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RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 1:27:53 PM

LaTigresse

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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There are also plenty of female submissives/slaves that have used this same approach. I have no clue what their thoughts are but I know I am not going to try and prove how dominant I am by trying to somehow tame a sassy brat. They either want to belong to me, submit to me or they don't.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to jdtallfem)

Post #: 21

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 1:34:12 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Basically the dude is clearly advertising that he's a rotten submissive, high maintenance at best and a really annoying asshole at worst. There's a difference between not being a doormat or an insta-sub to everything that walks by with tits and a whip, and being a bad sub who can't behave decently on his own accord if he isn't being constantly slapped down. The former is worthy of respect. The latter is just a waste of everybody's time including his own.

Yes, but was Tarzan ever really meant to be tamed by civilization?

Anyway, Najak, if you HAD TO CHOOSE, which would it be:

a. high maintenance

b. annoying asshole

c. doormat

d. insta-sub

(in reply to Najakcharmer)

Post #: 22

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 1:35:16 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I am with LT and the others of this thread who disdain this type of thing, this is all too easy a situation that will lead to an escalation of control in a way that is destructive, I assume if there is acting out, there is some wrong that needs fixing, and if I would find that wrong in the slave........

What is the logic? You have to prove you can control me?

Easy says I, if thats the game, why don't we play it by my rules, which says...you have to prove you can live through what will definately control you which I will do without thought or rancor or worldy care.

You are in, or you are out.........
A kink like that interests me not in the least, I don't need the fuckin' practice, either.......that's how I feel about it.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 23

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 1:36:44 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Basically the dude is clearly advertising that he's a rotten submissive, high maintenance at best and a really annoying asshole at worst. There's a difference between not being a doormat or an insta-sub to everything that walks by with tits and a whip, and being a bad sub who can't behave decently on his own accord if he isn't being constantly slapped down. The former is worthy of respect. The latter is just a waste of everybody's time including his own.

Yes, but was Tarzan ever really meant to be tamed by civilization?

Anyway, Najak, if you HAD TO CHOOSE, which would it be:

a. high maintenance

b. annoying asshole

c. doormat

d. insta-sub

You left one out.......

e. none of the above

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 24

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 1:36:46 PM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

Tigresse - I believe you, I just never see those profiles LOL

Cloudboy - I don't know about her, but I choose e - none of the above. I'd rather be without a submissive.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 25

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 1:38:32 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

Tigresse - I believe you, I just never see those profiles LOL

Cloudboy - I don't know about her, but I choose e - none of the above. I'd rather be without a submissive.

Great minds think alike!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 26

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 3:01:59 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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You guys are dodging the question, much like how Captain Kirk dodged the no-win scenario.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 27

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 3:12:54 PM

Morrigel

Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

if you HAD TO CHOOSE, which would it be:

a. high maintenance

b. annoying asshole

c. doormat

d. insta-sub

Given that according to your scenario I am being forced, at gunpoint, to choose one of these four because I am not allowed to live WITHOUT a sub (or without a man at all, say in a nice cozy little cave in Tibet), I will happily choose C) doormat or D) insta-sub.

A doormat will at least do as I ask and try to solve problems rather than create them. An Insta-sub will sub to anyone, perhaps, but at least he will not exhaust me or deliberately be an annoying asshole whenever he's around. Either one of these is infinitely preferable to a man who makes my life hell in any way whatsoever, or whose company is actively unpleasant.

--M

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 28

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 3:13:43 PM

SweetDommes

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Joined: 10/5/2004
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not dodging it - being honest. I would rather have no submissive than any of the given choices. Of course, there is also the fact that 2 of your choices are the same thing (c. and d.). If I absolutely had to choose, I'd probably pick b. and then bury him in the back yard.

However, I would have to point out that your little poll has little to nothing to do with the topic at hand. I wanted thoughts and opinions on those submissives who come out of the gate with a challenge to all Dominants who read their profile. I'm getting them ... you don't seem to like those opinions - and that's your problem, not ours. You have derailed the topic with your little poll ... and don't like the responses that you are getting there either - again, that's your problem, not ours.

< Message edited by SweetDommes -- 11/6/2006 3:16:30 PM >

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 29

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 3:17:30 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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I also was being honest. I would prefer no sub to the choices given.

If I had no choice but to choose, I would choose the doormat. I do not need more stress and headaches.

I want someone to enhance my life not complicate it more.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 30

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 3:48:37 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

You guys are dodging the question, much like how Captain Kirk dodged the no-win scenario.

It isn't a dodge, it is refusing to chose from a limited selection because this is, above all else, a choice.

