Rover
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MisPandora
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rover
quote:
ORIGINAL: MisPandora
Concerning this, the big push now is to remove paraphilias from the DSM so that pedophilia can be criminalized rather than being treated as a medical or psychological disorder. Psychopathia Sexualis is referred to numerous times in the discussion and support material for this argument.
Can you name for me even one jurisdiction in which pedophilia is NOT criminal? Can you name for me even one degreed psychology professsional who advocates the removal of pedophilia from the DSM?
Ah yes, the gentleman troublemaker.
You're missing the point. Pedophilia is criminal, yes -- BUT: court systems are encouraged to treat the individual committing these crimes as though they were SICK rather than criminal because of the presence of the paraphilias section of the DSM. That issue takes precedence, leaving a judge the obligation to go the mental health route and not simply taking this person out of society because they are a threat.
I'd be happy to cite for you the degreed individuals who lead this charge of removing the paraphilias section from the DSM4. It is not, as you suggest, the brainchild of some "non-degreed individual", but an idea coming out of the mental health and medical communities who are BDSM oriented. Even the APA, who has put out a fact sheet proclaiming pedophilia to be criminal and immoral, has failed to address whether it considers a person with a pedophile orientation to have a mental disorder!!!!
Dr. Charles Moser (that's an MD and a PhD)
Peggy Kleinplatz, PhD from U Ottawa
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/GESUND/ARCHIV/MoserKleinplatz.htm
Personally, I don't ever see paraphilias coming out of the DSM completely. I see adjustments in how fetishism is viewed, as well as gender associative disorders and the like, all lumped into that section. I can't even say with any amount of certainty whether sadism and masochism would ever lighten in it's harsh views within the DSM (if it's acted upon, it's a disorder.) Like laws that are written, I hope the APA and healthcare practitioners are compelled to interpret these classifications on an individual basis and make a determination on the functionality and integration of the person, not simply on the dictionary definition of what is perceived to be a disorder.
Another interesting read is a paper published by Dr. Richard Green of the Dept of Psychiatry of the Imperial School of Medicine at Charing Cross Hospital in London. He's put together a compelling paper on pedophilia being questionable as a mental disorder. It's been published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior.
1. Actually, I didn't miss any of the point. It should come as no surprise that courts are always encouraged by defense attorneys to find their clients not guilty, whether that be by evidentiary means, illness, or whatever means gullible courts may swallow. That's the nature of our criminal justice system.
2. By your own admission, pedophilia is a criminal offfense. By your own admission removing it from the DSM will not make it any more criminal. And in doing so you completely invalidated your argument that removing it from the DSM would criminalize it. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words on your part. Perhaps it was merely stretching a point. Perhaps it was something else. Regardless, it is provably inaccurate.
3. You cannot make up for failings in the criminal justice system (those of gullibility and/or sentencing) by tinkering with something entirely unrelated (in this case mental health diagnosis). Invariably these machinations have undesired and unforseen effects (I mentioned several in my post to you), making the problem even more complicated and the root cause unaddressed. Of course, that has never stopped the social engineers from making the same mistake over and over (and over again).
4. Incarceration and treatment are not mutually exclusive. It is not the "either or" choice that you portray it to be. If judges are unable or unwilling to deliver stiff sentences, they can be removed from the bench. And if sufficiently lengthy sentences are not available to them, the laws can be amended to make sentencing more appropriate. In neither case is it necessary to change the DSM.
5. Again, I ask you to provide me one (just one) mental health professional that advocates the removal of pedophilia (forget the other philias... let's stick with just this one) from the DSM. I'm not saying one does not exist (for Pete's sake, you can always find at least one psych professional to make even the craziest assertion), but I'm not aware of even one, and thus far you have not provided reference to a single one to support your contention. Given your claim that a great many mental health professionals wish to remove pedophilia from the DSM, you should be able to provide a substantial list.
6. "Failing to address" whether pedophilia is a mental disorder is a far cry from advocating its removal from the DSM. Unless you're simply willing to go the extra yard, where the APA is not.
7. You state that if sadism and masochism are acted upon, then they're a disorder. Yet you infer that pedophilia, acted upon, is not. Please help make that distinction, as it is not obvious to me.
8. If questioning the status quo, or ignorance, makes me a trouble maker then I wear that badge proudly.
9. "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" when it comes to fellow lifestylers is not (in my view) an admirable mantra. Nor will it do anything to further our causes.
John
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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."
Sri da Avabhas
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RE: Psychopathia Sexualis - 
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