RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in.

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/12/2006 9:54:47 PM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

Im not getting the correlation between the smoking and the kids getting thermosol.

_____________________________

marie.

I give good agita.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Profile

Post #: 21

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/12/2006 9:56:52 PM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Im not getting the correlation between the smoking and the kids getting thermosol.

That is because there is none.
Except in the OPs nicotine-stained brain.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to marieToo)

Profile

Post #: 22

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/12/2006 10:07:35 PM

cabernet

Posts: 40
Joined: 4/10/2004
Status: offline

I fully support your right to smoke wherever and whenever you feel the need.

Probably in the same way you fully support my right to not have to inhale the carcinogenic substance you are indulging in. Now that we have clarified our willingness to fully support each other's rights. Please clarify how I can go to a bar to listen to a band without inhaling your second hand smoke.

Im listening...
Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy... Didn't you ever think of wearing a gas mask???

I quit smoking over eight years ago. At the time I had been living in Austin, Texas for about a year and they didn't allow smoking in restaurants, but it was still allowed in bars. When I decided to quit smoking it helped because I was used to not having a cigarette (or two or three) after a meal when out at restaurants. It would have helped even more if the bars had been smoke-free as well because I had to avoid them for over a year because the temptation of smoking was just too great. Maybe you should think of this as an opportunity instead of something bad.

Admittedly if the bars and clubs had gone smoke-free while I was still smoking I would have hated it at first. But eventually I would have gotten used to it and dealt with it. We're human, we adapt. However, I do think that it is excessive that a bar would charge people for re-entry if they are going outside to smoke or for any reason. That is not un-like price gauging (sp?) at the gas pumps.

And I know many more people who didn't smoke who avoided bars and clubs because they didn't like the smoke than I know smokers who aren't going to places now because they are smoke-free. The draw of alcohol and dancing and fun tends to be a bigger draw than cigarettes.

(in reply to MzKaren)

Profile

Post #: 23

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/12/2006 10:46:14 PM

Bluebird

Posts: 384
Joined: 2/17/2006
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

I'm actually looking forward to being able to go to a munch again after Dec 8 - the date Nevada's new ordinance goes into effect. I am *shocked* that it actually passed here, but despite the pub owners who feel as the OP does (I think - I was having a bit of trouble following his paranoid delusional rant), I think people who like to eat, drink and gamble will continue to do so despite the inconvenience of having to step outside for a cancer stick.

The issue with thimerasol - that may be a serious issue, but unrelated to smoking. It is found in all manner of vaccines - from the childhood series all the way through the annual flu vaccine. A lot of people do have an allergy to it, but that doesn't mean it should be banned, any more than peanut butter should be banned universally because some people have very serious allergies to it.

_____________________________

Love is patient, love is kind. I am neither. Get over it.

(in reply to cabernet)

Profile

Post #: 24

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/12/2006 10:51:10 PM

MzKaren

Posts: 14
Joined: 9/21/2006
Status: offline

Sinergy,

roflmao!!! Oh gosh!!! Is the trashbag with duct tape placed before the forced imbibing of antifreeze? Huh, huh? Please say yes!!! lol!

Why does insomnia make me slap happy? That's another thread.

I thought that was what happened with the reply. Just making certain though. Ya never know. lol!

Karen

< Message edited by MzKaren -- 11/12/2006 11:37:26 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)

Profile

Post #: 25

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/12/2006 11:00:51 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

OK, you non-smokers might've had the best intentions, a child could wander into a bar, catch a whiff of second hand smoke and die of cancer, so you did good thinking about the children. Now that you have trampled the Constitution and made things worse in that venture I would like to direct your attention to a much more serious problem. Remember we need to think about the children here. OK the children

No, but the people who work in bars are subjected to an unsafe work environment and deserve clean air.

quote:

Have you heard of thimerosal ? It is a presevative used in vaccines given to babies. People who work for the company (Ely Lilly) sit on the board of the CDC, but that should be OK right ? This is just part of the cooperation between industry and covernment.

Fact is they are dumping huge amounts of thimerosal into newborn babies. Thimerosal contains a high percentage of mercury, which is known to cause autism. K N O W N, not suspected.

