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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/18/2006 5:53:01 PM   
sissifytoserve


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Hi Mikal.


Ive always liked the dark chocolate ones with coffee beans in it.

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/18/2006 6:04:25 PM   
Mikal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve
Ive always liked the dark chocolate ones with coffee beans in it.

Ohhhhhh... they sound good... *drools... coffee....* I don't suppose you have a reciepe for them do you???? *wiggles eyebrows*
 
Personally, I'm a chocoholic... chocolate chip cookies (homemade by someone other than myself) are simply heaven... *grin*
 
Oh, and Morrigel, please don't include me in whatever it is that you are grumping about... I try not to personally attack people, and I fail to see how asking someone about their cookie preference is in any way an attack. Unless you are a vegan and think I'm attacking cookie ingredients?

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/18/2006 6:05:26 PM   
ModeratorEleven


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Ok children, enough is enough. 

XI

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/18/2006 7:11:46 PM   
AlexAussieSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Denny17

waht do you say about scientist who proved women are in more way superior to men as being smarter using more of their brains, enduring pain better, having more stamina, bodies being better built to handle stress, getting less illmess, better memory etc and taking over areas like grad school and in politics and work force.  Sexually emotionally and spirutually they aer not even comparable to us. What makes a person better morally or ethically is a different story.
What I fear is their sexuality the most.  We are ruled by female sexuality all our lives if you aint gay. From the begining of our lives and until we die no man ever fully commands a woman.  We are pussy-whipped and we know it". 
  


The whole we are ruled by female sexuality thing is bullshit. Have a look at how women act when men refuse to have sex with them. But seeing that you believing all men are pussy-whipped implies you believe you are too (the fact that you've got some random chick as your avatar proves this even more), you would never have done this and so wouldn't know. Just because you're pussy-whipped doesn't mean every other guy is.

I thought the research said that women were stronger at using the two hemispheres of their brains together, but that men were stronger at using them seperately. There have also been studies done that show that men endure pain better than women, but I haven't heard of one that says the reverse.

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/18/2006 8:57:11 PM   
Denny17


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[[/quote]

The whole we are ruled by female sexuality thing is bullshit.  Just because you're pussy-whipped doesn't mean every other guy is.

[/quote]

Bahumbug,  AlexAssusieSub. Sissy man
say they arent thrilled to be pussywhipped
but real men love it. down and raw

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/19/2006 3:01:06 AM   
MisPandora


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

*shakes her head*  Sorry, but people really need to do at least SOME of their "research" on Goddess worship in places other than the Llewellyn New Age mysticism catalog,....

Hey now....some of us are PUBLISHED there in that Llewellyn catalog.......

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/19/2006 6:45:19 AM   
Morrigel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora
Hey now....some of us are PUBLISHED there in that Llewellyn catalog.......


Sorry darlin'.  I have nothing against religious faith in general, but I don't believe that wishful thinking is a substitute for scientific and historical fact.  There is plenty of real information available on the history and prehistory of Europe, but most of the facts are ignored or directly contradicted by books from Llewellyn.

The notion that "druids" or "Celts" erected the megalithic monuments is particularly widespread and particularly annoying.  The first evidence of the La Tene culture comes from 450 BC--the last megalithic monuments in Europe were erected nearly a thousand years earlier.  The Celtic priest class may have used a place like Stonehenge once they moved into town, but they didn't build it--any more than the modern white occupants of Illinois built the great mound city at Cahokia.

--M

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/19/2006 6:54:21 AM   
DiannaVesta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora
Hey now....some of us are PUBLISHED there in that Llewellyn catalog.......


Sorry darlin'.  I have nothing against religious faith in general, but I don't believe that wishful thinking is a substitute for scientific and historical fact.  There is plenty of real information available on the history and prehistory of Europe, but most of the facts are ignored or directly contradicted by books from Llewellyn.

The notion that "druids" or "Celts" erected the megalithic monuments is particularly widespread and particularly annoying.  The first evidence of the La Tene culture comes from 450 BC--the last megalithic monuments in Europe were erected nearly a thousand years earlier.  The Celtic priest class may have used a place like Stonehenge once they moved into town, but they didn't build it--any more than the modern white occupants of Illinois built the great mound city at Cahokia.

--M


With all due respect… are you serious??? Do you have any idea how often we’ve been lied to and deceived by HISTORY? I find that statement really surprising coming from you. Facts and history, for the most part is a bunch of BS, if you ask me.
  I also think that you insulted her and that just isn’t right.


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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/19/2006 7:15:11 AM   
Morrigel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
With all due respect… are you serious??? Do you have any idea how often we’ve been lied to and deceived by HISTORY?


