have any of you Doms/Masters/Sadists ever come across a submissive like me?  Do any of you subs/slaves ever have the same sort of trouble?  Any suggestions on ways to overcome and deal with this?

Thank you in advance for all your thoughts and comments.

angel



Kalira -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 12:28:38 PM)

Hmm, I have much the same issue with 'sharing'. I found that the best way to open that door is with a journal and to let Master read it. I understand how hard it is to hand it over to him to read, but maybe if you just emailed it to him in a way that you could not bring it back or unsend...you might find that hitting the send button opens up a whole new world of communication.

Don't beat yourself up about this; there is nothing wrong with that feeling of self-preservation that comes from actually letting someone in. What's important is that you take it one step and at a time; you will find that with each step, the next one becomes easier and easier.

I wish you the best [:)]



slavejali -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 12:46:52 PM)

hi wingedangel,

Really liked this subject...and I don't think I've ever seen it before on the forums...

I've experienced that feeling. I do not know the absolute mathematics of "states" of "submission" but do know, that submission is a very real thing that has your mind going through all kinds of stages, including the one you mentioned.

I guess when you think about it, submission is a letting go, a surrendering and that can't just happen willy nilly unless you have a weak mind and no sense of self.  Lots of people can be "dominated' just through a failing of their character, you see it all around, at home, in the workplace, socially etc.

However being a slave or submissive in a D/s sense is different than that. Submission in our regard is not because of a weaknesss but because of a recognition that an energetic power related dynamic can exist between two people.  Submission in a D/s sense  takes an opposite force willing and "able" to "take" it, the dominant. I think this force is energetic and invisible, unseen, that its not dependent on "words" or even "actions"...its an undercurrent psychic connection or something.

Anyways saying all that, when these two opposite forces come together, its like they slide into each other, the fit creating an intense dynamic that really has each of the people interacting accutely aware of the stages and processes of their role within the relationship.

I think the inability to communicate is a natural stage or state of submission, perhaps a really deep stage/state. When I feel it, its like I'm totally surrendered that I can't even find any thoughts of my own, its like I'm in a void place where nothing else exists..I need input from my dominating force, my partner. Those times can last from "moments" to a lot longer than that ......[:)]




wingedangel -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 12:47:41 PM)

Thank you, Kalira.  You are right about the journal being the way to go when things get to that point.

I wish I could silence the words in my head that question if the Doms really want to know what I have to say or if saying hello would be an imposition.  Calling them, even though given permission to do so at any time, is completely out.  My hands start trembling at the mere thought.  I am wondering, in a way, if this isn't some form of anxiety issue, but I don't have these problems in other areas, or even when talking to other Doms... as long as I don't start having feelings for them.



wingedangel -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 12:53:48 PM)

slavejali, thank you for your comments. 

Yes, it is a completely different feeling when finding those precious souls who make me just melt.  It is a very rare thing, indeed, and I don't want to continue to let this problem complicate or distroy the relationships with those individuals.  It has happened in the past, that my lack of communication with them led them to believe I wasn't interested or invested in the relationship.

Perhaps I need to be upfront with Doms in the future that this is a problem for me.



slavejali -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 12:55:57 PM)

Or just find the right dominant who can appreciate it [;)] Maybe its *not* a problem....



Kalira -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 12:55:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wingedangel

slavejali, thank you for your comments. 

Yes, it is a completely different feeling when finding those precious souls who make me just melt.  It is a very rare thing, indeed, and I don't want to continue to let this problem complicate or distroy the relationships with those individuals.  It has happened in the past, that my lack of communication with them led them to believe I wasn't interested or invested in the relationship.

Perhaps I need to be upfront with Doms in the future that this is a problem for me.

Honesty such as that often will lead to understanding for those who are truly interested in YOU.



kittensangel -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 1:11:07 PM)

i understand what you are feeling, however for me i have trouble putting thought onto paper so that a master coud understand what it going through my head. So in the past i have set up "Journal time" where i am allowed to speak freely about what i am feelling and how things are going. During this time i can not be punished for sayign something he does not like, but i have to do it in a respectful mannor, and as such its a privlage. The dom was with came to understand my trouble wiht words and paper so this was a good compermise. It works for me and because i know i can nto be punished for my thoughts and how i am feeling then i am better able to open up.




Noah -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 1:29:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wingedangel
...
It isn't that I don't have anything to say... on the contrary, there is often much I want to share and contribute, but there seems to be a short circuit between my mind and my voice.  I often write in my journal all the things I want to say, but cannot bring myself to share it with the Dom. 

