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RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/20/2006 4:01:10 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		This is going to be my last post in this thread as it has become in the words of a friend who read it - nothing but a witch hunt.
 
I personally would only testify if my loved one was commiting serial murder, rape or child abuse. Small petty crimes i would not testify.
 
Whilst i respect the right of anyone to have an opinion i do not have to respect that opinion.
 
For those of you out there who have stated you would be loyal no matter what crime had been commited i ask you to consider the following :-
 
Loyal - faithful to ones friends.
Faithful - consistently reliable.
Reliable - able to be trusted.
Trust - to believe in and rely on.
 
All very admirable qualities i think you will agree? All closely linked?
 
So according to my dictionary to be loyal you are also faithful which means consistently reliable. How constant is behaviour which would testify against a stranger but not a loved one? How relaible are they when they will go to such extents to protect a loved one? Trust? Im not sure i could trust someone willing not to testify, what else are they hiding? To believe in and rely on is the definition of trust. Would i believe in someone who could stand by? Could i rely on someone to do the right thing who would stand by?
 
Before the pounces begin please note i have stated several times that there are circumstances i would not testify against a loved one.
 
To address the other issue of the witch hunt - respect!
Respect - deference of conduct or character.
I cannot show false deference. I respect you all (in general) as people but do not respect the actions some of you would take. This does not make me a bad person, it makes me LOYAL to my beliefs.
 
Aside from all these issues what about the the reliance of your partner in you that you would be there to help them? Im sure you would agree a serial killer, rapist, child abuser could use some help? So is protecting them actually helpful or loyal?

* all dictionary quotes taken from collins essential dictionary and thesaurus.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 11/20/2006 4:04:34 PM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/20/2006 6:10:17 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		OY!!! NINE pages for the original poster to be sure no one answered her question in any other way than what she'd intended from the beginning. I simply have to ask, why was the question put forth to begin with if the OP had already determined which way everyone else was supposed to respond.

The next time, perhaps a clue could have been given up front - like,... say.. perhaps...

"The answer to this question is ___________ and if you don't agree with me, Don't post." (and then the orignal poster can just fill in the blank and be done with it.)

juliet

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/20/2006 6:15:56 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline 		I am loyal to my friends, family, and Master
I am faithful to Master
I am reliable to my friends, family, and Master
I am trusted by my friends, my family, and by Master

In that same vein, they are all loyal, faithful, reliable,and trustworty.

Your arguement holds no weight.

quote:

  Before the pounces begin please note i have stated several times that there are circumstances i would not testify against a loved one.


Yes, you have, several times. I would like to know what they are. List them please.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/20/2006 7:34:45 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		I was watching a documentary about the Catholic priest scandals and the cover up. And it reminded me of this thread. It's quite similiar

The priests were loyal to their church and fellow priests above all else including the moral code professed by the church itself.

Yet in being loyal to the church and fellow priests that were molesting the unmentionables, they sacrificed their own morals and violated the very principles the church was founded upon.

This is really exactly the same mentality, that one would have to take if they flatly state "I would not testify". The priest would not testify, the church would not testify even though it was in violation of their professed principles.

So, I guess they were loyal. They were alot of other things to.

Makes me wonder about the high ground of such a position when it has been tested.


Like in Animal Farm right, when the pigs start changing the laws.
It goes from "All animals are created equal" to All animals are created equal, but some are more equal". LOL.

My order of importance goes like this

My moral code.

Period that's it. If I think cold blooded murder is wrong, then regardless of who it is they would need punished, not because the government wanted it, but because I would want them punished as well. I'd be a hypocrite if I said if a stranger murders, I'd want them punished differently or less severely, but if the woman fucking me did it, well that's different. LOL. Where's the consistent application. I could understand if one took the position they'd never testify. But to hold one persons crime above another because of happenstance of relationship, is really what most people bitch about is wrong with the world.

I guess I have to respect the priests now, and ole Ted Kennedy getting away with murder because of his connections. Etc.. Etc... Etc.... Hey they're working on the loyalty system, be damned with the strangers, they are equal right, but less equal than the people I know. LMAO.

I'm sure they took care of Ted internally, that talking to must've been worse than prison.

Funny Stuff.

