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RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/16/2006 12:32:35 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PALittleGirl

I've been seeing a therapist for many years now but I've only just starting talking about my involvment with BDSM and the lifestyle. He's completely clueless about all of it and I really don't want to spend my 50 minute hour explaining the "code" to him. Is there a book I could get him that sort of lays it all out and is fairly easy to read?

Thanks.


I like the book  "Different Loving:  The World of Sexual Dominance and Submission" by William Brame and Gloria Brame.











(in reply to PALittleGirl)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/16/2006 12:52:49 PM   
CrazyC


Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		I have the DSM-IV-TR and the quote is correct word for word for sexual masochism. The added point would be for sexual Sadism. It says it becomes an issue when, "The person has acted on these sexual urges with a nonconsenting person, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty." Voyeurism and exhibitionism when acted on is a disfunction. Those two are the only ones i can find where acting on them would be cause for a dr to feel there is something wrong.

_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

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RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/16/2006 1:17:12 PM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Crazy, that's nice to know.  i haven't seen a more recent addition of the DSM, so i was unaware that the distinction has now been made that the behavior has to cause marked distress.  

That's interesting.  five years ago, i most certainly had marked distress about my masochistic and submissive desires and  iwasn't even acting on them at the time.  So, who knows.  Even the distress can't necessarly be an indication f a problem, particularly when that distress is about one's self acceptance.

Additionally, i would think that someone who acts out sadistically against another without that person's consent would be considered more of a sociopath than having a sexual deviancy.  

(in reply to CrazyC)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/16/2006 2:36:51 PM   
Adelphus


Posts: 87
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hmm...no one posted this title! This is the ultimate in teaching vanilla-types BDSM without freaking them out.
http://www.amazon.com/When-Someone-You-Love-Kinky/dp/1890159239
I actually had to educate my therapist with a book, turned out great.;-) But then again, my therapist has always been awesome.
Any of you in the NJ area, our local dungeon is having a kink-aware therapist talk at this Saturday's party. Here's a link:
http://www.dfp.com/main.html

(in reply to darksdesire)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/16/2006 3:08:55 PM   
CrazyC


Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darksdesire

That's interesting.  five years ago, i most certainly had marked distress about my masochistic and submissive desires and  iwasn't even acting on them at the time.  So, who knows.  Even the distress can't necessarly be an indication f a problem, particularly when that distress is about one's self acceptance.

Additionally, i would think that someone who acts out sadistically against another without that person's consent would be considered more of a sociopath than having a sexual deviancy.  


Yea i thought is was interesting about the physical distress, since occationally there will be a bruise or two. That is why i mentioned it. It seemed like something we should all know befroe going to a dr for an exam or anywhere for that matter where there might be concern. I volunteer at a rape crisis/ domestic abuse center, and i would have to be careful if i had any sign of physical distress.

_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/16/2006 3:31:35 PM   
DigitBox


Posts: 154
Joined: 3/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PALittleGirl

I've been seeing a therapist for many years now but I've only just starting talking about my involvment with BDSM and the lifestyle. He's completely clueless about all of it and I really don't want to spend my 50 minute hour explaining the "code" to him. Is there a book I could get him that sort of lays it all out and is fairly easy to read?

Thanks.


I always take the time and explain it to the therapist.

If they are non-judgemental then I stick with them, if they are all into passing judgement on me for being the way I am like it's some big problem I have to get away from then I avoid them.


(in reply to PALittleGirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/16/2006 3:37:43 PM   
circe67


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline 		Wow
Glad i'm not the only one.
I guess what I learned is that a degree doesn't make one all-knowing or neccessarily capable of handling every situation
Sadly there are some lousey therapists out there. and a lot of folk actually get into the field because of their own issues.
the one i have now is awesum. when i told her i was interested in this she said be "Be careful psychopaths can be charming"  I just grinned and said "i know" we both laughed (no i'm not a psychopath)
Basically she listens is nonjudgemental and gives the best information she can.
In return  I am open and honest with her and discuss everything as well as being compliant once i understand risks/benefits of treatment 
.
She is one of those rare individuals who does not impose their belief on others
.
If i run into someone who can benefit i refer to her or ask her who she thinks is good
Hopefully in some way that helps others as well, not only by adding to knowledge in general but by keeping my friends safe from lousey practicioners

She's one of those people i start to count as people i'm lucky to know when i start getting bummed about stupid stuff

OMG just gotta add this
it seems like nothing but i was in a crappy mood on the way to work and i just made this CONCIOUS DECISION to think about great people i knew
I though oh right maybe two
I had gotten through the traffic and to work before i was done.
Just thought that was kinda cool
Sorry if off topic

(in reply to CrazyC)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/16/2006 5:50:36 PM   
HollyS


Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DigitBox

I always take the time and explain it to the therapist.

