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Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 8:18:15 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
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I would like to get some opinions on something that happened with Me and my sub this weekend. My sub was a Master and separated from his slave/wife when I met him almost 3 years ago. He knew I was a Dominant woman and he accepted this particularly as our feelings towards one another grew. He divorced his slave, and we got together.
When we first started out playing it was as switches and he easily fell into the role of submissive. Finally after some time I noticed he did not want to seem to Top, he confided in me that he no longer had a desire to Top as he felt his true nature was that of a submissive. He said being submissive made him feel totally at peace with himself and that he finally was being his real self. I said I agreed that a person must do what makes them happy and be true to their own nature. Therefore, I took him on as my sub and he has made a lot of progress in the last year and has grown in so many ways.
This weekend we were playing and I commanded him to slap my ass. He hesitated and said “What Mistress?” I said, “Slap my ass “again he hesitated and he had the most confused expression on his face. So I stopped the scene and asked him what was wrong? He said he couldn’t do as I commanded him because to him it was wrong, a sub/slave should never strike the Dominant. Apparently he had been told by others in the community that this was a very wrong thing to do. I explained to him that I did not believe it was wrong as he would be following a command that I had given him and by not doing it he was disobeying me. I further explained that each couple has their own rules and dynamic. What may work for one couple may not work for us and we can shape our relationship any way that we wish too. He respectfully asked permission to think this over so he could sort it out in his head. I agreed and we went on with our playtime.
Has anyone come across this and if so what did you do about it? He seemed truly troubled by it and I want to help him as best I can to sort it all out. ~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

Post #: 1

RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 8:26:54 PM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
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What exactly are you asking?

If we have ever came across a sub that...
1) disobeyed
2) disobeyed because outside influence had convinced them that they knew the one true way
3) Use to be a Master/Dominant & found they were much more suited as being a submissive

???

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 11/19/2006 8:27:49 PM >

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 8:33:24 PM

Lashra

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Joined: 2/9/2006
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I am asking if anyone has had a sub who previously had been a Master or a Top. That once they became a sub, they couldn't pick up a crop and strike their Domme's ass when commanded because of the dynamic change. If this has happened, how was it dealt with?

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

Post #: 3

RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 8:38:40 PM

GrizzlyBear

Posts: 278
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Missoula Montana
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Plenty of people feel the way you do, that a Dominant should be able to ask a submissive to top them. (OK, a slap on the ass is stretching "topping" a bit) because they are following orders by doing so.

However your sub has a history here, and has indicated they feel the act would damage the relationship as they see it. It seems he doesn't want to go back to switching. Just how badly do you want your ass slapped? Is it worth the damage it may cause to his submissive mindset?

I would suggest working up to this. Start with him giving you a massage. Tell him to incorporate some percussive (Swedish) techniques. Coach him in the way you want to be massaged, eventually work up to where he is slapping your ass the way you want it slapped. It won't be such a big deal to ask him to do it like that the next time, without the massage prelims.

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GrizzlyBear

"Come to the edge," he said.
They said, "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge," he said.
They came. He pushed them. And they flew.
~Guillaume Apollinaire

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 4

RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 8:41:45 PM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
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From: West Palm Beach, FL
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Yes I have had 2 full time collared subs in the past that were exactly this & I have spoken to & "dated" many others that expressed that this was what happened when they came to fully embrace their true submissive nature.

I had one man tell me how it got to a point he hurt inside to think of some of the things he had done to those he topped or dominated when he identified that way. I spent a great deal of time just speaking to him, reassuring him that he should let go of any guilt he held onto. I eventually was able to get in touch with one women & she assured me that she felt no ill will toward him & he had always treated her well when they knew each other. I finally asked her to let him ask her to forgive him because this is really what he needed at that point so he could move on.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 11/19/2006 8:46:37 PM >

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MstrssPassion

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 8:47:55 PM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
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From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrizzlyBear

Plenty of people feel the way you do, that a Dominant should be able to ask a submissive to top them. (OK, a slap on the ass is stretching "topping" a bit) because they are following orders by doing so.

However your sub has a history here, and has indicated they feel the act would damage the relationship as they see it. It seems he doesn't want to go back to switching. Just how badly do you want your ass slapped? Is it worth the damage it may cause to his submissive mindset?