(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 3:24:20 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline 		i find it hard to imagine loving someone, and marrying them, and still holding their life as being no more valuable to you than that of any random stranger. To me, it's my wife and i against the world, right or wrong. The only situation in which there would be a conflict is if she knowingly hurt a member of my family or someone else i loved... obviously something that no one would ever want to be faced with. Otherwise... what she needs, will be done.

...dave

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 9:24:52 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

It seems to me, based on her responses, that she wanted a bunch of people to agree with her that everyone should testify against their spouses in all cases.
Did i say all cases?
Go back and do a little reading. How many times did i have to say i would not always testify?
 
Her tone has changed slightly during the course of the thread but she jumps down throats and from all that I can see, she doesn't consider other's opinions in the slightest,
Funnily enough i have agreed with quite a few. I personally would not testify unless it was serial murder, rape, child abuse but ive said that all along.
You have continously read what you want to and skipped over what you didnt want to.
Like someone said i can repeat my opinion until im blue in the face but you will see what you want to see.
Also as someone said you are getting slightly annoying with your constant sniping.
Maybe you should just refrain from reading any of my threads.


Not that you are going to read this, if you are true to your recent post but...

All right, you have said you wouldn't testify in some cases. Good for you. That isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how you don't seem to consider other people's point of view regarding the things you don't agree with. It's really easy to consider a point of view when you agree with it!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 9:25:56 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

OY!!! NINE pages for the original poster to be sure no one answered her question in any other way than what she'd intended from the beginning. I simply have to ask, why was the question put forth to begin with if the OP had already determined which way everyone else was supposed to respond.

The next time, perhaps a clue could have been given up front - like,... say.. perhaps...

"The answer to this question is ___________ and if you don't agree with me, Don't post." (and then the orignal poster can just fill in the blank and be done with it.)

juliet


Thank you.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 9:28:10 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Apparently in the 1800's it was illegal (certainly in the USA) to testify against your husband in court unless he gave you permission.
Just made me wonder would you testify against a partner or a loved one if it came to it?



haven't read most of the replies, just responding to the OP.

there is no situation in which i would ever testify against my Master (he's my only "loved one"). not only that, but i would do my best to defend, lie for, and protect him, if he allowed.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 11:20:34 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		*fast reply*

i have to say, i find some peoples unconditional support for loved ones problematic. If we love someone we think the very best of them usually...we find it hard, if not impossible, to imagine them doing something really bad.........but what if they did? Suppose they turned out to be a sleeper agent for Al Quaida, or a closet paedophile....suppose they bombed civilians in Northern Ireland or raped someone?
We love someone because we see wonderful things in them, but some crimes must be answered for.....and i distrust those who think that just because we think we know someone we have to protect them against the consequences of their own actions.

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 11:30:31 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

i find it hard to imagine loving someone, and marrying them, and still holding their life as being no more valuable to you than that of any random stranger. To me, it's my wife and i against the world, right or wrong. The only situation in which there would be a conflict is if she knowingly hurt a member of my family or someone else i loved... obviously something that no one would ever want to be faced with. Otherwise... what she needs, will be done.

...dave



On the flipside, I think it would be impossible for me to love someone I knew to be a cold-blooded murder or rapist. If I found out the love of my life was actually a horrible person, I'd feel betrayed and lied to. I wouldn't say "oh, don't worry about it babe I still love you, even though you possess qualities I find absolutely disgusting and repulsive", LOL,  and if I'd have known from the beginning my hypothetical spouse possessed those qualities I wouldn't have even spoken to her. There is a reason I'm not courting women in correctional facilities that were placed there for monstrous crimes.

A person doesn't just go from being the type of person I would fall for, to a cold-blooded murderer or rapist, and alot of lies not being thrown about before pertaining to the values that person supposedly held.




