A hunting story/Rant (Full Version)

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mistoferin -> A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 3:55:04 AM)

Yesterday was Opening Day here...one of the biggest days of the year! We couldn't have asked for better weather...except for maybe some snow on the ground. I was in the woods by 6:30 and comfortably settled in by dawn. It was a great day. I watched the fattest fox squirrel I ever saw munch on corn for two hours straight. A couple of gray squirrels eventually showed up to spoil his morning and watching them chase each other around was pretty comical. A fox came quite close to my blind. The woods were alive with activity.

All in all I saw a total of 9 deer. Most of them were small does and a yearling buck. Couple of big does accompanied by fawns (this year's deer). And one monster 8 point....which brings me to my story.

It was about 4 in the afternoon. A small doe came through...followed by this big, bad boy! He was walking straight for me! The wind was at my face so it was just a matter of patience and keeping still. I took aim and waited. He turned broadside to me....but behind a tree. I waited. Just one more half a step! I put my finger to the trigger and "Blam!". Oh my God, what just happened? Did I accidently shoot? Then again "Blam!". I watched as the deer went bounding through the woods. "Blam!", "Blam!", "Blam!", followed it as it went. Nope, wasn't me....I didn't shoot....which brings me to my rant....

Here was this deer in my sights....less than 20 yrds from me and except for one tree(which in one more half step would not have been an issue).....but it wasn't me who got the shot....it was someone else.....over 100 yards away shooting through dense woods! I could not frigging believe it.

I had to find out what they were thinking. Aha...they saw it moving through with their high powered scope that was mounted on their low power shotgun. Couldn't tell if it had horns or not...but knew it was big. Couldn't get a good shot on it....but thought if they could just wound it bad enough...

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Why folks??? Why would anyone take a shot at something that they had very little chance of hitting? Why would anyone take shots at a deer that is running full tilt through dense woods? Twice that day the same person unloaded their gun on running deer. 10 shots at two deer and they went home with no deer. It happens all the time....you're out there in the woods and you can hear the shots follow their progress as they run. Maybe they are using different "tree penetrating" ammo?

They questioned me...."Why didn't you shoot it?". My reply....."Because I won't take a shot unless I'm certain it has the best potential to be fatal, I'm not into injuring deer". In another half a second that deer would have most likely been down....not running through the woods possibly injured.




missturbation -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 4:10:28 AM)

Why folks??? Why would anyone take a shot at something that they had very little chance of hitting? Why would anyone take shots at a deer that is running full tilt through dense woods?

Why would anyone shoot such a beautiful deer at all?
Its cruel and barbaric and i'm glad neither of you got the shot.



mistoferin -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 4:19:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Why would anyone shoot such a beautiful deer at all?
Its cruel and barbaric and i'm glad neither of you got the shot.


Maybe because some of us love the beautiful deer enough to understand that their conservation is vital....and hunting is a vital part of their conservation. Maybe because some of us live in areas where we see first hand the effects of deer who starve to death during long, cold winters with not enough food in their natural habitat to go around, or struck by cars due to overpopulation, or mauled by dog packs and we understand how much more humane death by bullet is than death by starvation, Ford or being eaten.

Really now....you are speaking to one who used to be one of the most rabid anti-hunters you could have ever encountered....until I decided to educate myself and realize what a hipocrite I was being to condemn hunting and then turn around and go buy a fast food hamburger or pay the anonymous "animal murderer" who contracts with the local market to bring steak to my table so that I didn't have to get my hands dirtied by the process.

And no worries on my not getting a shot at that deer...the season won't end with my freezer empty.



missturbation -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 4:23:56 AM)

Maybe because some of us live in areas where we see first hand the effects of deer who starve to death during long, cold winters with not enough food in their natural habitat to go around

Lot of starving people in the world too. Should we go round shooting them.
It's nature and nature should run its course, not be interfered with.



Betacoywolf -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 4:32:15 AM)

shooting people...no but I happen to also now many donate there kills to local food shelf...



mistoferin -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 4:33:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Maybe because some of us live in areas where we see first hand the effects of deer who starve to death during long, cold winters with not enough food in their natural habitat to go around

Lot of starving people in the world too. Should we go round shooting them.
It's nature and nature should run its course, not be interfered with.



I'd respect your position and conviction if you told me that you were a strict Vegan who never uses any animal products. Have you ever been to a cattle stockyard, seen a veal house, a chicken farm, a hog farm, a slaughterhouse? Tell me where the natural processes are there.

Ever seen a herd of starving deer? Ever worked from dawn to dusk in the hot summer sun planting crops FOR the animals? Ever trudged through three feet of snow in the bitterness of February to take food into the woods FOR the animals? Support animal conservation with your time or money? I do these things regularly. Please don't try to paint me as being someone who cares less or is less dedicated to the quality of animal life.



meatcleaver -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 4:45:48 AM)

When I lived in rural France I shot foxes to protect the poultry and other fowl in the village and shot wild fowl and rabbits for the table (if I didn't kill my own I would have bought some anyway). I never enjoyed the act of killing but some is necessary with human encroachment in the countryside. I still don't understand hunting as entertainment though.



