A Little of That European Old School Domination

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celticPoet -> A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/20/2006 5:38:57 PM)
For quite a while I have watched the trends and changes in the world of Dom / Sub - Master / Slave - Daddy / Little Girl and wondered what happened to the age of cherrish and nurture? I am one of the Old School of European style domination, the type that was reflected in Professor Higgins teaching of Liza Doolittle, where there was more than just pain and humilation offered but a true molding and forming of your sub into a more enlightened servant and not just a pet. I am here to seek out those who share that simple philospohy and continue on in a more enloghtened atmosphere.

gooddogbenji -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/20/2006 5:43:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticPoet I am one of the Old School of European style domination, the type that was reflected in Professor Higgins teaching of Liza Doolittle, where there was more than just pain and humilation offered but a true molding and forming of your sub into a more enlightened servant and not just a pet. Yeah, because movies have properly portrayed everything, from BDSM to Pearl Harbour. Sorry; I couldn't resist. I find the question very interesting, and look forward to the interesting discussion that will surely ensue. Yours, benji PS: Which house were you trained by? I am of the 5th generation of the grandslaves of the 13th, with crosstraining by the 5th and 8th houses. Edited because the font was too big - just like... anyway, you know what I mean

LaTigresse -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/20/2006 5:52:17 PM)
Okay, granted I am just cruising around waiting for my dinner to be ready......annnnnnnd I saw one of my favourite posters and decided to stalk them.......annnnd read both the original post and the one reply......buuuuuuuuutttttt...... You have GOT to be kidding right?!?!?! Benji, impressive lineage. I think my momma must have served under your grandpa.

celticPoet -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/21/2006 6:36:05 AM)
I know the idea that a Dom can teach more than just obediance and servitude is not the norm, but it is more established than you might think. If you conside the training of a concubine from a slave to a member of court or the training of a mistress in times long past to be acceptable with station in public you can see that there are many different manners of domination. The Marquis de Sade for example followed one based on levels of experience that crossed the boundries of society. So be not quick to dismiss some of the old ways and ideas, they still fit for certian individuals.

MasterWilliam55 -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/21/2006 6:57:46 AM)
They fit for me celticPoet. It's nice to know I'm not alone in this.

celticPoet -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/21/2006 7:03:11 AM)
Thank You Master William, I am glad that there are othgers who still feel that there is a place for a more nurturing touch in the life. Too often it seems that all the attention goes to the stricter and more brutal forms of domination and that is not fair to the many submissives and submissive novices that ceave the whole person growth of the experience and not just the sexual fredom and release.

LordODiscipline -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/21/2006 7:16:04 AM)
You are taking seperate and diverse segments of minor historical attributions and using them as complete examples to justify the thought (not even a belief or a hyposthesis) that they are connected to prove something which has never existed... *It is specious and disingenuously silly.* *These are not "old ways", but something that your fevered imagination has patch work quilted together to impress people who believe such things and to lend yourself veracity.* *The Marquis De Sade was not nurturing - he was a son of a bitch* Concubines (which are an eastern creation - not a "European" one) were not all treated as royalty (very very few were -and- were a class of slave in the traditional sense of severe punishment for minor infraction without much consideration for damage). *What you are doing is touting a 'chivalrous' demeanor for youself and your ilk...* And, if you know the history of chivalry, you understand that it has always been the thing of novels rather than reality -and- never has existed or been what it is purported to be (read Don Quiote for a great parody of it, the novels that spawned it, and a ridicule of the people who extolled it in the 1400's). *I have no issue with you embracing this and extolling a gentler domination - but, don't feed us Bull and tell us it is beef.* ~J quote: ORIGINAL: celticPoet I know the idea that a Dom can teach more than just obediance and servitude is not the norm, but it is more established than you might think. If you conside the training of a concubine from a slave to a member of court or the training of a mistress in times long past to be acceptable with station in public you can see that there are many different manners of domination. The Marquis de Sade for example followed one based on levels of experience that crossed the boundries of society. So be not quick to dismiss some of the old ways and ideas, they still fit for certian individuals.

