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How do you deal with angst? - 11/15/2006 8:10:15 PM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		I'm probably more melodramatic than most, and I wish I didn't make silly things a big deal, but when I read the threads I just have to wonder--don't y'all ever freak out like I do?  Where do you put your angst?  What happens during your dark nights of the soul?  Do you doubt?  Fear?  Rebel? Or do you all just know it will work out all right?  Or do you all have a kinky friend who doesn't know your partner, so you can tell them your fears?

I know someone will tell me I should put it all on my Dom, but that just isn't the way I work.  I have to figure out what my concerns are and be able to articulate them well, and I have to figure out how big a deal something is.  For me, it starts off like an itch, and I have to scratch it for a while before I know what is causing the itch, and I don't really want to put him through my psychobabble before I know where it is going.  He knows that and is fine with that as long as I bring anything big to him when I'm ready.  I'm melodramatic enough, it wouldn't even be fair to bring every fear and worry to him.  Especially because he takes such good care of my worries when I do bring something to him.

But I can't bring them to my friends because most of my friends are vanilla and they all know him.  (One of my friends who I was trying to talk to, who knows I'm "not vanilla" said "I'll support you whatever you decide, unless he hits you or anything...")  It is odd, but I also prefer the false anonymity of the internet to feeling like I'm speaking badly of him to people who know him.  I still live in my own fake belief that we can't be tracked through this thing.  (And I'm not wanting to trash him--it is just that without someone to talk to, stupid little things end up becoming a big deal in my mind because there isn't anyone I feel like I can talk to, and let's be honest, Dr. Phil isn't particularly helpful in our world.  I don't know what is and isn't always appropriate.  I had a bruise that lasted almost 2 weeks and only knew that was really wrong because he freaked out! ; )  Part of me knows that ventilating angst is not what the forums are for, but I have to wonder--where do you all go with your angst?
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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/15/2006 8:14:04 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline 		Hmmm, sometimes I bring them up with Master; the times I don't, he can tell that something is bothering me anyway and simply tells me to tell him. Sometimes I just write it all down in my journal ( Master reads it anyway ). If I write something that he feels needs to be discussed right away, then we do, otherwise he lets me work it out.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to ladychatterley)
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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/15/2006 8:24:19 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		I do this as well. When I get fussy I tend to talk to my friends first. I'm lucky enough to have some lifestyle friends, though not all that many. I'm also lucky in that I have friends who aren't lifestyle but understand (as much as they can at any rate). Since you don't have the option, I would suggest talking with your dominant and start keeping a journal that is private and just for you. Just knowing that your dominant will read it can change how you write things and that might not be as helpful to you. Perhaps once you have worked something out you show him the journal, or if you feel you can't work it out any more. I personally use livejournal and lock the posts so only I can see them.

Depending on how bad things are  you always might want to look into a kink-friendly therapist. I used to see one on a weekly basis regardless of how I was feeling. It's very nice to able to talk to somebody about anything and not have to worry about what they will think of you. I've found that sometimes just talking the problem out to myself helps more then I ever thought it would.

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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/15/2006 8:30:17 PM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		I had a therapist (supposedly Kink friendly--referred by one who was on KAP that my insurance didn't cover--but the shrink said he thought the guy I was seeing at the time was trying to control me!  Wow, imagine that, I put an ad seeking 'surrender' and 'submission' and the guy has the nerve to control me--who'da thunk!)  Anyway, I need to find a shrink, but none of the KAP people seem to take my insurance.  (I've only gone through about a third of them, maybe one will....)
I agree with you on him reading the journal changing what I'd write, but I'm new enough to all this that I just wish I had a group of friends, or 2 or 3 friends who understood....

But it is good to know I'm not the only one with angst.  Everyone else seems so perfect, and I'm just not....


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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/15/2006 8:33:11 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

But it is good to know I'm not the only one with angst.  Everyone else seems so perfect, and I'm just not....

LOL hun, believe me, we are definitly not perfect.

But let's keep that a secret ok

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to ladychatterley)
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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/15/2006 8:37:17 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		I have seasonal depression plus suffer from occasional panic attacks and anxiety. I'm lovingly (I think) refered to as the Jewish grandmother amongst by friends for all the worrying I do about them and everything in my life. Particularly by the Jewish ones. Some of may be more experienced but trust me, no one here is perfect.

If you like you can always message me. I'm in the midst of finals so I'm falling behind on my communication for now, but it might be nice just to have someone who will listen. I would really advise the journal though, since that is something where you are talking to yourself.

As for your therapist, perhaps you should explain "He isn't trying to control me, he is controlling me and I happen to like it." Then go on to explain that it's control with consent and advise him to read some literature on the subject, though I don't know any off books off-hand to have him read. Maybe "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns"? I haven't read it but I think it goes into the dynamic of consent. Not sure though. Having him understand will be useful and if he can't understand then at least you can switch and try to put your money to better use!