Yes, I'm dead serious.  As a person taking the time to get a degree in archaeology and anthropology, I take the process of peer review and confirmation in science very damn seriously indeed.

As for being lied to and deceived by history--yes, I'm well aware that people lie, even in written documents.  Hence I am more likely to use the phrase "La Tene culture" rather than "Celt"--"Celt" was a word applied to many disparate iron age tribes of north and western Europe by their enemies, the Greeks and Romans, who knew very little about them.

Historical documents are interesting to me only to the degree that they can be confirmed by archaeological evidence.  There is ample support for some of the Greek claims about the "keltoi"--in other cases, the cultural biases of the author are fairly apparent.

Regardless, the dates placed on the rise and fall of any given ancient culture are not based on written records.  They are based on carbon dating, stratigraphy and other relative dating techniques.  People may lie--but the earth does not.  And when the story told by ancient rock, earth, stone and wood do not agree with the fairy tales in any written book--be it the Bible or the latest release from Llewellyn--I will place greater faith in the former.

I'm sorry if anyone finds this insulting. 

--M

< Message edited by Morrigel -- 11/19/2006 7:16:09 AM >

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/19/2006 7:35:30 AM   
LadyClaudiaVan


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[/quote]

The whole we are ruled by female sexuality thing is bullshit. [/quote]

AlexAussieSub- Ive know a Sissy with multiple personalites.
He felt the same as you Alex. Liking to dress up and worship women and sometimes quite the opposite.  After struggling with his gender bending he came to accept female sexuality's strength especially when going out to bars.  He looked quite good.

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/19/2006 7:58:57 AM   
LadyEllen


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Ladies, please! History and the New Age are related, but not the same thing at all.

History is only what we think we know, from interpretation of the evidence; evidence which is often fragmented in time and place, selectively left to us and open to the interpretations of the time. Nevertheless it is all we have to know anything about the past, and is therefore invaluable to us.

But in reality the past does not really exist as a separate entity; rather, everything which has happened and is happening now, is in a continuous present which stretches back and forward in time. There is no event, whether human, animal or natural in its origin, which is not still with us in its effects, however distorted the consequent acts from those initial effects, have become in making the initial act almost irretrievable for us to know. Cause, act, effect, cause, act, effect and so on.

Where we are now, is the result of countless such causes, acts and effects. They have made us and are within us, and are all around us, the root origins of our present circumstances lying buried in the deepest past, genetic, psychological and environmental.

We can and should treat the past as a separate study, in order to be as certain as possible of the origins of our present circumstances. But at the same time, we should also recognise, that all of us and everything around us, are products of that past, and more importantly that the future is only the continuing progress of the continuous present in which we live. Just as the present is the product of the total sum of historical acts and events, so the future grows in the same organic way from the present.

With historical study we can also trace the evolution of ourselves and our circumstances from then to now. This is important, as it shows that however slowly, we and our circumstances evolve. We can study the history of the Roman Empire, but in doing so we must consider close on a thousand years' period, at the end of which the Empire was very different to the way it was at the start, socially, legally, genetically and in every other way. The best which history can tell us therefore, is how things probably were, at a certain time and at a certain place, giving us clues as to the preceding and following situation which we can link to evidence of the former and following times to demonstrate the veracity of our theories.

What the better New Age books (such as the Llewellyn) try to do in my opinion is to take what is known from genuine historical study, and force the evolution of that into the modern day - force, since actual history went very differently in most cases - in order to bring what is perceived as valuable from the past into the modern world. In the end, they are only as powerful in the modern world, as the number of people who read them and find lasting benefit in them, and then enable their sources and circumstances to become part of the modern world, and to continue to evolve within it.

Thus, a New Age writer can take, for the purpose of this thread, historical evidence pointing towards a matriarchal society existing in a certain place at a certain time, and use that evidence to portray a matriarchical society today, and describe its benefits, in the hope of preaching those benefits and having as much as society as possible, undertake such an organisation in the modern world. Such a publication, by its very nature, requires a certain degree of imagination in transposing its subject matter - but the sole means of validation for it, is whether it is practical, desirable, coherent, and most importantly for it to re-enter history as a social influence, it must be followed by enough people and be passed on to the descendants.

In this way, historical study is valuable to the degree that it is true, just as New Age publications are valuable to the degree that they reenter history in the modern world. They are related themes, but distinct, and equally valuable - in a similar way to the relation and distinction inherent in scientific cosmology and spiritual cosmology; both are valuable, both are true because each deals with a different human need, which the other cannot meet.

Hope that makes sense

E



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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/19/2006 8:30:43 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

History is only what we think we know, from interpretation of the evidence; evidence which is often fragmented in time and place, selectively left to us and open to the interpretations of the time. Nevertheless it is all we have to know anything about the past, and is therefore invaluable to us.



