Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

How Grim Childhood Is..


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Polls and Other Random Stupidity >> How Grim Childhood Is.. Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/8/2006 7:28:35 AM   
JerseyKrissi72


Posts: 10238
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Reed City, Michigan
Status: offline 		My 11 yr old son asked me today "why are nursery songs so grim"? I wasn't sure what he meant then I thought about it...Some of those nursery rhymes we grew up with were so grim
 
**I was reading this book about the stories behind children's games, and I found the story about this particular one... Long ago, there was a plague about, a plague that brought apon the earth many deaths. Those who had received the disease of which this plague spread, would have a pink ring around their rosies (the place where ur lower arm and upper arm join, like an inner elbow), These rings were a sign of your coming death. When sombody died from this plague, their pockets would be filled with flowers, posies to be exact, then they would be burned. The burnt victim's ashes would then be relesed in the wind, so that all would be blessed, but the disease was only further spread. Hence the nursery rhyme, Ring around the rosies, pockets full of posies, ashes ashes, we all fall down (dead). This plague was the bubonic plague   ** Do you know of any more?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/8/2006 9:08:24 AM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		We must remember that nursery rhymes, mythology, and dramatic play are ways in which our children are taught about how to deal with traumatic life events in a safe natural way ... and all through the subconscious.  This day and age we are striving desperately to sanitize (what I call the 'Disney-fication' of our cherished stories).  The result is successive waves of generations that do not know how to deal with violence.  You CAN NOT eliminate violent tendencies within humankind, to do so is to try to deny a natural part of us.  What we CAN do is continue to teach about how to deal with these darker sides of our own humanity in natural healthy ways.  Nursery rhymes are a clear expression of that.  Now, if you look at video game violence and TV violence, it has no context nor social stigma for our youth.  They experience it in a cartoonish unrealistic way ... and thus never learn how to properly deal with it.  So, we must NOT suppress the violence within our childhood stories and rhymes, they may be the last bastion of dealing with the process of growing up in a safe environment.

Okay, now, onto some nursery rhymes.  The one about the plague has a couple of different explanations ... including the "ashes ahses" refering to the fire of London in 1666 which more or less eliminated the last big wave of the black death to hit Europe.  The Posey thing .... another possible explanation is that people carried poseies with them to A) help cover the stench of death and filth, B) it was believed the 'fresh' odors would ward off malicious ones.

Here is another neat one:
Little Jack Horner sat in the corner eating his Christmas Pie
He Stuck in his thumb and pulled out a plumb and said "What a good boy am I"

This was political satire of the day.  In the days of Henry the VIII, England went from a Catholic nation to COE.  Henry VIII (who started this whole mess) used this as an opportunity to confiscate large portions of Church owned lands.  In those days you had legal documents showing title and landownership (not unlike today).  Also in those days, you had 'highwaymen" ... robbers.  So it was not uncommon to hide valuable things in pies.  Thomas Horner (I believe his name was Thomas, not Jack) was transporting some of the documents pertaining to seized lands and allegedly stole one from one of the pies.  It is my understanding that his decendents still own the estate to this day.

There is a wonderful book I THINK it is called "Words lightly thrown" that explains many of these nursery rhymes.

fergus

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/8/2006 9:30:23 AM   
Lorelei115


Posts: 1933
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Sin City
Status: offline 		There's a reason they are called "Grimm"... *laugh* All kidding aside, try reading some of the original, un"disneyfied" fairy tales sometime. They are pretty gruesome. Like a version of Sleeping Beauty where the prince did more than just "kiss" her to wake her up. (And no, I don't mean the Anne Rice version *laugh*) Or the versions of Red Riding Hood where no huntsman came to save the day.

_____________________________

A sucessful life is not measured by what we do
But by the realization
Of who we are.

(in reply to fergus)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/8/2006 9:34:41 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		You know, life is rather grim sometimes, and fairytales are an outcropping of stuff that children are scared of as a way of dealing with the unknown.....

In the end, the princess gets the prince,
the goblin gets it and
hansel and gretel get away to do what ever kinky kinda shit they were into....

A tale is woven, and the child comes to some understanding and looks at the world with an alternative view.......