gooddogbenji -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/21/2006 7:27:29 AM)
LordODiscipline, Don't shit in his pot of "I'm better than you" soup! Yours, benji

LadyHugs -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/21/2006 7:28:57 AM)
Dear celticPoet, Ladies and Gentlemen; I am aware of and do agree, that there is more to the M/s lifestyle than rough treatment, abuse and sexual gratification. Individuals often borrow from overseas, some of the rituals, ceremonies and philosophies if it fits their 'style' and 'comfort' in their relationships. A good portion of civilization is influenced by Europe. I am also of the opinion, that our American icon; Ben Franklin experienced the European debauchery with great interest, to include attending Hells Fire, where they practiced "The Black Mass." Addition to this, a good many individual do cherish their Celtic roots and or Druid roots, incorporating into the American BDSM culture as well. This can be said of any, who draws in their heritage and takes from that and enriches their M/s and or D/s relationship and or life. In the summary though, in my mind's eyes I see; that most individuals I have met want the exact same thing as you have cited in the original post, to which you connect with European Old School Domination. It has become quite evident that European Old School and American School has more things in common then not. Although divided by a common language-our goals still the same--a lovely relationship. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

LordODiscipline -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/21/2006 7:37:13 AM)
*They resemble one another except in the reality that they do not share.\* *Other than that - I see a similarity.* ~J quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHugs It has become quite evident that European Old School and American School has more things in common then not.

LordODiscipline -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/21/2006 7:38:20 AM)
*I am not sure what to say, except that 'You owe me a monitor'.* ~J quote: ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji LordODiscipline, Don't shit in his pot of "I'm better than you" soup! Yours, benji

raiken -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/21/2006 9:20:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticPoet For quite a while I have watched the trends and changes in the world of Dom / Sub - Master / Slave - Daddy / Little Girl and wondered what happened to the age of cherrish and nurture? I am one of the Old School of European style domination, the type that was reflected in Professor Higgins teaching of Liza Doolittle, where there was more than just pain and humilation offered but a true molding and forming of your sub into a more enlightened servant and not just a pet. I am here to seek out those who share that simple philospohy and continue on in a more enloghtened atmosphere. i believe some of the philosophy and belief you mention can mesh nicely in a well rounded healthy d/s or m/s relationship. i hope though, that you are not so pointed off on this particular vector, that it becomes your pathology. The use of "more enlightened" gives me pause...~sigh

Rover -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/21/2006 2:34:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticPoet For quite a while I have watched the trends and changes in the world of Dom / Sub - Master / Slave - Daddy / Little Girl and wondered what happened to the age of cherrish and nurture? I am one of the Old School of European style domination, the type that was reflected in Professor Higgins teaching of Liza Doolittle, where there was more than just pain and humilation offered but a true molding and forming of your sub into a more enlightened servant and not just a pet. I am here to seek out those who share that simple philospohy and continue on in a more enloghtened atmosphere. Old European style domination? Great, this is just like when I was a little kid sitting around the campfire listening to folks tell stories!!! I'm all ears... please do tell me more. John

wandersalone -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/22/2006 2:36:41 AM)
Trying to be helpful - you may want to change Liza to Eliza as there are a lot of film buffs around here. Good luck in your search for 'young nubile women', I have a feeling they are much in demand.... grins, as opposed to us old, un-nubile ones!

celticPoet -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/22/2006 6:48:57 AM)
Well at least I have a spirited subject going. I am not suggesting, like Lordodicipline seems to indicate, that there is one style, component or idea that is superior to other, simply that there are other perceptions. In the life there are no fixed rules or regulations there is constant adaption towhat suits the parties involved. In my quest, life or following I met a number of nice, sophisticated and yes nurturing Dom / Sub relationships in Europe (Scotland, Ireland, Wales, German and Austria) that seems to function quite well by building up instead of tearing down... Sorry if I have offened some of the other members with my ideas, but that is what the world is about our different ideas and needs, desires and goals.