If you are a non-smoker would you rather inhale smoke or take this stuff ? The smoke might not be good for you, but the thimerosal is laden with mercury. I would take the smoke. And the poor little babies they poison with this stuff have no say in the matter whatsoever. Do you trust your newborn babies to people who would poison them ? Yes you do. You have taken away the rights of millions of business owner across the country in the name of (whatever).

I do not take vaccines anymore and neither does my son. If your argument is that because we accept one health risk but not another that is not rational. Many people are ignorant about vaccines, that does not mean we should all breathe poisoned air.

Since you as asking which health risk I like, how about I ask you the same.. would you rather I gouged out your eyes or blew out your ears drums.. your question makes about as much sense as that one.

as far as this...

quote:

So all you non-smoker who have won the issue, and are going to close down about half of the small businesses in Ohio, take note. I think this is a much bigger issue. Why haven't I heard much about it. This is a way more serious issue, or what, you want to make your kid autistic ?

In California there are many bars and restaurants that are going fine without smoker's business

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Profile

Post #: 26

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/12/2006 11:33:31 PM

diamonddreamlove

Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

Ex smoker and loved it until i found i loved breathing more. Your right does not over ride my right to breath. My inhaler is expensive and so is the other meds i take to keep breathing when someone is smoking around me. As a smoker i had the courtesy not to smoke around nonsmokers without their permission. Oh and i have an autistic step son that has had autism since birth not since shots so not buying that theory. As for more diagnosis being made of autism it is mostly because folks are becoming more aware that there are degrees of autism rather than all being severe cases. And do NOT ever make the mistake of saying in front of me that my child is an idiot. He has talents that most likely surpass your own and one is that he does not deliberately bait others to hurt them. Given the choice of being with the autisitic or a smoker without courtesy then i will hang out with the autisitic.

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to Sinergy)

Profile

Post #: 27

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/12/2006 11:35:29 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

If you are expecting a rational debate on this issue you are wasting your time. Far more people get cancers and/or die from other environmental pollutants and bad diet but banning them or modifying behaviour will interfer with commerce so they won't get banned and behaviour won't be forced to change. Banning smoking looks good because there is a health issue there but its not a major issue such as carbon emissions are. Smoking affects an individual, carbon emissions effect the future of the planet but then, its future generations that have to deal with that so fuck 'em. If people really had a conscience they would sell their cars and stop flying, turn off their airconditioning in summer and reduce their heating in winter. Governments are dragging their feet on that because while people get irrationally worked up about smoking, they don't get rightfully worked up about the future of the planet.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Profile

Post #: 28

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 6:14:32 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

If you are expecting a rational debate on this issue you are wasting your time. Far more people get cancers and/or die from other environmental pollutants and bad diet but banning them or modifying behaviour will interfer with commerce so they won't get banned and behaviour won't be forced to change. Banning smoking looks good because there is a health issue there but its not a major issue such as carbon emissions are. Smoking affects an individual, carbon emissions effect the future of the planet but then, its future generations that have to deal with that so fuck 'em. If people really had a conscience they would sell their cars and stop flying, turn off their airconditioning in summer and reduce their heating in winter. Governments are dragging their feet on that because while people get irrationally worked up about smoking, they don't get rightfully worked up about the future of the planet.

Come on meatcleaver, you tried this disingenuous spiel in the other smoking threads and it didn't work there either. No one is saying that environmental pollutants and carbon emissions aren't a problem, and people are trying to do things about those as well. The hitch is the things that produce those emissions are necessary to many people's lives. The same can't and could never be said for smoking. The only people who "need" smoking are the tobacco companies.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Profile

Post #: 29

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 6:43:18 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Come on meatcleaver, you tried this disingenuous spiel in the other smoking threads and it didn't work there either. No one is saying that environmental pollutants and carbon emissions aren't a problem, and people are trying to do things about those as well. The hitch is the things that produce those emissions are necessary to many people's lives. The same can't and could never be said for smoking. The only people who "need" smoking are the tobacco companies.

