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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/5/2006 5:36:01 PM

slavejali

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quote:

to turn it further on it's head, I often feel that I am submitting to my role as a dominant in an interaction
,

So true

I liked that addition....I'm just so fascinated by all this stuff. Like we are blood and bone and guts and whatever...but the real stuff isnt all that...its the dynamics we play out...the undercurrents etc...that give deeper meaning to existance for me.

Sometimes I get too "mystical" however. Like I disregard my physical presence so easily....I think that is one of the things that attracts me to a D/s M/s relationship... I get to the best of both worlds...I get to explore the inner things...and get pulled back to earth by the physical when my feet arent touching the ground. Or Vice versa.....sometimes the physical makes me fly

rambling rambling rambling...

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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/5/2006 5:44:11 PM

slavejali

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quote:

Yes.

Though considering how many people think "switches" are already just confused or afraid...you're not likely going to get many to agree or understand how it's possible.

Hehe..you made me start thinking about the dynamics of switches... I guess they could fall into 2 categories too.

1. Totally messed up, not knowing whether they are here or there, arthur or martha.

2. Totally free and able to channel the yin and yang of existance through themselves at any given time, kinda like switching channels on a tv.

3. Just someone who wants to play around with roleplay and not interested in any deeper connections...

hrmm..ok that was 3 categories...

Edited
You know something, I dislike I said number 2 cause its inferring that anyone who can't switch is not whole...grrr...then my next thought was, well I *could* switch, I take control of things all the time....yet when it comes to intimate relationships...even thinking about switching brings this amazing sadness to my heart...which brings me back to "I am gonna hav to ponder this more".hehe

< Message edited by slavejali -- 11/5/2006 5:48:15 PM >

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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/5/2006 5:44:53 PM

darksdesire

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daddysprop stated it so eloquently. Some submissives, those of the first kind (of which i count myself) have a very natural and submissive nature that leaves them very vulnerable to exploitation and abuse. i also allowed the opinion of the masses to lessen my sense of value, and worked hard to "overcome" my submissiveness, or at the very least to fake it, to pretend that i was other than who and what i was.

My Master, by accepting and valuing that vulnerability and those broken places, has offered me a place where i can feel proud of the very thing that seemed so shameful just a few years ago. There is a place for the first type of slave thank goodness. i only wish daddysprop, that i'd been your age when i found someone to value what i couldn't.

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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/5/2006 5:55:59 PM

slavejali

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dark desire: but how often have you heard, someone starts out submissive, then heals and "outgrows" a D/s relationship. Ive heard it said on quite a few occassions. I guess my point being...when someone is traumatised for whatever reason, they are not in the state of mind to be able to state" this is my true calling, the true me" cuz they are basically only seeing themselves through the mirror of their pasts and their trauma.

Lots of this abuse starts in childhood.... the person hasn't attracted it because they are submissive...its happened them due to the circumstances of their life....and these circumstances are going to have a great impact on their future choices as adults.

That being said, its great there are dominants out there ( cool ones) who are willing to take these types of personalities on..thats great...I'm not saying this isnt so.

It's also great that submissives with problems can take safe haven with an understanding dominant and heal and grow.

None of that is what this topic is about.

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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/5/2006 6:34:44 PM

darksdesire

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slavejali

Thanks for your response. That is a good point - that many might heal and outgrow a D/s relationship. You also make a valid point when you wonder if someone who has been traumatized is in the state of mind to even be able to make such a decision as "this is my true calling." If you are thinking that someone is drawn to D/s because of trauma, that point makes sense, but if you look at the inverse; that those who are naturally submissive have often been traumatized because of their submissiveness, then it may indeed be a true calling that is recognized once presented.

Either way, i dont know. i'd done tons of work on past trauma (lots of therapy and reading, and blah blah blah) and had made tremendous growth.. So i came into my D/s relationship already whole on many, (although certainly not all) levels, and was able to make a choice that this was indeed my true calling.

edited because i had to go back and look at what the topic was initially about. My apologies for straying.

< Message edited by darksdesire -- 11/5/2006 6:37:19 PM >

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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/5/2006 6:47:09 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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LOL I've been doing some deep thinking about my switchiness as well. I was visiting a friend today who is in a 24/7 D/s dynamic as the sub, and theirs is a comfortable, yet slightly high protocol situation.

I realized that while it can be very nice to have that comfort of submission- it's just not who I am anymore. I AM a switch, and both flow within me continuously.

Or, as I said to my partner "Whatever you're doing, just keep doing it."

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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/5/2006 9:33:55 PM

ChaOz

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I dont think you can catagorise people so easily. The first slave, someone who is dominated by anyone could be brought into their own by a Master, get counciling for whatever problems they had in the past and learn to be a stronger person. The other.. well, who cares. Some people have a need to be slaves, others want it for other reasons but essentially slaves master themselves. A Dom just guides them in controlling their minds and bodies over time so they can fully let go and emerce themselves in the relationship. If it works.. it dont matter the persons past, just the connection that is created.

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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/7/2006 4:36:08 AM

Zensee

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A very good topic, thank you slavejali.

I think the categories in your first post were a good jumping off point. Of course generalisations often make a bit of a mess.

