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What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:01:19 PM   
Shylahgirl


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This is a two-part question. Just something that has been floating around in my head for a while.

It’s just something I really would like some input on.

Part one: Why is it when first entering the BDSM lifestyle so many people, more often then not say they are dominant rather then submissive?

I’ve noticed this with many new submissives… there’s usually, from what I’ve seen, a huge leaning to wanting to be dominant at first before they get to know the lifestyle a little better.

Part two: Why is it that some new submissives that I’ve seen who come into the lifestyle wanting to be submissive usually have some kind of self esteem problem?

In my experience a lot of these people want to be hurt and humiliated because they think that they deserve no better and need to be punished. (I’ve just met a few people like this and have a hard time understanding why they’d think submission is a way of punishing your self)

This is just me being curious. I hope these questions don’t offend anyone.

Shylah

 
P.S.
 I would like to note that these questions come form my experince with others. These questions are NOT a generalization of all submissives.
 
Personally I identify as submissive and am very happy in my life with my wonderful Dom.

< Message edited by Shylahgirl -- 11/14/2006 1:00:05 PM >


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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:06:32 PM   
Aileen68


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

This is a two-part question. Just something that has been floating around in my head for a while.
 
It’s just something I really would like some input on.
 
Part one: Why is it when first entering the BDSM lifestyle so many people, more often then not say they are dominant rather then submissive?
 
I’ve noticed this with many new submissives… there’s usually, from what I’ve seen, a huge leaning to wanting to be dominant at first before they get to know the lifestyle a little better.
 
Part two: Why is it that some new submissives that I’ve seen who come into the lifestyle wanting to be submissive usually have some kind of self esteem problem?
 
In my experience a lot of these people want to be hurt and humiliated because they think that they deserve no better and need to be punished. (I’ve just met a few people like this and have a hard time understanding why they’d think submission is a way of punishing your self)
 
This is just me being curious. I hope these questions don’t offend anyone.
 
Shylah


Let's see.  I'm submissive and have never thought of myself as dominant within this lifestyle.  I do, as do many submissives, have to take a more dominant role in every day life just to get things done.  That does not make me dominant though.
And I absolutley have no self esteem issues.  I'm quite strong and proud of myself.

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:06:47 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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GRrr replying again since the other thread got shut down AS I replied.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl
Part one: Why is it when first entering the BDSM lifestyle so many people, more often then not say they are dominant rather then submissive?

I haven't observed this at all so I can't comment on it.

quote:

Part two: Why is it that some new submissives that I’ve seen who come into the lifestyle wanting to be submissive usually have some kind of self esteem problem?

Because most of the people who come into the scene these days do so after their vanilla relationships have failed, they go online for an escape and discover Ds and think it will solve all their problems.

I don't think most people want to be hurt and humiliated and think they don't deserve better.  I think they have low self esteem and do not have the confidence to make the choices that will take them to a place of fulfillment.

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:08:37 PM   
mnottertail


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my thoughts are I haven't even touched a drop today and I see this thread twice, right together, obviously my little problem goes deeper than first imagined.

W.C. Fields


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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:09:28 PM   
Shylahgirl


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I've never had self esteem problems ether... that's why I don't understand the idea of submission it's self being a punishment.

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:12:23 PM   
Aileen68


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

I've never had self esteem problems ether... that's why I don't understand the idea of submission it's self being a punishment.

Maybe the people who view it as a punishment are generally a bit screwed up in terms of relationships.  Sounds like they don't quite know what it is that they want or are fighting what it is that they are..
edited to add...my submissiveness is part of my personality and not something that I have chosen.  It doesn't punish me.  It gives me a great sense of peace and satisfaction.

< Message edited by Aileen68 -- 11/14/2006 12:14:47 PM >

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:12:58 PM   
LaTigresse


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I have to say that I see people on both sides with self esteem issues. I have yet to meet someone that changed from dominant to submissive. Have read a few profiles that state such but, kinda like People magazine, I tend to take those statements with a dash of salt.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:13:55 PM   
whisperedsighs


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Maybe these seem to be more obvious then the new people who know what and who they are with a healthy self esteem?   It can go both ways in this lifestyle.  I have found many who start out trying to be submissive who are not. I think people just need to find out what they do and don't like in BDSM and then stick with it.  It is a process that takes time.