This is much more than a simple fear of rejection issue.  I am able to communicate my emotions when the Doms ask specifically.  I don't hide what I am feeling.  I just can't initiate or sustain to an extent even normal, everyday conversations.

...


The picture seems to waver here. At one point the problem seems seem to be described as just a sort of elaborate version of tongue-tiedness. But the resolution to that is presented in terms of your journal entries.

One way to carry on a conversation is via mail. Another way is e-mail. The option exists for you to snip the appropriate texts from your journal and add them to an electronic or paper letter. If the problem this thread is about really hasn't to do with fear of rejection or something similar then why not proceed this way? A well-measured conversational pace can be established which will naturally filter in favor of potential partners who are comfortable with this under the circumstances.

Since the texts already exist, no degree of tongue bondage can interfere.

Too precipitous? Consider posting carefully selected journal entires to a blog, maybe one viewable by invitation only. If it is too much strain to say, in effect: "here are some thoughts I want to share with you" maybe it would be possible with one of these doms to say "here are some thoughts I have had which might be of interest to you." You could solicit or not solicit feedback as you saw fit at the time. And of the course the feedback might come or not come irrespective of the solicitation.

Once some of these deeply felt ideas of yours are shared and hopefully accepted with interest and grace by your correspondent, it might be the case that some directed evolution can happen, if you will.

If a small space of trust is opened up in this way maybe you could eventually as a small token accept his instruction to--using as much time as it takes--be one little bit bolder in a real-time conversation, just once, and then rest, as it were.

He could respond. You could in your way and time process the transaction and look to see from that new vantage what you might be inspired to do or say next, if anything. 

A little bit like that operant conditioning they do to help someone over a phobia. A lot like two mutually interested people acknowledging one another's immediate limitations as well as their interest.

Let's admit that there is something romantic about this verbal swooning of yours, in a strict sense of the word, anyway. That is to say that it might not look out of place in a certain kind of romantic literature (whether high brow or low brow.) It can be seen as of a piece with some time-honored feminine gambits employed in the game of love. To call it a gambit is to cast it in a certain light but it needn't be seen as minipulative or anything of the kind. Let's just say that those women who learned to behave comparably in a manipulative or self-defeating way may have been aping something quite authentically done by a less manipulative, less pathologically conflicted person who happened to be possessed of a very certain kind of shyness, a kind of shyness with which you are familiar..

Some part of you may have an affinity for this sort of thing, may have identified with fluttering-lashed damsels in literature. I'm not poking fun and I'm by no means suggesting you simply "get over it." This seems authentic to you. Inhabit it. Be who you are. But a human being is a large being.  Part of who you are may very well be someone who can in her own way transcend the difficulties presented by this situation if only you don't allow yourself to be defined by it.

It may even be one aspect among many which a potential partner will find charming or anyway worth the trouble.

Good luck.



Focus50 -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 1:52:15 PM)

An interesting piece of insight as I've had a couple of..., well..., let's be honest, totally exasperating conversations with fem/subs who have contacted me over the years.  It'd go something along the lines of her writing a simple one line intro and I'd reply with at least a paragraph or two to help "loosen the shackles" and generally kick things along.
 
But I'd still only get the sparsest replies back!  Now I do understand some fem/subs, esp newbies, find it difficult to talk with strangers or Doms or about the submissive urges that brought them to these sites etc, but what am I to do?  My usual emails tend to be longish and detailed and still I'd get vague one line replies - this from someone who originally contacted me *first*.
 
I'm actually in the process of rewriting my profile and one point relates expressly to this topic.  It's a little out of context here but the last line of the relevant passage currently states: "So you can be quiet and shy and maybe even believe you're not much of a conversationalist etc, but at least *try* and talk with me, too!"  While I have said I've only had very few contact me who are seemingly unable to converse at all, there are a greater percentage who seem to think or expect me to read their minds and always say exactly the right thing and it just ain't gonna happen! 
 
I don't have any suggestions on offer for "tongue-tied" fem/subs beyond stating the obvious that it takes TWO to have a conversation.  I've got two or three patient emails in me but I am not gonna be left banging my head against a wall in exasperation or of virtually talking to myself.  You don't have to be brilliant and articulate etc, but do make an effort.  I don't always expect my sub to achieve some of the tasks I set her - indeed, some are impossible and weren't assigned for a final outcome; they're designed to gauge her willingness and determination to try her best for me.  With a stranger, I still wanna see that in an email, esp if she's made first contact.
 
Focus.



Focus50 -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 2:03:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wingedangel

Perhaps I need to be upfront with Doms in the future that this is a problem for me.