If they are non-judgemental then I stick with them, if they are all into passing judgement on me for being the way I am like it's some big problem I have to get away from then I avoid them. 


What exactly is "it" that you explain? 

I'm not sure how many therapists you've been to or how many you've educated, but I would advise people to be VERY careful taking this road.  If your therapist is open-minded and non-judgemental regarding BDSM practices, then there's no problem.  If they aren't, you could have a huge problem on your hands.

There's a very large power differential between a client and his or her therapist.  You're telling all of your intimate details to someone (who isn't telling you any of theirs)  who is paid to help you recognize all sorts of patterns in your life.  In doing so, it's likely that you're not going to like everything you hear - that's part of the work of therapy.  A therapist who believes BDSM to be pathological or perverted may see everything you do through the lens of D/s or S/m. And why not? Many people here insist that BDSM is their whole life and the sum of their entire being, so it's a fair perspective (even if the role the therapist assigns bdsm as a pathology isn't). 

Also, if you have children a well-meaning therapist could place a call to DCFS if they feel that such an environment is unsuitable for kids.  If you're in a custody battle, undergo court-ordered psychological testing and reveal BDSM activity, it can be used against you by your ex's attorney.  Both of these scenarios have happened many times all over the country, usually with outcomes that don't look kindly on the kinky parent(s). 

It's critical to be as aware as possible of your therapist's biases.  While I absolutely encourage people to be honest with their therapist (otherwise therapy will get you nowhere), you must be smart about revealing BDSM activity.  Think long and hard before deciding to "educate" -- stick to the facts of your relationship and reveal what is pertinent.  Is it necessary to tell your therapist that you enjoy being spanked?  Really necessary? Can you discuss the kind of relationship you have without using loaded language like "slave" or "Master" or "Daddy"?   What's the motivation in "teaching" your therapist something rather than using your hour to work on the issues that brought you to therapy in the first place?  Food for thought...

Be smart.  Be careful.  Be safe.

~Holly

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/16/2006 6:27:27 PM   
sultryvoice


Posts: 368
Joined: 3/31/2004
Status: offline 		I suppose I'm lucky in that my psychologist is kink friendly. She really does understand the dynamic and listens intently to what I have to say. She is the best I have had..Now, my psychiatrist has no clue. But I only go to him for meds and only in there to see him for about 15 min. I don't see that he needs to know since we don't delve into everything in my life. But, I do tell EVERYTHING to my psychologist..

Sultry


_____________________________

Blessed are the cracked,
For it is they who let in the light.


www.themarkbycpi.com

(in reply to HollyS)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/16/2006 10:34:34 PM   
mammabearpa


Posts: 2
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline 		I just started seeing a therapist myself. She was open to be being Bi, having a live-in SO and also seeinga  couple (so I guess she is Poly friendly). I just am not sure HOW to tell her about my BDSM interests.

(in reply to PALittleGirl)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/17/2006 2:23:26 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		greetings candle
 
i too work better with men i do not like women therapist at all i find i must have a white male and i must ask question to know his trust in me and how i can trust him, i ask question about what he feel about everything. i had the next theripat i was so upset i take a strong pain medicine and he read that i stole a botttle of this without proof i would not see him again they told me that i need to see him or i will see no one, my other therapist left he retired so i have not seen one this man have issues and i felt them right away i was angry and sad that is thogut i stole meds from the hostipal and it turn out they had taken a bottle out and put it back. but i still like to have a male they are more open learning i am a domme and do not judge me. men are just better to me i did not read what micheal of ga wrote but wow i like his name
 
take care all
mons

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/17/2006 7:47:21 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I had a therapist for two years and she knew nothing about M/s or bdsm etc.... until I explained my relationship etc. I didn't have to *educate* her, she GOT educated just through our usual interaction. Of course, that only meant that she knew ME and my relationship. She has access to the internet and the ability to find out about things she doesn't have expertise with.........I'd expect a good therapist to do that.

agirl







That is exactly what a good therapist does.