I would suggest working up to this. Start with him giving you a massage. Tell him to incorporate some percussive (Swedish) techniques. Coach him in the way you want to be massaged, eventually work up to where he is slapping your ass the way you want it slapped. It won't be such a big deal to ask him to do it like that the next time, without the massage prelims.

Very good point!

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to GrizzlyBear)

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 9:07:28 PM

cabernet

Posts: 40
Joined: 4/10/2004
Status: offline

I have some friends, a D/s couple (male Dom, female sub). He is strictly dominant, she has a history of being a switch, but is only submissive with him. He likes anal play done to him and wanted her to use a strap on with him. She really had a hard time with this because she associated it with being dominant. He explained that since it was what HE wanted that she was being submissive by doing it. She overcame this and they have a great sex life.

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 9:59:47 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
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My concern is for his submissive mindset and his mental well being. It is not worth it to me to bottom a couple times a year if it is going to cause him to be upset and mess up what I consider a very good relationship.

I believe he has always been submissive by nature and hid it very well. Now that I've brought that to the surface, he maybe afraid of going back. He has said his submission has set him free, perhaps he views his topping as a set of chains he never wishes to wear again.

Thanks for the input,
~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to GrizzlyBear)

Post #: 8

RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 11:19:45 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
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To my knowledge, I've not dated/been with a sub who was previously a dominant, but I have run into the problem of having to deprogram previous training/information.
I nearly cringe when someone tells me an act is not dominant, because it usually means I have to go into the explanation of what domination and submission mean, in that whatever I ask/order him to do is dominant, and his job in response is to submit and do it.

For myself, I've found that with time, repeated conversations on why I like/want something, along with explanation that no act is itself dominant/submissive works... That and insisting on getting what I want/need from him. M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 11/19/2006 11:21:47 PM >

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a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 11:27:02 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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Angel was never a Top, but he coud never strike me even if commanded to do so. Hell, he cant even be on top when we play becasue it seems wrong to him. For some who are submissive, regardless of whether they have Dominant backgrounds or not, once they are in the submissive mindset things they think of as Dominant are difficult to reconsile. Command or not, sometimes they just cant do it.
I do explain to my pets, angel included, that I dont realy care what sort of expereince they had, becasue I run my relationships they way I want to. Regardless of what they may have learned from other Dominants or submissives in their expereince, what I say goes. Disobeying an order becasue someone else told him it wasnt proper is unacceptable. Questioning one becasue he cant quite wrap his head around it is slightly easier to handle. For me at least.

DV

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I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

Post #: 10

RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 11:29:10 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

I used to be owned by a Mistress who used to play head games with me somewhat like that. She'd say something like "Slap my ass!", knowing I'd do whatever she told me, and then I would. Then she'd stop, turn serious, staring at me and say "I can't believe you just did that." Then I'd get punished, but usually she'd say something along the lines of "Let me show you how you SHOULD slap an ass!"

It was always in good fun. I think.

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/19/2006 11:47:33 PM

ineedotk

Posts: 109
Joined: 8/17/2006
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Lashra, I've always wondered if something like this would come up on here. Each one of you is correct in his or her eyes based on the standards each of you is using. So the REAL question is, "Which standards should be followed?"

Here you have the BDSM community and its unwritten code of standards for D/s relationships (if it is written somewhere, who wrote it, how accurate is it, and just who originated all the rules in the first place?) on one hand, and on the other hand you have an actual Domme giving a command which is being questioned by the sub because the sub sees the command as going against BDSM rules. So, which has presidence, the ruler or the rules?

This takes us back to the same real question concerning which standards to follow. I have to ask, "How can you make a code of standards in any relationship where there is a recognized dominant?" Because if you make a set of rules, that takes away from the authority of the dominant individual. I have to agree with you on this one, Lashra. If two people are in a relationship together and both agree that one is dominant over the other, then that's all the rules anybody needs: what the dominant says goes!

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/20/2006 2:09:50 AM

leatherzack

Posts: 59
Joined: 7/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I believe he has always been submissive by nature and hid it very well. Now that I've brought that to the surface, he maybe afraid of going back. He has said his submission has set him free, perhaps he views his topping as a set of chains he never wishes to wear again.