I can chose not to have a submissive partner or a slave. Hell, I lived at least 21 years of my life without that conscious choice so it can be done. I won't die without a partner.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 31

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 7:34:15 PM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

I'm not one for taming someone.I like to be in control.
I dont mind teaching a new person,but I dont force them to do anything they dont
really want.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 32

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 8:26:43 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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The criteria and "data" were pulled from Najak's post.

If someone asked me, would you rather die from drowning or be thrown from a tall building --- I don't answer that question by saying, "I would prefer to live." That is dodging the question. Morrigel, to her credit, ponied up. (She spotted the gun in my pocket.....)

Najak would have answered by now, but she's too busy taming an unruly sub who questioned her "inner dominance." Reports aren't back on whether or not she's enjoying the task. Ironically, I suspect she'll find out (in the end) that "physical force" does unleash a sub's inner submission, but that's just my own behind the veil, sometimes warped, speculation.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 11/6/2006 8:29:12 PM >

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 33

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/6/2006 8:36:05 PM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

If someone asked me to choose between methods of dying, I would answer "I'd rather die of old age, thanks" only because death is not something that you can avoid forever ... but that isn't what you asked so it doesn't really matter. You asked about a choice between different types of submissives, and there IS always another option in the question you asked - none of the above appeal, so I choose to do without. I believe you will also find that I answered your incredibly limited question, despite the fact that it is so limited.

I understand that you pulled the question from a post in the thread, but I repeat - that is not what this thread was started out to be, and if you are quite done derailing the topic, I'd like to get back to it.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 34

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/7/2006 11:21:27 AM

Najakcharmer

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Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: damia
i love animal roleplay. i am a human Kat, and will take every chance i can get to be myself in this way. i feel very much connected with leopards, and consider myself to be such a wild Kat. Here are my reasons: 1) i love to be given the freedom to struggle against restraints and be wrestled to the ground and held down to be forced into restraints. It really puts me into my Kat mindset, and allows me to be the wild thing i really am; 2) i love to rebel, to get the punishment, and i want to be 'broken' to be gentle and loyal to the person who trains and tames me, but remain rebelliously wild with others; 3) as a wild Kat, i get to bite and scratch (as long as the other consents, of course), and while i get punished for doing such, it lets me do something i can't help but love (especially biting the skin right between the neck and shoulder...*purr*). Sure, i could get some of this and not be 'wild' and 'untamed' but it is the combination of it all that really gets my blood pumping. i am really turned on by someone who wants to break me, to turn me into the gentle kitty for them and them alone, but will allow me to be who i really am, a wild Kat who wants to be forced into submission (forced being what people see, though it is consensual). i hope this all makes sense, and i know that i am not exactly what You were talking about, and not all are like me.

I can certainly understand and identify with that, since I am very much the feral feline also. For me, my feral animal side fuels a powerful need to be, as Jack London puts it, "the dominant primordial Beast". I also like to bite.

Though I reserve this type of feral play for very intimate partners; for the most part I do the standard tie'em up and beat'em when it's casual party play. The beast is still there behind my eyes because it's always there, but it doesn't often get to participate.

In feral animal mode, I tend to respond with real savagery to someone whom I think of as submissive to me who challenged me or showed fight, and it would have a very good chance of going well beyond the boundaries of safe, sane and consensual if that particular button got pushed while I was deeply in "feral animal" mindset. So that's something I try to avoid, since the government gets quite annoyed if you eviscerate and gnaw on its taxpayers. The big cat in my head is not a Disney cartoon; as far as I can tell it's just an animal, and there's not a damn thing that is either cute or romantically idealized about the stuff it wants to do. I don't have to do any of the things that my human brain knows are not a good idea, but the urges do exist and they can be very disturbing. So I try to avoid situations that can trigger the really antisocial and counterproductive ones.

In "human intellectual" mindset, it can be occasionally fun to do a resistance scene that is clearly negotiated in advance. But too much resistance is likely to throw my switch one way or another, either towards "This person does not consent and does not want to play with me, this is not fun any more, scene over" or the savage carnivore that lives in my hindbrain waking up and deciding that this is a serious real life survival situation. Neither is a good outcome, so the negotiation for a resistance scene does have to be a careful one. YMMV.

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 11/7/2006 11:23:14 AM >

(in reply to damia)

Post #: 35

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/7/2006 11:33:40 AM

Najakcharmer

Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Yes, but was Tarzan ever really meant to be tamed by civilization?

