RE: To testify or not to testify!!

RE: To testify or not to testify!! (Full Version)

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missturbation -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:34:27 PM)
Well as was stated to me earlier maybe you could have been a little clearer that you werent supporting them. I apologise if i misread you but easily done as this thread has proved to me time and time again.

Kalira -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:37:24 PM)
quote: Yes, but is she also willing to risk the chance of the person she has protected going out and reoffending? Could she live with that on her question? I know only kalira can answer. Yes Mist, I could and I have; at a cost much higher than any you could possibly imagine; and one which I am not willing to go into here. Suffice it to say that if I had to do it again, I most probably would, even knowing what the cost is. quote: My umbrage as you call it is not aimed at the law but the people who will not stand up for what is right. I spoke of murder because it is a serious crime, it was used as example. There are certain crimes i would not report my loved ones for yes. On the contrary, what I did was stand firm for what I perceived as right. What may be right to you, may be wrong to others and vice versa. Open your mind a bit and step outside the box that you have created for yourself. The world is NOT black and white. quote: I cannot and will not pretend to understand someone who holds human life so low in estimation. Sometimes its not a question of human life. Sometimes its a question of which life.

missturbation -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:38:28 PM)
Well my estimation of you has gone right down the toilet ask you to please consider that those disagreeing with you may be something other than down-the-toilet types or whatever you might choose to call them. I'm encouraging you to back up for a bit from your condemnation of them as toilet stuff Please do not put words in my mouth - i stated my estimation of them had gone down that is all. Down the toilet is an expression used in england frequently. There is no inferral that they are toilet matter in it at all.

AquaticSub -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:40:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation A. You, on the other hand, might rather live in a land which in all ways relents to the pressure to see a vow as nothing more or less than any handshake over the sale of a used car. I dunno. I never said anything of the sort. I will say marriage vows have become pretty meaningless in my opinion and certainly are not more valuable than a life. B. In any case the people whose morals you are swooning in response to, missturbation, don't strike me as toilet-worthy stuff. They strike me as people hewing closely to a set of values which happen to differ from yours. Yep and as i have already stated i respect they are entitled to their opinions but i dont have to respect said opinion. C. Kalira says what she says it is clear to me that in return for the chance to live under the legal circumstances at issue she is indeed willing to confront and accept whatever ill consequences might befall her as a result of someone else exercising the right in question. Yes, but is she also willing to risk the chance of the person she has protected going out and reoffending? Could she live with that on her question? I know only kalira can answer. A. Actually that is exactly what you are saying. If you are saying "marriage vows have become pretty meaningless in my opinion and certainly are not more valuable than a life," then they aren't any more important then a handshake over a car deal. B. You certainly don't have to but it would make you a better person and raise to a better level of humanity. It would also make you a nicer person to chat with on forums. C. I'm sure she has considered it. Let's hope she never has to find out if she can truely deal with the consquences but apprently she thinks she can.

AquaticSub -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:43:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Well as was stated to me earlier maybe you could have been a little clearer that you werent supporting them. I apologise if i misread you but easily done as this thread has proved to me time and time again. I am supporting them. I don't agree with them, but I am supporting them. Otherwise I wouldn't have been defending them in an attempt to open your mind to the fact that people do disagree with you and have valid reasons for doing so. This is like when people tell women who have been raped they can't abort because life is more importent. Even if it was their dear sweet Daddy who raped them. A marriage is supposed to a contract between you and your partner, not just in flesh but in soul. If you can't not respect that some people still hold to that ideal, then why on earth should we respect your points?

missturbation -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:44:36 PM)
Yes Mist, I could and I have; at a cost much higher than any you could possibly imagine; and one which I am not willing to go into here. Suffice it to say that if I had to do it again, I most probably would, even knowing what the cost is. As i have already stated i respect your right to that choice but that does not mean i have to respect your choice. On the contrary, what I did was stand firm for what I perceived as right. What may be right to you, may be wrong to others and vice versa. Open your mind a bit and step outside the box that you have created for yourself. The world is NOT black and white. Just because i will not respect or agree or understand your actions does no make me of a closed mind. It just means i will not respect what you did. Sometimes its not a question of human life. Sometimes its a question of which life. Yes we all make our choices and as long as you can live with the consequences of yours then so be it. We can go around in circles all day if you like but there is a difference between me respecting you have a choice to make and respecting the choice you do make. My opinion of someone who would protect a murderer, rapist, paedophile will never change and that is my opinion and whilst on the subject of respect i think you should respect i am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours.

AquaticSub -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:45:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation My opinion of someone who would protect a murderer, rapist, paedophile will never change and that is my opinion and whilst on the subject of respect i think you should respect i am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours. See now you are changing things... Are you talking about just murder, just pedophila or all crimes including traffic tickets? Be clear!

missturbation -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:47:55 PM)
B. You certainly don't have to but it would make you a better person and raise to a better level of humanity. It would also make you a nicer person to chat with on forums. Now thats funny. Just as i would not hold any of your views on this topic against you in any other thread i would expect the same in return. I dont have to and it certainly doesnt make me a nicer person for respecting an opinion i believe to be wrong. Thats just plain daft.

missturbation -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:51:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation My opinion of someone who would protect a murderer, rapist, paedophile will never change and that is my opinion and whilst on the subject of respect i think you should respect i am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours. As i said earlier ( i do wish people would read threads before jumping on people) there are certain things i probably would not testify against a loved one for. My whole point has been based around and frequently stated to be around serious crimes. And the comment about marriage yes its a piece of paper to me but i do respect that others do not feel that way and that is why my response was just an opinion. See now you are changing things... Are you talking about just murder, just pedophila or all crimes including traffic tickets? Be clear!