*claps*

Do you know how difficult it is to teach students this let alone the average person?

Thinking about things historically is skill, a trained and practiced skill, it is not natural for human being who tend to think what their life is like now is how it has always been, to put their current attitudes onto all people and places unless vilifying them serves some purpose, and who seem to need to form groups to feel safer.

As an ancient historian I could cry about how much we've lost or I could deal with what survives, try to be as objective as possible, and admit when I just can't know.

Sort of sideways connection to the general topic would be the fact that I'm working on the Amazon legends in the Greco-Roman world for my dissertation. Archaeological finds suggests that female warriors and hunters were not that uncommon in some nomadic and semi-nomadic peoples but a nation of women as described in the Greco-Roman texts is unsupported outside those texts and texts heavily influenced by those cultures.

Now the fantasy of Amazons today might be HOT for some folks and indeed I've seen some porn sites, some sexuality sites and some political sites showing how strong the image is today. But that does not equal the existance of any real Amazons in the past.

And why should it?

Why would we want it to be real?

What would we gain from some past where women ruled?

That was a big idea for a lot of social scientists in the 19th century and you know how they used it? To demonstrate that patriarchy was superior because in their eyes whatever conquered, must have been better than that which it destroyed.

Of course this is my general bitch about the historical search for anything kinky or sexual or social.

That's the past, this is today. We live in today and in the future.

There are tons of things from the past that would would consider horrible and immoral today, regardless of religious leanings.

As a historian I love thinking about and exploring the past -- I would never want to live there.

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/19/2006 6:54:05 PM   
chastityboyinOzz


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quote:


__________You and EVERYONE on this site who whinges on about the Evils of Female Supremacy can characterize yourselves as nothing more that sexist hypocrites.
__________________


Coming from a person who stated a Female Supremacist can be a Female submissive, which is not the same view as Elise Sutton et al. But the bulk of the usage of the term Female Supremacy is used in conjuction with BDSM, and you know, advocates for men being kept in horse pens as slaves. Considering "vanilla" men don't have a stable of horse stalls for their numerous wives- I don't see how its sexist for a male (submissive or otherwise) to criticise Female Supremacy. Maybe if the said male had several female slaves and believed all men should have women as slaves- then that would be hypocritical. BDSM, and domination of men as slaves/subs is very apparent in the ideals of the Female Supremacy, which, as much as people like to delude themselves, is NOT exactly a mirror opposite of patriarchy in terms of social ideals.





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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/19/2006 7:17:49 PM   
mantis65


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityboyinOzz

quote:


__________You and EVERYONE on this site who whinges on about the Evils of Female Supremacy can characterize yourselves as nothing more that sexist hypocrites.
__________________


Coming from a person who stated a Female Supremacist can be a Female submissive, which is not the same view as Elise Sutton et al. But the bulk of the usage of the term Female Supremacy is used in conjuction with BDSM, and you know, advocates for men being kept in horse pens as slaves. Considering "vanilla" men don't have a stable of horse stalls for their numerous wives- I don't see how its sexist for a male (submissive or otherwise) to criticise Female Supremacy. Maybe if the said male had several female slaves and believed all men should have women as slaves- then that would be hypocritical. BDSM, and domination of men as slaves/subs is very apparent in the ideals of the Female Supremacy, which, as much as people like to delude themselves, is NOT exactly a mirror opposite of patriarchy in terms of social ideals.







Yes please, let’s talk more about the women that are keeping men in horse pens!
The new age/religion and political arguments seem to have drifted away from the topic here.

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/19/2006 11:13:07 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mantis65
Yes please, let’s talk more about the women that are keeping men in horse pens!
The new age/religion and political arguments seem to have drifted away from the topic here.
LOL, do I have to have horse pens and multiple male slaves, because I don't have one, and only want one.   M

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/20/2006 12:21:12 AM   
mantis65


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: mantis65
Yes please, let’s talk more about the women that are keeping men in horse pens!
The new age/religion and political arguments seem to have drifted away from the topic here.
LOL, do I have to have horse pens and multiple male slaves, because I don't have one, and only want one.   M


i am willing to settle for a dog house or indoor kennel . 

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/20/2006 1:32:24 AM   
LadyEllen


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Amazons; you know, it always seemed to me, to be pretty much of a mythical device, the idea of a nation of warrior women. I dont know the earliest reference, but I'm guessing the Golden Fleece (Jason and the Argonauts) could be at least one of the earliest.

If one reads that story, it becomes apparent that Jason and his crew encounter women all along their journey, but a deeper reading indicates that each encounter is with some archetypal female force, represented by those women; the Amazons included. The story of Jason is an educational and cautionary tale to young men of that culture about women, the general idea being I guess to make sure they understand that women are not all of a kind and that each woman is as multi-facted and complex as they. Something which young men nowadays could benefit from too, and something attempted to be conveyed in the feminist slogan "women are people too".