(in reply to ladychatterley)
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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/15/2006 8:40:06 PM   
RUpainsmith


Posts: 42
Joined: 11/13/2006
Status: offline 		It's important not to rely solely on a Dom for emotional stability; as in the vanilla world, a supportive network will always help you to absorb shocks better than putting all your emotional eggs in one basket.  Be wary of anyone who tells you to forsake friends and family to be alone in life with no one But a Dom.  If he is as self-assured and confident as one would hope, and as loving, he will not try to separate you from your friends and family.

(in reply to Kalira)
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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/15/2006 8:40:49 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Hahaha my partner is Jewish, we make jokes constantly about the Jewish condition of suffering.

I'd like a specific example of your "angstiness"?  Sometimes angst is just angst and goes away with time, sometimes you're just being silly, sometimes you really just don't know how to process it, and sometimes it's a sign of a deeper issue.  Hard to say without specifics.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/15/2006 9:27:27 PM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		He would never ask me to forsake friends or family--if anything he would push me to be more open with them.  That is all me, not him.  But I'm not out in the vanilla world.

Half my angst is silly, even to me, and some of it is serious, but only serious to me--most people would think it was silly.  And then there are things that some people would say 'what? are you nuts?'  But I'm not some people.  And when communication works so darn well, when he is so supportive is such fundamental ways, when he knows all my secrets and loves in spite (or because?) of them, when I don't have to pretend to be anything at all, just me is just fine, when he is so dman supportive of me (much more than I am of him) then I make concessions (mostly vanilla concessions) that I wouldn't expect to ever make. 

But actually that last one is the source of much angst.  I can't be supportive of him the way he is of me because what he wants support in goes against some of my attitudes.  It is all I can do to not try and nag to stop him (and it is his dealings with the world, not with me--he has never asked me to surrender my values); I can't support him the way he does me.  For example, it is all I can do to not nag him about smoking.  I just can't be supportive of that.  I know he will quit if/when it is right for him, but I'm also aware that I really, really want him to quit.  Part of me is counting on his words about quitting to happen at some point.  Not really a good submissive, and yet that's where I am honestly.  Can one really be a submissive if one doesn't respect everything about one's master?  Can anyone really, honestly respect EVERYTHING about ANYONE?  Everyone's different, so how on earth could I think that I'd fine someone who matched up to my rather arbitrary definition of perfect?  But then, can i really submit when I want him to change? 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/15/2006 11:40:56 PM   
SamKeithsslave


Posts: 322
Joined: 11/7/2006
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ladychatterley
I had a therapist (supposedly Kink friendly--referred by one who was on KAP that my insurance didn't cover--but the shrink said he thought the guy I was seeing at the time was trying to control me!  Wow, imagine that, I put an ad seeking 'surrender' and 'submission' and the guy has the nerve to control me--who'da thunk!)  Anyway, I need to find a shrink, but none of the KAP people seem to take my insurance.  (I've only gone through about a third of them, maybe one will....)


LOL, you got to love the shrinks who worry you are "being controlled" - they dont get it. Its for this reason I didnt tell my shrink about my lifestyle choice, ie the dom/sub and swinging thing, cos he would have said similar. I was, however, extremely lucky to find a pyschologist whose attitude to my lifestyle has been "as long as you are happy and not being hurt or hurting others I see no problem with it".
I wish you luck with the search.

_____________________________

Happiness does not find us, we must go out and find it for ourselves.

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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/16/2006 1:48:58 AM   
onlythewindknows


Posts: 259
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline 		ladychatterley, i would strongly suggest writing (journaling, or even story writing) as much as possible - if only for yourself. it can really help with those "free-floating uncertainties."

< Message edited by onlythewindknows -- 11/16/2006 1:50:41 AM >

_____________________________

As Darth once said: "you are beaten. It is useless to resist."

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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/16/2006 2:49:07 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		ladychatterly...you're human.  That's all.  Submissive does NOT mean robotic.  I have to agree with you.  I certainly cannot be 100% totally in agreement with anyone.  Mostly I just keep it to myself tho.  Take long walks, do something physical.  Yeah, you can try journaling and it might work, but I don't think it would for me.  Acceptance...of yourself and him.  That's what would work for me. 

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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/16/2006 7:45:55 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ladychatterley
Not really a good submissive, and yet that's where I am honestly.  Can one really be a submissive if one doesn't respect everything about one's master?  Can anyone really, honestly respect EVERYTHING about ANYONE?  Everyone's different, so how on earth could I think that I'd fine someone who matched up to my rather arbitrary definition of perfect?  But then, can i really submit when I want him to change? 


Remember that whole thread on acceptance?  If not, you should read it.

You don't have to respect everything about someone- but you do have to respect that it IS part of them and accept it as something in your life.  This seems to be what you're having trouble with.

The whole "angst about being a good sub" and guilt about "not being as supportive" is really just distraction from that. 