Betacoywolf -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 4:46:10 AM)

we interfer with nature everyday by taking away there natural habitat....we are takeing their area away so they have less and less area to run and feed in.... so yes we are responsable to help thin them out so they do not starve..



missturbation -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 4:59:31 AM)

Whilst i see what you are saying, i don't go out and kill deer just for the kill, a lot of people do. In fact i've never hunted and never will. I was a vegan for a while but due to health reasons i was unable to continue with it. I hate the thought of anything dieing in cruel circumstances and yes i've seen slaughter houses etc.
I do support animal conservation financially yes. I mainly donate to a donkey sanctuary in Nerja in Spain. There are donkeys and horses there that so badly need medical attention and help with feeding. Unfortunatley in this country we don't have the sprawling forests etc which you do for me to put my time into these things. The nearest place to me would probably be an hour away or more away and i dont drive.
I will never agree with hunting for the sport of it ever. I know you eat your kill and as betacoywolf said some even donate there kill which is good. I'm not making you out as a bad person but i have a right to an opinion on the subject of hunting and im not naive and whether i am a vegan or not my opinion should be espected just as i respect yours.
Just out of curiosity you said that killing them is vital to their conservation - how?



MizSuz -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 5:15:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Lot of starving people in the world too. Should we go round shooting them.
It's nature and nature should run its course, not be interfered with.



It's a nice thought, but a bit naive.

http://www.alternet.org/story/12162

http://www.peopleandplanet.net/pdoc.php?id=2727


While I'll grant you that most of these particular articles are written by environmentalist groups and vegetarian proponents, still the information should be examined as it is consistant with allegations long made about the meat industry.  I'm not just talking about the stereotypical 'abuses to cows' stories, I'm also talking about the impact to the environment to raise what the world now consumes in animal meat (particularly for fast food).

For the record, I'm not currently a vegetarian and I have hunted (and would probably hunt again given the opportunity and right circumstances).  I have lived off a freezer full of meat gotten by hunting and personal cultivation (it's VERY good meat).  I have raised, killed, cleaned and cooked my own meat.  Getting your own meat requires a high amount of work and responsibility that few people in contemporary days could deal with.

My hat is off to the responsible hunter.  As for the OP, let's hope karma doesn't end up getting those irresponsible hunters, they could find themself getting shot by someone who conducts themself as they do.  I hope your next hunt is more peaceful through out.



mistoferin -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 5:24:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I'm not making you out as a bad person but i have a right to an opinion on the subject of hunting and im not naive and whether i am a vegan or not my opinion should be espected just as i respect yours.
Just out of curiosity you said that killing them is vital to their conservation - how?


You're right...you do have a right to your opinion and I respect that even if I strongly disagree with it. I guess I am a little defensive because I really get tired of taking hits from people who don't have any understanding of the issues, don't want any understanding and can't be bothered by doing any of the actual work... but want to imply that I am some kind of monster because I kill "cute" animals and can't see that they are just as guilty of that crime as I am....they just don't get the blood on their hands. Even in the case of Vegans....they fail to realize that their very existence depends upon crops....crops that are grown and maintained by farmers who either poison animals,  hunt their lands or pay people to do so....as deer and other varmints are counterproductive to a healthy harvest.

As I said...hunting is vital to their conservation. Without hunting the herds would overpopulate and while their numbers would drastically increase...their quality of life would suffer. Starvation and disease would be widespread. There is not enough natural habitat for them...and with urban spread it's becoming less and less. There is not enough food to go around.

Hunting is regulated and licensed. The monies from the purchase of those licenses pays the agencies who monitor the size and health of the deer herds, pays for the upkeep of state lands and forests, pays for protected natural environments and sanctuaries to ensure their longevity, pays for studies to determine how to enhance their quality of life and pays to prosecute those who endanger natural habitats or illegally poach or trap animals. It pays for educational programs for children to learn about nature. It pays for required hunter safety classes that teach hunters to be effective and ethical.

Those are just the off the top of my head ways that hunting is vital to conservation...



Lashra -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 5:35:43 AM)

Yep hunting season is here and its sad to say but last time I went we ran into some other hunters one was so drunk he could barely stand. I personally do not think one should drink and shoot, it just is not a good mix! My sub really wants to go next week since we are both off and he just got all new hunting gear. I guess we will go but I tell you every year it just seems to get worse and more hunting accidents happen due to mostly sheer stupidity. Its a shame.

~Lashra



mnottertail -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 5:38:28 AM)

It is in fact, illegal in every state to do this, but with the scarcity of Game Wardens it does happen.