In north European tradition, we have Little Red Riding Hood, which is a similar sort of story for young women, regarding men.

Of course though, with the coming of the desert religion, such tales as these were replaced with what I can only describe as the patriarchal and misogynistic ramblings of males whose heritage being that of slaves, seemed to feel the need to establish themselves as naturally superior to about the only people over whom they could exercise any dominance - their women.

And now, in the last century or so, the ancient folktales have been again suppressed, despite a brief resurgence in the Romantic period, by the modern entertainment industry which turned them to simple adventures and the PC movement which tries to sanitise them.

In essence though, the originals remain true, even though the mythic figures they feature were never literally true. The thing is, taking the Amazons as example, it would simply be impractical and personally dissatisfying for the members, as well as not an adequate survival strategy, to have a nation of women, however warlike and able to take care of themselves. For all the masturbatory fantasies about such a society on the part of men who desire to be with women, women desire to be with men.

There is a marked difference between the type of female supremacy which an Amazon society depicts as a theme in a myth or sexual fantasy, and what would be practical, desirable and satisfying in a real world matriarchy for both sides.

E

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/20/2006 3:52:59 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Is that what they're teaching you in your archaeology program?  All the "scientific" evidence in the world is useless without interpretation.  Suppose you have an artifact and can confidently date it to X B.C.  So what?  That's where archaeology BEGINS, not where it ends.  The next thing you need to do is determine the place of the item in the culture that produced it, and no amount of C-14 dating is going to tell you that.  You have to decide how typical it is on the basis of the circumstances of its production and disposal.  You have to decide who would have used it, how, and why.

Some other people have told you similar things about historical documents--and they're female, so you might actually take their opinion seriously--but I was pretty stunned to see that a graduate student in archaeology really seems to believe that archaeologically excavated materials don't reveal "cultural biases."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

Historical documents are interesting to me only to the degree that they can be confirmed by archaeological evidence.  There is ample support for some of the Greek claims about the "keltoi"--in other cases, the cultural biases of the author are fairly apparent.

Regardless, the dates placed on the rise and fall of any given ancient culture are not based on written records.  They are based on carbon dating, stratigraphy and other relative dating techniques.  People may lie--but the earth does not.  And when the story told by ancient rock, earth, stone and wood do not agree with the fairy tales in any written book--be it the Bible or the latest release from Llewellyn--I will place greater faith in the former.

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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/20/2006 5:09:20 AM   
DiannaVesta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mantis65

quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityboyinOzz

quote:


__________You and EVERYONE on this site who whinges on about the Evils of Female Supremacy can characterize yourselves as nothing more that sexist hypocrites.
__________________


Coming from a person who stated a Female Supremacist can be a Female submissive, which is not the same view as Elise Sutton et al. But the bulk of the usage of the term Female Supremacy is used in conjuction with BDSM, and you know, advocates for men being kept in horse pens as slaves. Considering "vanilla" men don't have a stable of horse stalls for their numerous wives- I don't see how its sexist for a male (submissive or otherwise) to criticise Female Supremacy. Maybe if the said male had several female slaves and believed all men should have women as slaves- then that would be hypocritical. BDSM, and domination of men as slaves/subs is very apparent in the ideals of the Female Supremacy, which, as much as people like to delude themselves, is NOT exactly a mirror opposite of patriarchy in terms of social ideals.







Yes please, let’s talk more about the women that are keeping men in horse pens!
The new age/religion and political arguments seem to have drifted away from the topic here.




Yes good idea. I agree that we have really turned this thread into a major shit slinging debate. Certainly not my thing but it does give you better insight into personality types. That I find fascinating. When I watch politicians on TV being petty during election I can’t help but shake my head. How do mature grown people get to that point?   Anyhow, about men in pens.. lol- I like that! The idea of this has always fascinated me. I’ve had men as puppies before and used small cages.
  The idea of having a barn with stables and keeping men in there is exciting for me. Call me crazy but it’s hot. I keep them in the barn on hay, they drink & eat from buckets and in the morning I let them out to work the fields while I stand on my deck overlooking their slave labor. Yeah it works for me! In fact once I build another barn these accommodations will be considered.  I’m as serious as a heart attack.

But I guess I would be considered more normal in the eyes of SOME if I kept men wearing dresses in my house.


Which would you pick?
    


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RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy - 11/20/2006 5:25:43 AM   
LadyEllen


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Why not wearing dresses in the fields?

With severe punishments for getting mud on any one of the countless satin petticoats LOL!?

E

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