Yes, definitely do that - I know I would've appreciated knowing upfront instead of having to guess.  Esp as there are female timewasters out there, too! 
 
But temper that by being selective with who you write to....  Not all doms will understand your being shy etc and you clearly need that atmosphere to thrive.  And be realistic and expect some to just be arseholes if you get stuck again.
 
Focus.



mnottertail -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 2:08:43 PM)

When there is a jumble, and you peer into the gaping maw that is your soul, it is not so uncommon to be beyond words.......


You will do well, tell them and time will turn in your favor.  Talking hasn't changed....


Ron



medicalsub -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/4/2006 5:08:47 PM)

As I understand the original post, wingedangel is saying she has difficulty communicating after establishing a relationship. 

I, too, have felt this way.  I can express myself clearly when exchanging initial emails and phone calls, even in initial meetings.  It seems to change when I begin to feel a devotion for the dominant, when I feel the potential to truly yield to him.  Like wingedangel, I don't find many that I want to submit to, so it is doubly frustrating to suddenly feel unable to effortlessly talk to those who I do connect with in that way.

Unfortunately, wingedangel, I don't have any advice to offer you, but know you are not alone. 




Celeste43 -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/6/2006 8:11:20 AM)

It's much less so now than in the beginning. At that point I could barely lift my head to look into his eyes. It didn't bother him at all, in fact I'm sure he greatly enjoyed knowing the effect he had on me. For things that needed talking about but I couldn't face to face, I wrote emails. Later on if there was something he wanted me to talk to him about, he would pull me on to his lap and I would talk into his chest.

Email, snail mail, phone, chat. In many ways just not having to see his expression was enough if what was going on was fear of his reaction or him rejecting me.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/6/2006 8:32:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50: "So you can be quiet and shy and maybe even believe you're not much of a conversationalist etc, but at least *try* and talk with me, too!"  Focus.
 
 



*grin*...yeah that should work but if not you could always send them a multiple choice questionare and a number two pencil...



gemy -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/6/2006 8:45:04 AM)

i love this thread!  i noticed it happens to me also, but i just thought i was losing interesting or He was losing interest or Wwe had simply run out of things to talk about or or or ~~  until now that it's brought up here and it turns out i am not alone nor crazy *smiles

and since i have recently started to speak with a Dom i am attracted to in more ways then simply physical, and find myself getting shorter and shorter in the discussions, i think i may suggest to Him to read this thread ~~ and let Him know i am beginning to get that way with Him ,,,,,,,



CrazyC -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/6/2006 8:53:29 AM)

Oh i am having that problem too. i end up sending them my phone number and hope they call me, because it just isn't going to happen. In fact, even after i have talked to them on the phone i still have a hard time doing it again. One Dom told me, he just couldn't figure me out. i know it is because i haven't told him everything i feel, but yea...need to work on that one too.

Focus...subs aren't the only one. lol i don't know how many Doms i get..."Hi your beautiful." Then i go to their profile, and there is nothing there. So i say thank you. When they respond back it is always just one line, or they never do. i always wonder how they were thinking i would be able to communicate with them.



Emperor1956 -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/6/2006 8:56:06 AM)

quote:

OP:  Have any of you Doms/Masters/Sadists ever come across a submissive like me? 


In short, yes.  I am a very verbal person, and tend to gravitate to verbal, witty, conversational women.  So it has been a learning process for Me that my girl, who is all those things, can "get quiet" as our relationship deepens.  I've had to learn (and it is pleasant duty, I assure you) that sitting quietly with her head pressed against my calf, Me stroking her hair, is as much "communication" as long discussions of who and what We are.  Do not modify your styles, ladies.  Seek partners who understand you, or, if you have a partner who merits the investment, teach Him or Her your style.

E.



MasterKalif -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/7/2006 1:33:58 AM)

interesting, Ive never thought of this....maybe that is why I would get short replies from sub women who would contact me initially? who knows....all I can say is, if you have issues expressing yourself directly or even indirectly after getting past the "getting to know you stage" simply tell the potential Dom that you have this problem, so they can expect it, and know that it wasn't because you lost interest....many will understand, I am sure.



Focus50 -> RE: Unable to communicate (11/7/2006 1:58:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50: "So you can be quiet and shy and maybe even believe you're not much of a conversationalist etc, but at least *try* and talk with me, too!"  Focus.
 

*grin*...yeah that should work but if not you could always send them a multiple choice questionare and a number two pencil...

Errr, NO, that's *my* line in the sand.  If she can't meet me at that point, I'm outa there....
 
Focus. 



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