~stef

Americans use twice as much energy per capita than the average westerner who uses umpteen times more energy than Chineese and Indians who use more than the average African. Most of the energy in the west is wasted and the majority is used on unnecessary luxury. Carbon emissions could be cut significantly within five-ten years without any detriment to people's lives but people don't want to cut down on luxury and waste which is why the politicians keep waiting for other countries to move first. If people looked at their lives they would realise they are causing far more deadly pollution through wasting energy and being luxury consumers than smoking does. It's not a disingenuous argument. If the average person is really concerned about bad health and pollution they would do something about it but they don't.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/13/2006 6:44:51 AM >

(in reply to stef)

Profile

Post #: 30

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 7:03:09 AM

MsOpal

Posts: 244
Joined: 8/31/2006
Status: offline

Two of the largest cities in Texas, San Antonio and Austin, have been smoke free at ALL indoor venues for sometime now. There was a huge hue and cry that it would mean the closing of bars and clubs. Guess what? No more closed than was normal (it is a competitive, cut-throat business) and even many of our friends who threatened they would never spend another penny to see a show/band in a smoke free location still go, spend their money, buy drinks, and smoke less! We are far more likely to go to a club now and when we go we stay longer because we can actually breath!
BTW, some stats - San Antonio and Austin rank 7th and 16th in population in the US, so we are not talking about some little hick burbs. San Antonio and Austin are both nationally recognized as live music meccas in the industry, and not for CW music! SanAntonio is one of the cities where heavy metal and punk bands go one tours, and Austin has long been known as The Live Music Capitol of the World. The SXSW Festival is one of the world's largest music festivals, and it has continued to grow, even after the smoking ban went into effect.

I am an "ex" smoker who does sometimes still enjoy a smoke. But my right to smoke ends when someone else needs to breath the same air that I am exhaling my smoke into!

just my feelings.
MsOpal

(in reply to Sinergy)

Profile

Post #: 31

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 7:17:50 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

You've reminded me of another thing. If people were really concerned about health, they would call for a ban on alcohol which debatably causes more illness and misery than smoke.

(in reply to MsOpal)

Profile

Post #: 32

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 7:27:59 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

That was tried a few years ago in the U.S.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Profile

Post #: 33

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 7:30:52 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather
That is because there is none.
Except in the OPs nicotine-stained brain.

Yes, forgive him. It's just the drugs talking.

(in reply to justheather)

Profile

Post #: 34

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 8:05:25 AM

saskslave

Posts: 69
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline

I doubt that bars/pubs/nightclubs/restaurants in Cleveland will suffer with a smoking ban. Smoking is banned in much of these places in Canada, and business actually went up slightly--I think 6%. The ones that it did hurt is the rural hotels with a bar.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Profile

Post #: 35

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 8:27:56 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Americans use twice as much energy per capita than the average westerner who uses umpteen times more energy than Chineese and Indians who use more than the average African. Most of the energy in the west is wasted and the majority is used on unnecessary luxury. Carbon emissions could be cut significantly within five-ten years without any detriment to people's lives but people don't want to cut down on luxury and waste which is why the politicians keep waiting for other countries to move first. If people looked at their lives they would realise they are causing far more deadly pollution through wasting energy and being luxury consumers than smoking does. It's not a disingenuous argument. If the average person is really concerned about bad health and pollution they would do something about it but they don't.

Do you see anyone here disagreeing with this? Changing the subject of the ORIGINAL argument doesn't change the facts of that argument, no matter how many times you try.

quote:

You've reminded me of another thing. If people were really concerned about health, they would call for a ban on alcohol which debatably causes more illness and misery than smoke.

I don't suppose you have some numbers to back that up? The abuse of alcohol might, but not alcohol in and of itself. Alcohol in moderation even has some proven health benefits. The same certainly cannot be said for smoking. How long do you plan to keep this ludicrous argument going?

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Profile

Post #: 36

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 8:50:37 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

How long do you plan to keep this ludicrous argument going?