Ron



MasterDesire -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 5:42:36 AM)

Sadly the only safe place to hunt is on your own property any longer. I gave up hunting when a shot hit a tree very near by as I was walking thru the woods at  noon.  But then again some people dont respect private property either so be careful out there 



Archer -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 6:56:27 AM)

It's rather siple to explain where hunting is central to conservationhere in the US.
1910 or so there were< 1 million whitetail deer nation wide, due to unregulated hunting.
in 2006 there are many states that have more than a million deer in their state alone. What happened well it wasn't the environmentaliststhey were not around in 1910 or so when the unters self regulated, passed licnsing laws established bag limits based on the idea that if they wanted to continue to hunt they had to do something to increase the numbers of the animals they wanted to hunt.
They have paid for through liscenses and permits the safeguarding of habitat studies to determine what course of action is best for the deer population. They have trnasplanted deer back to states where the numbers were low. The Hunters were the first conservatioon minded peopl to actually take action. They imposed a sales tax on themselves to allow the government to buy land that would be held in trust or hunting and fishing.



Zensee -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 7:18:19 AM)

I never understood the conservationist argument for shooting the biggest, baddest bucks. Surely that ten point rack indicates a superior anmial which should be allowed to breed, not be culled.



Archer -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 7:45:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

I never understood the conservationist argument for shooting the biggest, baddest bucks. Surely that ten point rack indicates a superior anmial which should be allowed to breed, not be culled.



There is more to the trohy hunting than just picking the biggest badest rack.

1. The 12 ponter has fathered likely 3 or 4 years worth of fawns already by the time he gets to that age 6 years old or so, his natural lifespan being only about 2 more years. So you are only taking one more breading year away from him. (The last year being a declining year for him as far as breeding prospects too old to fight so much) So if the ratio is right he would have 16 or so fawns of his genetics in the heard already. (Young bucks often steal does away from the more "dominant bucks" while they are fighting, LOL)

2. Land managed for trophy racks have what you call managamement bucks that they tightly regulate on thier own. (culling out mature deer 5year olds who have less impressive racks that will likely never get any better)

3. The fact is a "Trophy" with that many points is a deer who has managaed to survive into his middle age  5 years + so it is pitting your wits against those of one of the best survivors as well as having the genetics that give him that rack.

4. While you hear about the trophies, there are more bucks, who are far less than trophies as far as their rack is concerned, harvested every year.

Personally I'm a meat hunter, I want the freezer full much more than a rack on the wall. But I understand the trophy hunter who does it ethicly.




LaTigresse -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 8:03:30 AM)

I believe it probably depends on where you live as to wether you understand the conservation hunting concept. 

Mist, it's like this. Back before we big bad humans inhabited the beautiful countryside in which I now live there were large predators to hunt and eat the deer. We had cougar and wolves, both excellent hunters. While I would love to see both of these animals roaming my countryside again I am quite certain most of my farm neighbours and I know that ALL of the new developements urbanites would have one big hissyfit if they thought either were being allowed to stroll their their backyards like the deer do. You would have little Ms. SUV driving 2.5kids in the back screaming bloody murder when her families dogs bloody remains were discovered. The horror, the terror.......OMG what if that were my child?!?!?!?! In addition to a few lawsuits I am sure.

We, as humans have upset the natural order of things. It used to be a cycle of predator and prey. We were threatened by the 4 legged predators and got rid of them so now the prey animals population has spiraled out of control. They suffer because of it. In addition to the expense. Everyday on my drive to work I see at least one new road kill deer, usually 3-4. You cannot imagine the damage that does to a car! I just barely tapped one so lightly he kept running and I did over $1000.00 damage to my car. I am not saying it is the fault of the deer, quite the opposite actually even though there was nothing I could have done to avoid hitting him.

In an ideal world we could just wave a magic wand to fix the whole situation. Unfortunately there is no magic fix. The animals suffer either way wether we kill them with guns humanely or not.  It is our responsibility to try and manage the mess we have created.



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 9:16:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Maybe because some of us live in areas where we see first hand the effects of deer who starve to death during long, cold winters with not enough food in their natural habitat to go around

Lot of starving people in the world too. Should we go round shooting them.
It's nature and nature should run its course, not be interfered with.




Well in our area the deer the  last few years were overpopulated and inbreeding occured. Lots of inbreeding diseases came out as well as diseases from overpopulation. Lots of deer even with people laying out corn starved and lots of fawns did not make it. When we lived in Alaska we were very strapped for money. One moose fed us the whole winter and then some. I have a problem with people poaching deer and other animals. That is wrong. People that waste meat annoy me. We only kill what we can eat. Stupid rednecks that do not follow the rules will ruin it for those of us that hunt for reasons other than trophies.



mnottertail -> RE: A hunting story/Rant (11/16/2006 9:22:21 AM)

FYI,

Something like that may be occuring on CM even as we speak.


Generally,
'I hope you know that who hit John and guns don't go together'  B. J. Books
(by god if John Wayne said it, why can't you be a man and leave guns and alcohol as separate pursuits as well???)

Dick Cheney



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