Not sure how they relate to the question of can a slave be a Master, although the matter of emotional imbalance in both Dominants and submissives is an important one. You could probably apply those two categories to Dominants as well. Domination can appeal to certain weakness of character as well.

It takes more courage to submit than to dominate. For one thing Dominants are taking less of a risk. Sure we might feel bad about screwing up or get some bad press but we don’t have to live in our mistakes. Which makes me wonder – is there an aspect of domination that comes from not being able to trust? A fear of submission rather than joy of dominating? Would this be predictive of whether one might change polarity?

The point has been raised about duty and service. The Monarch may appear to have all power and privilege but they are ultimately the servant of their realm and subjects. If you haven’t seen Helen Mirren in Elizabeth I, there is a study of just this paradox.

There is someone on each end of the chain.

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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/7/2006 8:43:28 PM

charismagirrl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

1. One shows itself through a weakness of character, basically because of some trauma within themselves, or some failing within themselves that just allows them to be dominated by any breeze that comes their way. Could be from past abuse, or lack of self worth, or a multitude of others reasons....these types of slaves would feel passionate about their submission because with so little sense of self they are actually like leaches needing to suck the blood outa a dominant type to sustain life and give them a sense of identity.

2. The other shows itself through strength of character and through knowledge of them selves. They willingly open themselves to the possibility of a D/s M/s dynamic through recognising that a very powerful dynamic within relationship can be had when two opposite forces exchange. This kinda slave(submissive) never really sees themselves as somehow "less" than the dominant partner....but a complimentary unit for the relationship dynamic. The types of slaves/submissives are passionate about the slavery/submission because its an expression of them self.

I think type 1 slave/submissive can never really be slave(submissive) to anyone, cuz they are already a slave to their misconceptions and their history and to their weak or injured mind. No matter how it appears to be....

I think type 2 slave/submissive can truely come into contact with what it is to be slave(submissive) and so actually be one for a partner. I think, this type of slave/submissive can be this cause in some regards they have mastered them "self"...come home to them "self"...and so are in fact...a "Master" them "self". ...and its this self that can submit.....hehe

What are your thoughts on this? (I think the blood is rushing to my head).

Addition: By the way, I guess in the above context a Master could be a slave too hey

Btw, Anyone can reply....and when I say Master I'm meaning any dominant type, Mistresses too...this is not gender specific...

In the way that you're using master (little *m*) then i agree. We as "s" types can also" master" or hone our skills and abilities as "s"s.

That being said, i think the idea of just 2 types of "s" is much too limiting and also kind of closed minded (or just not entirely thought out maybe) Do those types exist? Absolutely but, i can identify with both, but not completely with either (which says there is another type and probably more)

i am a slave that comes from heavy trauma and abuse in my past for as long as i can even recall. i also have some pretty deep seeded esteem issues due to alot of what my life has thrown at me or that i have allowed (in later yrs) to be thrown at me. Due to all of these things that have happened and the mere fact that i'm still here and able to talk about it speaks volumes about strength and survival skills and NOT weakness.

The fact that my Daddy/Master has been able to work wonders with/in me to gain my trust and to help heal me speaks volumes about his strength, character and ability as a man and a Master.

So another type would be someone like me. Some one who has lived through soo much pain and trauma and who has built up so much armour around themselves to keep safe but who deep down has always had a need to please and serve. i do not willingly open myself but i do willingly give up the right to remain closed behind my self imposed walls.

i do feel that my Daddy/Master is more than myself (but i also see that he needs me as well) He is more than me because he has more wisdom, strength and has walked through so much and come out on the other end of things a much more enlightened and able human being than i am. No matter how much he brings me through and past he will still remain many steps ahead of me, in knowledge and experience. Personally i can't imagine wanting to serve someone i didn't find better than myself in many ways, someone without any thing to teach me, someone without life experience far surpassing me own. This isn't putting myself down, it is realistically putting him at a higher rung on the ladder of life than i have yet to scale.

Just some thoughts to consider. How many other types could be out there?

Edited for some really bad typos

< Message edited by charismagirrl -- 11/7/2006 8:47:58 PM >

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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/7/2006 10:01:58 PM

ChaOz

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What type of master would you be? Anyone can role play it and anyone can tie down a girl. How far would you go in it? A slave gives as much as she is prepared to, and the deeper the need then greater the possibilties allowed. Same with a Master.

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RE: Master of "being" slave/submissive... - 11/7/2006 11:06:28 PM

beltainefaerie

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What an interesting discussion. I do think that generally (though there are always exceptions, aren't there), Doms are seeking the type 2. If you are just a weak puddle, where is the fun in controlling/dominating you? I think that submissives should be strong human beings who can stand on our own and choose to become vulnerable and surrender to a trustworthy dominiant. At least, that is what makes sense to me. I want to be in control of my emotions, my attitude and my reactions. Being in control of these things makes me a better servant. If I was not a master of these things within myself, I would break down when a task was difficult or when I was having a crappy day and it would be more difficult to submit. If I can master my own mood and set aside my feelings to submit to my Master's will, I become a more valuable, useful and better submissive. Just my 2 cents.

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