What you need to work on is accepting those things that seem to go against your values.  Not grudgingly, but lovingly.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ladychatterley)
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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/16/2006 9:51:52 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		It doesn't really matter whether *other people* may think the things you have angst over are silly;  if it's affecting you, it matters.

Similarly, I like to be able to articulate what's bothering me and it can be horribly frustrating to *not quite know* ........I have to add that waffling a bit to my Master tends to shorten the process considerably. If I say * I feel yukky and I don't know why* he's really rather good at winkling out what MAY be bothering me, with questions.

Mostly........I just suffer ...and write poetry.......and sometimes just think .* Oh fuck it* and switch off entirely for a while and do something terribly hedonistic.......lol

I can't support my Master in the way he supports me, either. I am not equipped to do that, nor is it required. He didn't take ownership of me because of what I could do for him( his words). He can do quite nicely all by himself.

I wish you well.

agirl





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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/16/2006 11:08:22 AM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladychatterley
Not really a good submissive, and yet that's where I am honestly.  Can one really be a submissive if one doesn't respect everything about one's master?  Can anyone really, honestly respect EVERYTHING about ANYONE?  Everyone's different, so how on earth could I think that I'd fine someone who matched up to my rather arbitrary definition of perfect?  But then, can i really submit when I want him to change? 


Remember that whole thread on acceptance?  If not, you should read it.

You don't have to respect everything about someone- but you do have to respect that it IS part of them and accept it as something in your life.  This seems to be what you're having trouble with.

The whole "angst about being a good sub" and guilt about "not being as supportive" is really just distraction from that. 

What you need to work on is accepting those things that seem to go against your values.  Not grudgingly, but lovingly.


Is it titled "Acceptance" LA?  I need to read that one.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/16/2006 1:19:09 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		When I feel things piling up, I try to stop and take a deep breath and ask myself  "What's really happening here?"  I try to see the situation for what it really is, what the possible solutions might be, and most importantly, what is the worst thing that's going to happen?

For example:  I"m taking a college class right now. Two projects are due, one is late (but I have leeway there since it's independent study) and the other due at the end of the week  I'm feeling overwhelmed!!!!

Okay.  Breath.  Each project will theoretically only take me approx. 2 hours to complete.  So that's only 4 hours time, total.  I only need to spend 2 hours a night on two separate nights.  I have five other nights with no plans. I can do one project tonite. After that, I'm caught up.I can do the other project another night this week.  I'm not going to flunk the class.  I feel better now.       .........or something like that.

Don't fall into the trap of "horrible-izing".  That's thinking like.  "I have two projects due!  If I don't get them done this week, the teacher is going to be so pissed at me.  He'll probably flunk me.  I can just picture the big red F's on all my papers, and he thinks I'm really stupid.  Everybody thinks I'm stupid.  I'm so stupid.  I can't flunk out, if I do, I'll never get my degree.    If I don't get my degree, I'll never get a decent job, and I'll be driving that piece of shit in the driveway the rest of my life and I'll be driving down the highway and the motor will blow up and I'll burn to death"   and so on.  Horrible-izing.  It can cause an immense amount of angst.

Try to see a situation for what it really is, not for what it might be or might become.  Stick with what IS.



_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/16/2006 1:38:44 PM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Ladychatterly,
i think you need others to talk with, others in the lifetyle.  i've made a few very close friends via online, and frankly, i don't know what i'd do without them.  i could never discuss my D/s relationship with my vanilla friends or family, and i also dont' want to put everything on my Master.  While he's always been patient and supportive and an excellent listener, i so much need my submissive girlfriends in order to help me see myself more clearly. 

i don't know how far along you are in your journey in D/s or with your Master.  i do know that it took me nearly a full two years of ups and downs, of periods of angst and confusion before i was able to settle in, and in the first six months, i remember longing for a submissive mentor who could help me understand what i was going through.  For me there has never been a relationship so intense, so deep, so intimate as the one i have with my Master, and that is bound to bring up all kinds of fears.  D/s relationships generally require a level of trust and intimacy that often isn't available in vanilla relationships (at least never available in my vanilla relationships) and it is hard and scary and emotional, especially if you've never gone so deep with someone before. 

i don't know what your specific angst is about, and i do want to be careful about not projecting my own experience onto you.   You do need an outlet, other female submissives to talk with.  i also keep a journal, and my Master reads this, and that has been one of the most helpful tools in coming to understand my own process.  Feel free to email me should you like to have another submissive to talk with.  

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/16/2006 2:44:30 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_670752/mpage_1/key_alanis/tm.htm#670761
Acceptance

Yup!  Here it is.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/16/2006 3:07:06 PM   
BORAT


Posts: 37
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline 		I go express mule to our great capital, Astana.  They has many doctor that can cure this condition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladychatterley

where do you all go with your angst?

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RE: How do you deal with angst? - 11/16/2006 4:07:12 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

http://www.collarchat.com/m_670752/mpage_1/key_alanis/tm.htm#670761
Acceptance

Yup!  Here it is.


Thank you kindly!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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