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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:20:12 PM   
mnottertail


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Oh JaySUS!!! Take me now!!! It is back again, doubled up;  but the old one is the new one,  and the new one the old one...................

I am getting bed spins.

Jesus H. leghumpin' Christ! Some tender hearted slave, please: throw me in a frame of reference; for christ sake!  Can't you see I'm perishing?

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:28:04 PM   
RiotGirl


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Um, the other thread is still up and i replied to it??  I'm confused.  Ron - i think you need to have that drop. 

i actually didnt enter the scene as a dominant - but i did enter with low self esteem.  Which didnt really encourage me to enter D/s.  I didnt enter it because i feel the need to be punished.  But i have been thinking about switching sides, because i think punishing others might help me greatly.

I entered the scene out of curiousity, to see what it was.  I left the scene because it too closely related to abuse in my mind at the time and i didnt want to go there.  I re entered the scene, because i got tired of wondering.  I left the scene because every Dom i ran into, i ran cirlces around and i got bored.  I re entered the scene, because i figured if i didnt see it through for once in my life - i'd always wonder if there was something to it. 

Upon all my entering's of the scene, never once did the thought of punishment enter my head.  Nor did bondage, toys, kink or the like.  Nor did emotional attachment, having a relationship, or allowing somebody in MY HEAD - ever cross my mind.  I didnt actually think that "my life" and D/s would co exist.  I always thought of it as two seperate things. 

imagine my suprise when not only my Dom got inside of my head, an emotional attachment occured, and this person actually "knew" and was apart of my life.  I had issues.  LOL 

yeaaaaaaaaaaaah  not at all what i expected


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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:33:23 PM   
LaTigresse


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Bartender!!!!!!!!!!!! A double!

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:39:33 PM   
RiotGirl


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Yes Ma'am - what'll it be? 

(double of scotch, whiskey, tequila)

Would you like that on the rocks?  Side of Lime/lemon?

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:44:16 PM   
LaTigresse


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Mmmmm, how about a nice aged bourbon, on the rocks, please.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 12:55:08 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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I have always identified with being submissive in my 12 years in the lifestyle. I do not have self esteem issues. I do not like pain because I feel I do not deserve any better. I just like pain. It is just like the vanilla world. All peoples join in,  even those with issues of some kind.

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 1:16:34 PM   
Morrigel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl
Part one: Why is it when first entering the BDSM lifestyle so many people, more often then not say they are dominant rather then submissive?

 
Unlike many other posters, I actually have seen this many times, so I know what you are talking about.  A lot of people, especially men, come into the scene as dominants, when they are newbies.  Some of them do discover that their true nature is actually submissive--others find that they are switches at heart.  (The reverse principle also sometimes happens to both men and women as well.)

So far as why people new to the scene might gravitate toward the dominant role rather than submissive, initially--I suspect this is a combination of fear and social training.  A lot of people feel a strong attraction to the passion plays of BDSM scenes without really assigning themselves a role.  Given this initial confusion, the dominant role is perceived, consciously or subconsciously, as "safer".  Also, the personality traits and qualities we associate with dominance in the western world are often admired or considered desirable, especially in a man--"strong", "self-reliant", "confident", "in control" are all considered Good Things to Be by society.  Whereas the personality traits we stereotypically associated with submissive personalities are much less valued, especially in America--desperately as we need to see more of these virtues in public life, especially international relations!

In any case, I suspect that with a little experience, many players quickly come to see that some of the strongest, wisest, most confident and "in control" people in BDSM are actually submissives who have come to fully own and enjoy their submissive tendencies.  And with a little experimentation, people tend to find the things that work for them and make them feel right, even if initially they are a little tense or defensive.  Almost every experienced dominant I know has tried at least tentatively to explore his or her submissive side, even if only out of curiosity about "how the other half lives".  I certainly couldn't resist the opportunity to be tied up at least once, just to see what I was missing!  How could I resist when the subbies were having such fun! 
 
quote:

Part two: Why is it that some new submissives that I’ve seen who come into the lifestyle wanting to be submissive usually have some kind of self esteem problem?