I have no problem with someone who refuses to be a doormat or an insta-sub, but is very much his own person, strong and independent, intelligent and competent. But because he is oriented to enjoy consensual D/s, he chooses to be submissive to a partner whom he cares about and respects. Because he isn't an asshole, he also chooses to be a good submissive to the best of his ability. In turn, his partner respects and cherishes him and encourages him to be the very best person he can be, taking pride not only in his strength and his accomplishments in life, but in the quality of his submission to his chosen partner. He is not "tamed" but mature enough to own up to his own desires and self disciplined enough to work at being a good quality submissive.

quote:

Anyway, Najak, if you HAD TO CHOOSE, which would it be:

Doormat, please. I can still enjoy the company of someone who obeys me implicitly and is perhaps overly needy of being controlled. Given time, I may be able to help him improve his confidence and self esteem to the point that he is able to make some decisions of his own with confidence.

I can't do jack shit with the other three, because the demanding high maintenance "sub" and the annoying asshole are primarily focused on their own needs to the point of not being willing to pay attention to mine, and the insta-sub is pretty much in the same boat since he thinks with his dick and is looking strictly for shallow encounters with anyone that has tits and a whip. I cannot work with this material. I can work with the doormat; there can be real potential there, and he will most likely be open to my helping him learn and grow into a stronger and more confident human being.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 36

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/7/2006 11:48:11 AM

Najakcharmer

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Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Ironically, I suspect she'll find out (in the end) that "physical force" does unleash a sub's inner submission, but that's just my own behind the veil, sometimes warped, speculation.

Yes, it can. At times I use a few tricks gleaned from a combination of stuntfighting maneuvers, martial arts and large animal training to create the subtle illusion that I have much greater physical strength than a submissive, and it does have an excellent effect on their subspace whether they consciously realize that's what I'm doing or not. Obviously these tricks fall down and don't work if a large animal (including the average male subbie) challenges them head on. But they do work even on big powerful animals when properly applied.

But "physical force" may be a misnomer, because if you go into the ring with, for instance, a lion, and you beat the crap out of it with a club, you may succeed in cowing it sufficiently to elicit submissive behaviors - for awhile. But nobody gets away with this for very long, and the eventual consequences are ugly. If you establish your physical dominance through rough and tumble social exchanges where you use intelligent leverage, well chosen tools, social displays, sensitive pressure points and other little tricks to create the consistent illusion that you are stronger than the lion, the lion will continue to see you as a pride alpha even though it weighs 400 lbs and can flatten you with an accidental paw-tap. You can't ever let that paw-tap land, by the way - if you ever do, you have a very big job of behavioral conditioning to do before he will see you as an alpha again.

Is this using physical force to elicit instinctive submission? Yes it is, and it does work, but it's very much a precise art and science. Wading in with brute force doesn't work and does tend to backfire badly.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 37

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/7/2006 12:24:33 PM

DiannaVesta

Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
Status: offline

hmmmm this thread is turning me on. I love this aspect of role-play and rarely find others who can sucessfully induldge.

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(in reply to Najakcharmer)

Post #: 38

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/7/2006 2:41:30 PM

Najakcharmer

Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

hmmmm this thread is turning me on. I love this aspect of role-play and rarely find others who can sucessfully induldge.

For some folks it's roleplay, and that can be a fun experience. For me personally, it's not roleplaying so much as dropping a carefully constructed facade. It's more like the cessation of roleplaying, since "adult professional who thinks and reacts appropriately like a normal human being" *is* the role that I'm playing. It's an exhausting role to play in public and I need a lot of quiet private time to compensate, or else I tend to slip out of role and instinctive feral reactions may slip through the "normal human" facade.

If I could decide what kind of animal I was and what the animal wanted to do, then it would be roleplaying. I can't do that. My choices are a bit limited on the matter. I can decide whether or not I want to act on feral impulses, which is a good thing as they are often inconvenient, embarrassing, antisocial, unhealthy, illegal or all of the above. But I didn't get any choices about having a (as far as I can tell) reasonably authentic and completely non-Disney large carnivorous animal living in the back of my brain. Actually, it literally seems to *be* the back of my brain. Let's say that it gives me some interesting perspectives.

If I lived in a pre-industrial culture or was prone to superstition, I'd say something about having an animal spirit or totem. As it is, my guess is that it's a clinical condition. Dr. Temple Grandin is something of a hero of mine, and I've talked with her enough to get a good idea that we're probably on a very similar page with our experiences.

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 11/7/2006 2:44:41 PM >

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

Post #: 39

RE: Presenting a Challenge ... - 11/7/2006 4:24:33 PM

razzberries

Posts: 19
Joined: 10/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
I've never had a sub like this but I truly believe that they are just inexprienced boys who want a Domme who is going to punish them for being *naughty*.

I'm just speculating, but is it possible that guys like that are not only inexperienced, but also conflicted? They are attracted to submission, but it conflicts with their image of masculinity. The solution, they think, is too find a woman so dominant that they will not feel shame in submitting to her.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 40

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