Piss on it, I have hacked it to death enough.

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Lorelei115)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/8/2006 2:31:58 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, I had wondered all my life why the words "ashes, ashes" were in "Ring Around the Rosie"! lol  That is really cool (though worthless, but who cares?) information!

I always thought "when the bough breaks the cradle will fall, and down will come baby, cradle and all" was awful.  As is "If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take".  Yikes!

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/8/2006 3:07:57 PM   
JerseyKrissi72


Posts: 10238
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Reed City, Michigan
Status: offline 		Lady bug
Lady bug
fly away home.
Your house in on fire
and your children
will burn.

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/8/2006 9:34:04 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		yeah the bow will break nursury does not engender a sense of peace to me. I will never sing it to any kids I have.

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/8/2006 11:15:06 PM   
LadySeraphina


Posts: 931
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: Calgary, Canada
Status: offline 		On the story arc, have you ever read the real 'little mermaid'? It's very much about sacrifice for love, and how if you reach above your station it will likely end in sorrow - but might be worth if for what small shred of hope there is of it all working out.

_____________________________

"Men are like wine. They start out as grapes and its up to the woman to stomp the crap out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with." -Unknown

www.LadySeraphina.ca

www.SeraphinasToybox.com.

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/8/2006 11:23:21 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The Posey thing .... another possible explanation is that people carried poseies with them to A) help cover the stench of death and filth, B) it was believed the 'fresh' odors would ward off malicious ones.


I remember reading somewhere that the poseies were used to color people's cheeks giving them a rosy, less sickly appearance. But the memory is vague so I might be mistaken and... I most likely am.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to fergus)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/9/2006 1:52:48 AM   
JerseyKrissi72


Posts: 10238
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Reed City, Michigan
Status: offline 		Don't ask me where we got it from but as kids we would take dandelions and pluck the flowers off and see how high they would fly and say "Momma had a baby and it's head popped off"

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/9/2006 12:10:12 PM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72

Don't ask me where we got it from but as kids we would take dandelions and pluck the flowers off and see how high they would fly and say "Momma had a baby and it's head popped off"


Me too.  I wonder if that was a Jersey thing?  a generational thing? or what?

fergus

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/9/2006 1:41:52 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		There's a good book on the subject "Who Killed Cock Robin" (dont recall the author). It goes through nursery rhymes and fairytales and shows where they come from. Also suggest the original Grimm Bros works - full of violence (overt) and lots of sex (less overt) - ever wondered why Red Riding Hood had a red riding hood? (and its nothing to do with headgear btw!)

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to fergus)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/9/2006 1:43:26 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		isn't this cross-posted from oral with menustration thread?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/9/2006 1:51:09 PM   
JerseyKrissi72


Posts: 10238
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Reed City, Michigan
Status: offline 		You lost me there buddy

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/9/2006 1:53:26 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Ron - are you talking about Red Riding Hood?

Its nothing to do with menstruation either, at least the way I read it!

I see it as a story about the awakening of sexuality in a young woman and a cautionary tale about men. But thats just me, could be wrong, there you go!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/9/2006 2:07:18 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I just recently found a great children's book - Ugly fish.

More or less, it's about an ugly fish, alone in a tank, having fun.

Then a smaller fish gets added who says hello, gets eaten, and ugly fish has fun again.

Then a smaller fish gets added who says hello, gets eaten, and ugly fish has fun again.

Finally, ugly fish gets lonely, and wants a friend.  He waits for a new fish, and a bigger fish gets thrown in.

Ugly fish introduces himself and the new one eats him.

How's that for a fucked up story?

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/9/2006 2:08:24 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		Ladybug Ladybug fly away home
your house is on fire
your children all gone
all except one and that's little krissi (insert childs name here)
and she has crept up to give me a kissy  (make up ryhme to go with childs name)

on a related note, obviously Peter Peter Pumpkin eater was the first guy into caging 'kept her in a pumpkin shell' hehe

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: How Grim Childhood Is.. - 11/9/2006 6:29:31 PM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Lady Ellen is right.  I had heard the story has some of its earliest source tales from Italy.

fergus

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 18
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Polls and Other Random Stupidity >> How Grim Childhood Is.. Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078