Kalira -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:53:25 PM)
quote: and whilst on the subject of respect i think you should respect i am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours Your words do not show understanding of another Mist. Until that happens, you will never earn the respect that you feel is so deserving. There are things in life that happen, that throw you for a loop, and force you to choose a path to walk. Until you can say for certain that you would NEVER veer from the path that leads straight, I suggest you try understanding. You just may learn a thing or two about human nature as it applies to the real world.

AquaticSub -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:53:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation B. You certainly don't have to but it would make you a better person and raise to a better level of humanity. It would also make you a nicer person to chat with on forums. Now thats funny. Just as i would not hold any of your views on this topic against you in any other thread i would expect the same in return. I dont have to and it certainly doesnt make me a nicer person for respecting an opinion i believe to be wrong. Thats just plain daft. Here we go with the words again. "It would make you a nicer person to chat with on the forums" does not mean "I'm not going to attack you in every thread I see you posting in." It means that I learn from previous experience what you are teaching me is that you utterly and simply can not respect an opinion that is different from your own. Doing so would make you a nicer person to chat with since you would refrain from bathroom remarks about humanity and wild accusations of people protecting rapists. Can you see the difference between "it would make you a better person to chat with" and "I will hold a grudge against you" now? I don't particularly care for repeating myself but just to be clear: If I was going to hold a grudge, I would say. I didn't say so. Edited to add: Damn my typos!

AquaticSub -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:55:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalira quote: and whilst on the subject of respect i think you should respect i am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours Your words do not show understanding of another Mist. Until that happens, you will never earn the respect that you feel is so deserving. There are things in life that happen, that throw you for a loop, and force you to choose a path to walk. Until you can say for certain that you would NEVER veer from the path that leads straight, I suggest you try understanding. You just may learn a thing or two about human nature as it applies to the real world. Excellently and very respectfully put. My admiration for you grows higher.

missturbation -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 7:57:59 PM)
Your words do not show understanding of another Mist. Until that happens, you will never earn the respect that you feel is so deserving Respect and understanding are two different things. I dont understand your choices but i respect your decision to make them. I will not validate your choices because i dont believe they were right. Look elsewhere for that.

AquaticSub -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 8:02:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Your words do not show understanding of another Mist. Until that happens, you will never earn the respect that you feel is so deserving Respect and understanding are two different things. I dont understand your choices but i respect your decision to make them. I will not validate your choices because i dont believe they were right. Look elsewhere for that. Validation and respect are entirely different, as confirmed by Mr. Webster. You could not validate her opinion because you can not confirm it is the right one. Only a spiritual being (of your choosing of course) could do that. However, you can respect it, which you haven't exactly been doing.

marieToo -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 8:03:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Apparently in the 1800's it was illegal (certainly in the USA) to testify against your husband in court unless he gave you permission. Just made me wonder would you testify against a partner or a loved one if it came to it? Im not sure if this is accurate. Was it illegal to testify against a spouse? Or was it that you were excempt from being required (subpoened) to testify? Either way, it doesn't matter. If you do have to testify, there really is no way to know with certainly if someone is being honest. The oath that is taken by litigants and witnesses is basically a formality. From my own experiences in the legal system I can tell you that truth holds very little water, if any at all, in any legal movement or courthouse in America; mostly because there's no way to prove 'truth' and legal professionals simply aren't interested in the truth. The entire legal system, in my view, is an institution based on politics rather than justice. I'm not saying there isn't any justice at all, but I believe it's the exception, rather than the rule.

missturbation -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 8:05:11 PM)
It means that I learn from previous experience what you are teaching me is that you utterly and simply can not respect an opinion that is different from your own. I and to be honest im sick of saying it respect everyone has the right to choose but it doesnt mena i have to respect their choices. This contrary to your belief does not make me a bad person. I am not judging anyone as you are constantly judging who i am. bathroom remarks about humanity Read my earlier post which covers the remarks i made before judging me yet again. You can all attack my beliefs as much as you wish and judge me as you see fit. I find this to be getting tedious as we are going round in circles and to be honest you can see me as you like. Just because i wont bend to your will does not make me a bad person. If you wish to see me as such - go ahead.

Kalira -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 8:05:42 PM)
quote: I will not validate your choices because i dont believe they were right. Look elsewhere for that. /smiles I do not seek validation from strangers for what I choose to do in my own life

missturbation -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 8:08:18 PM)
I'm only going to say this once more. I dont respect her choices but i respect her choice to make a choice. I cannot respect something which to me is wrong and won't.

AquaticSub -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 8:11:21 PM)
Oh honestly for the last time... Disagreeing with you and pointing out that you can't seem to respect other's opinions does not mean I think you are a bad person. It means you either care so passionately about this topic that you can't see other points of views or you just like to sidestep by saying "I respect your ability to decide, but I just hate what you've decided so I'm going to badmouth you" instead of the more reasoned and respectful, "Well I see where you are coming from but I really disagree because I feel a life is worth more then a marriage vow." I don't blame you for it. I just ask that you see it. I've lost my temper here. I would imagine most people do.

missturbation -> RE: To testify or not to testify!! (11/18/2006 8:11:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalira quote: I will not validate your choices because i dont believe they were right. Look elsewhere for that. /smiles I do not seek validation from strangers for what I choose to do in my own life Then i suggest you stop seeking my respect for your choices. By respect just to clarify for those out there who dont read prior posts and punce i mean respect for the choice you made. As previously stated i respect your right to make that choice.

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