 
A lot of hurt people in the world, hon.  I read somewhere in the 1980's that one in ten women even in North America has experienced some sort of sexual assault by the age of 21.  I can't speak for men, but I'm sure there are a lot of male survivors of assault or child abuse among us, on both sides of the whip.  Especially if "child abuse" is defined very loosely, as in "any household where corporal punishment was present", etc..

The therapeutic potential of BDSM in healing the victims of deep psychological trauma is a subject that has barely been scratched by neurological science.  I have seen it do amazing things for men and women who used it as a means of "reprogramming" their emotional and physical responses to certain stimuli.  Many of them end up being much higher functioning and achieving much higher rates of personal and emotional resiliency.  It really seems to help to take positive control of any masochistic tendencies that might have resulted from past abuse, rather than seeking out an endless series of new abusers.

BDSM can be a powerful tool in the hands of a compassionate, ethical dominant.  I would be willing to bet that there are many submissives here who could tell you how far they have come from a personally painful history, with the love of a good dom--if they cared to share those experiences with strangers.

--M

< Message edited by Morrigel -- 11/14/2006 1:18:16 PM >

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 1:23:39 PM   
Shylahgirl


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You have a very good point in that BDSM can be a powerfuly theraputic tool, when it's used by someone who is loving and ethical.
 
But from what I've seen is that when some  people with low self esteem come into BDSM, some not all, they tend to gravatate to those who are not ethical or loving or they activly seek it out and they stay there. That is the main thing I don't understand.
 
Shylah

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 1:28:25 PM   
RiotGirl


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hmmm.. would that be Four roses bourbon, Eagle rare, Old Rip Van Winkle, Elijah Craig Kentucky, Pappy van winkle 20 yr, Woodward, Blanton, Buffalo Trace, Bookers, 1972, or just Kentucky bourbon?  OR something else i have yet to run across?  <grins>

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 1:29:03 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel
BDSM can be a powerful tool in the hands of a compassionate, ethical dominant.  I would be willing to bet that there are many submissives here who could tell you how far they have come from a personally painful history, with the love of a good dom--if they cared to share those experiences with strangers.

--M

I only wish more doms would stop letting their ego prevent their slaves from giving them the same benefits.

It's not "bdsm" which is the catalyst, it's life, it's forming a solid and healthy connection with someone who actually IS secure and understanding.  We just happen to use bdsm because that's our conduit.

_____________________________

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 1:29:43 PM   
Morrigel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl
But from what I've seen is that when some  people with low self esteem come into BDSM, some not all, they tend to gravatate to those who are not ethical or loving or they activly seek it out and they stay there. That is the main thing I don't understand.


The instinct of most people, but especially an abused person, is to seek familiar patterns in their personal relationships.

Sadly, sometimes the familiar = not good. 

--M


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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 1:30:57 PM   
toservez


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Part one: First my observation is somewhat opposite as I have found that most that I have seen switch roles have been from submissive to dominant.

Part two:

Self esteem issues are prevelant everywhere in all types of relationships. I also think that the community on the whole tends to focus on a submissives that have self esteem issues when there are plenty of dominants that have the issue as well. People come into this life and some stay in and flourish and some quickly get back out and some in between. I think this life can draw people with self esteem issues who are looking for that magic pill that will make them happy. Personally I do not think people with self esteem issues last to long in the life unless they find someone with similar issues on the opposite end and I do not know if that makes them happy or not.

I really do not think when submissive have self esteem issues they are looing to get beat or humiliated but are looking toward others to take control of their life because they cannot and the physical stuff is just a way for them to know the other person is accepting of them because they feel inferior. There are also plenty of dominants that walk into this life with self esteem problems and are just looking for some hero worship and wanting to see someone bend over backwards and endure things just to stroke their self esteem.

I will admit that many times when I have talked to another person in the life I do sometimes try to figure out if they have esteem issues. I am purely guessing that we have a higher percentage then vanilla people but I really believe that the percentage is fairly close though. It is just that because of the nature of the life it tends to bring out this issue quicker and more noticebly.



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I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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