Unless you are in therapy for a specific BDSM issue, your BDSM interests and relationships are really just building on human interests and relationships.

We'd all like to think we aren't "normal" and "vanilla" but in the end our desires, needs, and relationships are really as "normal" or "vanilla" as everyone else.

I'll refer folks to writing by Guy Baldwin one of the best and longest operating kinky mental health professionals. Even among his kinky clients, even his 24/7 ones, he write constantly that the issues revolve around things like communication, honesty, dealing with the past, self-awareness, in short "normal/vanilla" issues.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/17/2006 8:45:00 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I agree with HollyS's basic point.  Just because participating in bd/sm and related activities is no longer diagnosable as a disorder, doesn't mean it can't be treated as symptomatic of other disorders and admitting to particaption in bd/sm won't create suspicion and encourage an increased level of theraputic surveillance. 

When I sought out a counselor, I was fortunate to find one who makes the analysis of power relationships the center of her practice.  She's not medically trained, doesn't diagnose or prescribe medication, and isn't trying to "fix me" but is committed to a form of peer counseling that was more common in the 1970's.  She takes a very spiritual feminist approach to things and is extremely attuned to class and ethnic/racial issues, does a lot of work with people who have been sexually abused, and is very understanding of alternative sexualities. 

I have never felt the need to do much education other than explain my own perspective on things, and we work with that.  Bd/sm has only come up a couple of times and she seems to know enough about it to hold up her end of the conversation, and because she centers power dynamics, its not hard for her to understand what happens in a productive exchange.

As I think about it, as someone who feels the need for counseling, I'm not sure I want to be in a position of educating a counselor or therapist.  I've read several books on it, and they were helpful when I was a new, but didn't come close to capturing the complexity of the community, or everything that comes under the umbrella of "bd/sm."

I'm curious if anyone knows of a reference specifically for therapists and counselors that could be of help.

(in reply to HollyS)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/17/2006 9:32:29 AM   
SweetEscravo


Posts: 193
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline 		Back when I was seeing a therapist I mentioned my kinky side to her, and aside from a nod, she really didn't make a big deal out of it.  She allowed me to bring it up whenever I needed to, but she never treated it as something being wrong with me. 

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/17/2006 2:39:10 PM   
HollyS


Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mammabearpa

I just started seeing a therapist myself. She was open to be being Bi, having a live-in SO and also seeinga  couple (so I guess she is Poly friendly). I just am not sure HOW to tell her about my BDSM interests.


Be careful - just because someone is open minded enough to accept bisexuality, having a live-in SO and also seeing others, DOES NOT mean that the person is "Poly friendly."  They may, in fact, be adamant about serial monogomy or believe that as long as you're seeing multiple people, you're not truly committing to any of them.  They may believe "insert any number of mistaken-but-frighteningly-common misconceptions about polyamorous relationships here."

Tammyjo hit it right on the head and was much clearer than I was  (thank you Tammy!).  Most bdsm issues are really relationship issues -- kink can be a stumbling block for those who aren't already knowledgable about the l/s and in the end, irrelevent to the problem at hand unless it's a specific bdsm issue.

Being "kink-aware" is not the same as being "kink-friendly" and certainly not the same as being personally kinky.  Sometimes people make the mistake of thinking that since their therapist hasn't condemned something they've said or questioned some aspect of their relationship, that means that the therapist "approves."  Who knows - your therapist may actually be aware of poly issues and sensitive enough to discuss how some of those issues are impacting your life.  But don't assume.

*steps off soapbox*

~Holly

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I wish my lawn were emo, so it would cut itself.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/17/2006 3:01:27 PM   
kinkiminx


Posts: 73
Joined: 10/5/2005
From: Brighton, Sussex, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PALittleGirl

I've been seeing a therapist for many years now but I've only just starting talking about my involvment with BDSM and the lifestyle. He's completely clueless about all of it and I really don't want to spend my 50 minute hour explaining the "code" to him. Is there a book I could get him that sort of lays it all out and is fairly easy to read?