Thanks for the input,
~Lashra

i think i had quite the same experience.
i used to consider me as a switch at first but since i discovered my truly submissive side, i can't even imagine slap a partner.
As You said, he could consider that as coming back to a Dominant place that was not his real place and that could also change Your actual relationship.
But that is just my opinion.

(in reply to Lashra)

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/20/2006 2:13:42 AM

leatherzack

Posts: 59
Joined: 7/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

This weekend we were playing and I commanded him to slap my ass.

Were You thinking about reversing the roles or was it just an "extra" for You while you were Dominating him ?

(in reply to Lashra)

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/20/2006 5:41:42 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
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If Master asked me to hit him.. I couldnt and not because he is my Master (well thats one reason) but because it is completley agenst my nature to hit anyone period Im just not like that it upsets me greatly to inflict pain on others and beeing asked to hit my Master by my Master would be completly unsettling to me. It would hurt me greatly to do so in fact im pretty sure what ever punishment Master would come up with for disobaying him by not hitting him would be infinetly better then to go through with it and hit him(emotionaly better anyway).. I would not be able to come to terms with it in my head!!

Magik's slave

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If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to leatherzack)

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/20/2006 6:03:49 AM

NINASHARP

Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I am asking if anyone has had a sub who previously had been a Master or a Top. That once they became a sub, they couldn't pick up a crop and strike their Domme's ass when commanded because of the dynamic change. If this has happened, how was it dealt with?

~Lashra

Your post runs very close to my heart. There are days when I feel like just letting go of my control and reversing our roles as me being Mistress. Occsionally, it would be an intense change and maybe a better fit sexually at times. But I discover more and more over the years that the sub that use to be a Master to me, is more and more submissive. When giving free reign to write me any fantasy of his chosiing, he is always submissive in the fantasies. Also his collection of bondage pics are all men in bondage and I find my tastes in photos are of equally both genders. These were his discoveries before we met, which reveal themselves later in our relationship. Could yours really be someone who also desires more of a submissive now then a switch?

I have also wondered after topping so long and keeping the switch on the back burner, if I could completely switch again. But as a submissive who has been instructed to top both my former Masters, I had no problem in adminstrating the first lashes at all.

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My stiletto boots fit like gloves around his wrists.. as I locked them on I knew we were a match!

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/20/2006 6:09:02 AM

NINASHARP

Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

My concern is for his submissive mindset and his mental well being. It is not worth it to me to bottom a couple times a year if it is going to cause him to be upset and mess up what I consider a very good relationship.

I believe he has always been submissive by nature and hid it very well. Now that I've brought that to the surface, he maybe afraid of going back. He has said his submission has set him free, perhaps he views his topping as a set of chains he never wishes to wear again.

Thanks for the input,
~Lashra

My first reply was before reading the entire thread. Now I would only ask if you feel like switching and he can't, how do you now get your needs met? Or don't you?

_____________________________

My stiletto boots fit like gloves around his wrists.. as I locked them on I knew we were a match!

(in reply to Lashra)

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/20/2006 8:27:01 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
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From: Charleston, WV
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Social conditioning can be a hard thing to overcome. he's been taught this...it is his job to work through it in order to obey. Part of this is probably him also being taught that the sub recieves and the Dominant gives when it comes to pain. When he can seperate the physical (pain) from the mental (Ds), he'll do much better. I know lots of Doms and Masters who are also masochists...and their subs and slaves beat them as a service.

Master Fire

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RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/20/2006 8:48:37 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
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Right now I've put my bottom needs on the back burner. Yes I know alot of Dominants would shake their heads at me. But to ME, my subs mental well being is more important then a few moments of my own phyiscal pleasure. I need to know that he understands and is ok with this. I don't want him or our relationship damaged, so I've decided the wisest course of action is to just take it one step at a time and see how it goes.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to NINASHARP)

Post #: 19

RE: Master, switch, sub, confused? - 11/20/2006 8:53:12 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

Well we used to switch and it is not beyond me to switch in midplay

So it was something extra that we have not done since he went totally submissive. We have done it in the past, but it seems that now he cannot do this. So rather then push him and insist, I stopped and we sat and talked a bit about it. Then we went back to playing because we only had the one night.

I sent him an email and told him I wanted his point of view in detail. I want to know why he has this point of view, where did he get it from (if he can indentify that) etc. So hopefully it will help me understand so I can help him.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to leatherzack)

Post #: 20

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