(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 11:52:24 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

*fast reply*

i have to say, i find some peoples unconditional support for loved ones problematic. If we love someone we think the very best of them usually...we find it hard, if not impossible, to imagine them doing something really bad.........but what if they did? Suppose they turned out to be a sleeper agent for Al Quaida, or a closet paedophile....suppose they bombed civilians in Northern Ireland or raped someone?
We love someone because we see wonderful things in them, but some crimes must be answered for.....and i distrust those who think that just because we think we know someone we have to protect them against the consequences of their own actions.


i'm not one of those who feels that my Master can do no wrong. i know pretty darn well what he is capable of. i also know that i love him unconditionally, and that i am also unconditionally loyal to him, which means that regardless of what crime he commited, i would do all i could to help him, and would never even for a fleeting moment consider reporting him to authorities or testifying against him.

but i also agree partially with NeedToUseYou, in that people don't usually have such drastic shifts in personality and character. i can name with confidence a great number of things i know my Master would never do (any sort of theft comes to mind). however because i know him so well, i can also think of things that i know he is capable of doing (murder or even rape under certain circumstances). but regardless, he is my Master and i am loyal to him to the end...period.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 2:46:26 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Your arguement holds no weight.
Fair enough you don't agree - shit happens.
 
Before the pounces begin please note i have stated several times that there are circumstances i would not testify against a loved one.
Yes, you have, several times. I would like to know what they are. List them please.

It would probably be quicker for me to list what i would testify against as the list i wouldnt is probably longer.
To start with rape. Of course there are always circumstances of people calling wolf in these cases but if i was sure and had the eveidence then i would definately testify. As a victim of rape myself i know how it feels and i would not protect anyone who put a woman / man through that. 
Child abuse / paedophile. I would really hope i dont have to list the whys. Anyone who hurts a child deserves to rot in hell in my opinion.
Murder. This is probably where the grey area is for me. I think it would be safe to say i would testify against anyone who killed for no good reason. Of course a good reason will vary depending on what you believe. I would definatley testify in all cases of serial murder. One off killings over drugs, money, rows etc again i would testify. Something like someone murdering because someone has done harm to someone they care about (raped them, attacked them etc) then no i probably would not testify. I cant be 100% what i would not testify about.
Hope that answers your question?



_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 2:49:12 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		All right, you have said you wouldn't testify in some cases. Good for you. That isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how you don't seem to consider other people's point of view regarding the things you don't agree with. It's really easy to consider a point of view when you agree with it!
As i have said already i have listened to everyone and not judged anyone. If i dont agree i dont agree. You dont agree with how i have responded and thats fine but stop witch hunting for it. The problem is if i dont listen well neither do you as i have had to repeat myself time and time again. Badgering me will not change my answers so if you dont like them stop asking.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 2:52:17 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I simply have to ask, why was the question put forth to begin with if the OP had already determined which way everyone else was supposed to respond
I've told noone how to respond. I dont like some of the answers and im not going to pretend i do.
The answer to this question is ___________ and if you don't agree with me, Don't post." (and then the orignal poster can just fill in the blank and be done with it.)
I may add something like if you cant be bothered reading my replies properly or just want to twist words and misquote dont reply.
Funnily enough i thought this was a forum where everyone could post their opinions and thoughts. If you dont like mine dont read them.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 2:55:23 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

This is going to be my last post in this thread...

Why is it that no one ever means it when they say this?

~stef

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(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 2:57:43 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I did at the time but kalira had asked a question and i owed her a reply. I dont like to ignore people.
Aquaticsub - well - again ignoring her wudnt be too polite.


_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 3:09:43 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, they mean it when they say it, but the temptation to get in the last word is too great to resist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

This is going to be my last post in this thread...

Why is it that no one ever means it when they say this?

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/21/2006 3:18:28 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Lol usually something like that but i doubt it. No doubt someone will ask the same question they already have over and over.
Maybe i should practice biting my tongue - what do ya think?

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/24/2006 10:42:28 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I dunno, I thought I had answered this pretty well. If my spouse killed someone for a good reason I would try to make sure she got away with it. If she was nuts off she goes, I don't want her around me. Not that I don't love her, but if she really needs to be stopped, I will do it.

Some SOB really screwed her years ago and she finally got the chance to whack him, I would go with it. Seeing justice is not always calling the cops. There is a fulcrum at the crux of this whole thing, and it is the answer to the question "Why did you do it ?".

Of course there is too much to this for it to be a black and white situation, and the shades of gray are deadly. I hope I never have that problem.

T

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: To testify or not to testify!! - 11/24/2006 10:48:41 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, they mean it when they say it, but the temptation to get in the last word is too great to resist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

This is going to be my last post in this thread...

Why is it that no one ever means it when they say this?



*nodnod* They probably hope that the thread will die after they leave.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 180
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