~stef

Until someone gives a rational explanation about the lack of interest in more harmful substances and habits in society. As the OP eluded to in his mentioning of thimerosal, though I don't know enough to agree or disagree with him on that score, there are plenty of other pollutants and poisons and health hazards in society that no one seems to care about. Though I put the accentuation on tobacco down to a streak of puritanism that runs through society and my guess is that most people are hostile to this one substance rather than more harmful substances in their environment because there are people who so obviously enjoy this vice.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/13/2006 8:51:08 AM >

(in reply to stef)

Profile

Post #: 37

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 8:57:22 AM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

First of all let me preface my reply by saying that I am a smoker, and I have an autistic son who's autism manifested very shortly after he recieved his MMR vaccine (and no my 2nd son did not get that vaccine - which is a real pain to pull off paperwork wise with the schools, etc.)
In Ottawa there has been a very comprehensive smoking ban in place at all indoor clubs, etc. for around 6 years now. When the ban went into effect there was a larger than normal number of bars that went under, but (and here is the key) they were reopened just as quickly as normal.
The entry fee issue existed as well, and it was solved very simply....it doesn't exist. Now you can get up and leave for a smoke and come back in any time....how? simple, they use the time honoured hand stamp....brilliant no?
I will admit I don't hit the bars as often as I used to, and while some of that is due to the inconvenience of having to step outside in an Ottawa winter, I suspect more of it just has to do with ageing and economics.
There will be bars closing, and they will reopen under new management. There will be a temporary drop in smokers going to bars, etc., until the bars work out ways to accomodate them (many bars here have covered and somewhat heated outdoor areas for the smokers).
The no smoking = no patrons has no real merit when you realise that smokers are the minority (otherwise the no-smoking bans would never pass). The predicted exodus of smokers didn't happen here, and the expected influx of non-smokers didn't either. In the immediate aftermath of the ban there was indeed a sudden rush of non-smoking non bar patrons going out and of smoking bar patrons staying home...but guess what? The non-smokers who didn't go to bars, well most of them still don't go to bars...they mostly discovered that they didn't go to bars & clubs because they didn't like going to bars & clubs. And the smokers? Well they discovered that there was a lot more they liked about the bar scene than their ability to smoke, and they went back to going to the bars.
And the issue really isn't if some non-smoking patron can enjoy the bar smoke-free, it is really about the employees...you know the poor underpaid waitresses, who have to put up with having their asses pinched, listenning to the same oh-so-witty come-on lines, and cheap-assed tippers. They still have to put up with all that, but they don't have to put up with breathing in clouds of smoke every time they go to work.
That is the issue, the rights of the workers there to work in a healthy environment.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Profile

Post #: 38

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 9:07:53 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Until someone gives a rational explanation about the lack of interest in more harmful substances and habits in society.

There isn't a lack of interest. You can't possibly expect all the worlds problems to be solved at the same time, can you?

quote:

As the OP eluded to in his mentioning of thimerosal, though I don't know enough to agree or disagree with him on that score, there are plenty of other pollutants and poisons and health hazards in society that no one seems to care about.

Of course people care. You're hardly the only person on the planet who does.

quote:

Though I put the accentuation on tobacco down to a streak of puritanism that runs through society and my guess is that most people are hostile to this one substance rather than more harmful substances in their environment because there are people who so obviously enjoy this vice.

Or it was dealt with first because as I previously pointed out, there is absolutely no benefit to anyone other than the tobacco industry by smoking. By the way, feel free to follow up at your earliest convenience with the figures on alcohol related "illness and misery" that aren't associated with alcohol abuse that you neglected to address in your reply.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Profile

Post #: 39

RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. - 11/13/2006 9:19:16 AM

Lorelei115

Posts: 1933
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Sin City
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~

Wow.. no offense to the OP but you need to lighten up on "non-smokers". That's wayyy to general a term for the people you are referring to. Not all "non-smokers" are smoke-nazis who want to deprive you of your god given right to destroy your body in any way you deem fit. I'm an ex smoker (Over a year now and proud as hell of it!) but I have never lobbied for smoking bans or gone up to somone smoking a cigarette outside and asked "Do you know how bad that is for you?"

I personally think it should be up to the individual business owner whether they want their establishment to be smoking or non-smoking. After all, they OWN it. If their workers don't like the policy, they can work somewhere else. If the customers don't like it, they can patronise somewhere else.

And thats my 2 cents. Plus tobacco tax of course... whats that up to these days?

_____________________________

A sucessful life is not measured by what we do
But by the realization
Of who we are.

(in reply to stef)

Profile

Post #: 40