Thanks.


Sorry to say I've not yet managed to get through all the books there are out there!
 
The problem is though, that if you don't explain it yourself, there won't be anyone there to answer your therapist's immediate questions about the lifestyle, and their opinion might be more likely to be shaped by first reactions than the weighed discourse they would have to think over if you explained it in person.
 
Depending on what sort of person your therapist is and what sort of things they've encountered in their life so far, you might find that they are very accommodating to all sorts of different sexualities and lifestyles, or you might find they go straight to their manual and pathologise it. (I'm guessing you've decided they're approachable and have clearly agreed to talk about it though!)
 
I'm not the best person to suggest a book, but if you provide a one it would be a good idea to back it up with more conversation on the subject which will still take up some time...
 
I've read "Screw the Roses Send me the Thorns" as suggested by Emperor1956 and its not a bad choice, but isn't entirely non-judgemental; it does make some assumptions and as it's written with opinions and advice and not just a glossary that would be expected!
 
Still its certainly better than the dreaded DSM manual the average therapist might have at hand!
 
Good Luck! :)

(in reply to PALittleGirl)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/17/2006 11:56:11 PM   
patina


Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: no
Status: offline 		I used to see a therapists first one was a man he was a high and might SOB he would not have approved of this lifestyle and would of put me down for it.  The second was a woman she was O.K. I think she would of been appalled and shocked at it.  I went to college to get my degree in Social Services  but before I could finish (I lacked 3 quarters) I was awarded my Disability and had to quit.   

As far as learning about this lifestyle in college we had one class that was called Abnormal Psy. In that class we covered the BDSM in one chapter.  That is all they taught at least in the college I attended and the book we used had no idea of the real lifestyle it only covered the SM part of it. It was more interested in the kinky part of the kifestyle.  I have read the Screw the Roses book it is good and the guy has a good wit about his writing. He does give a good cover of the SS and C.  He covers the different kinds of kinks, clamps, bondage, waxing, fetishes, diff. tortures, the diff between a sub--Dom-switch--and so forth but does not cover Daddy Dom at all.  He goes over the safety a lot, the difference between wanna be and what is considered a true Dom. 

Patina




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a diamond in the rough

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/22/2006 5:46:48 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		a quick recap...well that is really hard ...i have been at this thing for over 8 years and i could not say that i really understand it or could explain it.
 
but i do know that going to a therapist is most productive when you go not just to hear yourself talk, but to gather skill sets you might be lacking.
 
going to a therapist with out a real tangible plan of what you wish to accomplish and what skills you hope to gain is as pointless as wanting to go to some place in india, that you dream of going but not having a map.
 
the skill sets that we use in D/s relationships are with the exception of punishments, not really any different then vanillia.....communication, personal responsibility, compromise, keeping things new, alive and fresh, intimacy, acceptance, honesty and integrity.
 
 





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This is him

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(in reply to patina)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/22/2006 6:11:54 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72

I have learned that alot of therapists assume you have issues because of your involvement in the lifestyle ..they don't nor do they want to understand.

And some therapists are dead on correct with that assumption.  Look around us on the forums and see the passive-aggressive nonsense, hate-filled rhetoric and other neurotic, maniacal and anti-social behaviors.  I'm not saying it's any more than it is on a non-D/s board....but it's a convenient excuse for a therapist who believes in elimination treatment.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Talking to a therapist - 11/22/2006 6:31:50 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PALittleGirl
I've been seeing him for over 3 years, so he knows my individual pathology pretty well.


This is the part of your post that gave me a moment's pause. Is the "lifestyle" something new to you or is this something that you have not felt comfortable enough to disclose to him in all this time? Three years is a long time and I am left to wonder how much trust you have developed in him in that time if you did not feel comfortable enough to discuss this before now. I believe that "leaving out" such a large part of who you are shortchanges the possible outcome or benefit of such an arrangement.


< Message edited by mistoferin -- 11/22/2006 6:32:17 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to PALittleGirl)
Profile   Post #: 60
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