LordODiscipline -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/22/2006 1:30:59 PM)
*I was not suggesting anything of the kind -* I was stating that you were inferring (following along thus far) that all of the minor things you mention do not indicate that there was some "Old Style European BDSM" (Besides the fact that you stated it more than a few times). **There is not anything of the kind. European BDSM's history is rather straight forward like our's in the US* over the last 50 (or, so) years.* European BDSM has a different flavor than ours - but, it is no more based in 'chivalry' (as you would indicate) than is the one here in the US... and, your misrepresentation of history is rather condescending -treating the readers as though they were ignorant. I am not sure who you spoke with or where you went... but, it is obviously something unattached to what little history yuo referenced.** ~J quote: ORIGINAL: celticPoet Well at least I have a spirited subject going. I am not suggesting, like Lordodicipline seems to indicate, that there is one style, component or idea that is superior to other, simply that there are other perceptions. In the life there are no fixed rules or regulations there is constant adaption towhat suits the parties involved. In my quest, life or following I met a number of nice, sophisticated and yes nurturing Dom / Sub relationships in Europe (Scotland, Ireland, Wales, German and Austria) that seems to function quite well by building up instead of tearing down... Sorry if I have offened some of the other members with my ideas, but that is what the world is about our different ideas and needs, desires and goals.

celticPoet -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/24/2006 7:24:48 AM)
How eloquent with words you are. I am impressed. I am also impressed with the degree of absolute certainty with which you state your opinions, and as I understand life opinions and perceptions are all subjective. When one speaks of history in absolutes it makes me wonder about their sources. History and perception of it is based on who was there and what they observed from it, for one who seems so well read you do tend to try and sound like THE only authority. I only wish I was so sure of everything myself, like you are. Obviously, those I SPOKE to were completely misinformed and misguided also. I am pleased that you tolerate those of us who are so misinformed and ignorant of the true facts.

celticPoet -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/24/2006 7:29:40 AM)
Sorry to all, It seems that the superior intelect of LordODicipline has pointed out the fragile nature of my assumptions and that I am but a dreamer and one who is ignorant of the opinions I hold. So for those of you who were kind enough to agree with me I suggest that you too rethink your ideas and conform to tenants of LOD. It was presumptious of me to allow myself an opinion. But opp's I forgot, I am not a Sub afterall and that means I am allowed an opinion that differs from my Master. So forget what I said and follow your own paths in spite of those who disagree.

Lordandmaster -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/24/2006 7:34:01 AM)
This looks like a perfect thread for someone to hijack.

LordODiscipline -> RE: A Little of That European Old School Domination (11/24/2006 8:04:53 AM)
*Spout what you like - but, you are (after all) the poet...* *Lending yourself to free reign in the "literary license" arena might be your forte - but, history and cultures is apparently not.* *You can wax sophist-ically all you desire, but it will not make it any more real or tangibly believeable* *BDSM has never been about imaginary chivalry until the advent of various on line Arthurian role players who tout this "newer gentler BDSM"...* Your playing to the lowest (highest?) common denomination of romanticism might gain adherents, it might satisfy your need for a means of validating your means and your desire ubn how to live your life, but it is a patent falsehood to portray it as you have. You may have met the people you say you did -and- they may have been the way that you describe them - but, that is not 'the norm' (as you describe) and it is definitively not steeped in any history (poetical or chronological) that you would be capable of proving beyond your fervid imagingings. *As I said:* *Don't feed us bull and tell us it is beef.* *We get enough of the on line BS creeping into real life already.* *But, thank you for playing ;)* ~J quote: ORIGINAL: celticPoet How eloquent with words you are. I am impressed. I am also impressed with the degree of absolute certainty with which you state your opinions, and as I understand life opinions and perceptions are all subjective. When one speaks of history in absolutes it makes me wonder about their sources. History and perception of it is based on who was there and what they observed from it, for one who seems so well read you do tend to try and sound like THE only authority. I only wish I was so sure of everything myself, like you are. Obviously, those I SPOKE to were completely misinformed and misguided also. I am pleased that you tolerate those of us who are so misinformed and ignorant of the true facts.

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