RE: blind trust

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julietsierra -> RE: blind trust (11/22/2006 3:57:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW Any dominant that requires this without knowing someone and on a first meeting is an idiot. This isn't something that happens on a first meeting. Any sub that does this doesn't have much sense either. This is a definant red flag and the sub should run away as fast as they can. I love reading about how my Master of 2 1/2 years is an idiot. No no no.. Evidently it's MY Master who is the idiot - and I don't have much sense either. Let's see... February, 2001: We met at a munch. A chance meeting - nothing planned. We'd never spoken on the internet or phone or anything. I didn't know he existed before that moment. We spoke for about 10 minutes. August 2003 - a Saturday: He was at the same event I was. We hit it off. Spent an hour talking..ok, not so much talking as lusting. The place closed at 2 and we spent another 30 minutes trying to extract ourselves from each other's embrace...and other stuff. I gave him my phone number. Wednesday: He called me and we set a date and time to meet. The conversation took about 10 minutes when you count in all the niceties ("how are you, how was your day" stuff) Thursday: We met for dinner. We were both late. Dinner took about an hour in which we didn't talk much. The silence was comfortable. In all honesty, I was interested in how we navigated silence, since to me, that means more than how we converse. It was very comfortable. Mostly during that time, we just kind of undressed each other with our eyes. The check came; he looked at me. I nodded. He paid the bill and we practically raced out of the restaurant to get around the corner to the motel. We played - I never said one word about my limits. He never asked one thing about my safeword. I remembered at the last moment that I was supposed to go swimming with my mom and sister in the morning so I asked him, if he was going to leave marks, to please leave them within the confines of what my bathing suit would cover. He thought I was going to beg off the whole thing. I just laughed, turned around and put my hands on the wall. Yes, our play did involve sex - THANK GOD!! Yes, we were both on the same page as far as condom use went. No, we didn't discuss it. I held a condom out to him that I'd brought (ok, so I brought the entire box. I'm an optimistic soul). He was pulling a condom out of the box he'd brought (Optimistic AND confident. I DO like that in a man!!) (Definition of an optimistic soul: Horny as hell and not the least ashamed of it) We celebrated 3 years together this last August. Yup...Sheer idiocy. I can see it now. I'll have to let him know and I guess we'll have to sit down sometime and discuss all those limits and safewords and do all that negotiation stuff that is evidently so darn important. Oh yes, and we have never spent even 5 minutes online with each other. There were no months of conversation, no in depth late night conversations where we discovered each other's deepest darkest secrets so that when we met, we just knew each other so well. Fact is, we'd talked (counting the time 2 years prior) precisely 2 hours and 10 minutes - ok, not precisely since most of that time was spent in very definitely NOT talking. Were we lucky? Was I? Oh, you bet. But here's the thing. When meeting someone new, if I decide to play, it's MY decision. I walk in knowing that anything can happen. I assess my risks and make my decision accordingly. If I get hurt, it's my issue. I don't put the responsibility for all that other stuff on the dominant. I'm making a decision regarding my own body. He's making a decision regarding his. I have this thing about personal responsibility and I live by it. I don't think anyone can call what I did that day "submission." We played. He was looking at the level of my willingness to put myself in his hands. I was looking at the level of his confidence, expertise and care. Yes, it's experimentation using myself as the "lab rat" but hey, since it's me that's going to be doing the submitting, I wanted to find out if the chemistry that was pretty overpowering from the first moment we'd met - 2 years prior, and again that previous weekend - existed beyond conversation and some dinner. It did. It still does. So...call us both idiots if you have to. We're living in a fool's paradise I guess. The weather's lovely. juliet

crouchingtigress -> RE: blind trust (11/22/2006 5:12:21 AM)
It really depends. some times i have followed my heart and it has turned better then i could have ever imagined... and sometimes it was not so good. thing is, you have to be comfortable with your decisions, and you have to know yourself well enough to know that if you do just dive in the ocean and you get pulled into the undertow and spit back upon the shore, are you gonna be ok? you are the only one knows you the way you do.. there is no rule book. me, i have always been a deep diver, but no matter whether i ride a wave or take a tumble, i always know that i am the only one in charge of my own destiny...so i cant have regrets.... it works for me.

juliaoceania -> RE: blind trust (11/22/2006 9:07:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Are potential slaves and subs really expected to go without hard limits and/or a safe word the first time they meet a dom? I've always thought that took a great deal of trust, which only develops over time. Why do most doms expect blind trust and are turned off when a sub won't give it? I still have limits and a few codewords or safewords. I do not know how other people do it, but that is the way we did it. Safewords or the lack of them have nothing to do with trust in my opinion, they are a way of communication during specific types of scenes (for us anyways). As for limits, I am one of those people that thinks that most people have limits, perhaps they have not found someone that pushed them to their limit, but most people have a limit. If a dominant expected me not to have a safeword or a limit he would be shit out of luck looking for a new play partner. But that is just me.

diamonddreamlove -> RE: blind trust (11/23/2006 11:10:19 AM)
I have no such thing as blind trust. I trust my Dom and i obey Him because He has earned that trust as i have earned His. We started slow and continue to build a relationship that gets better daily. Blind trust is something i can not imagine having and would not recommend it. There again i believe even in a second and third meeting having a way of staying safe. I don't worry about that now with Sir because the one thing I have learned about Him that will always stay with me is that He will never allow me to be hurt. He is and will be conscious of my safety and will not be pleased if i were to put myself in a dangerous position as He tells me i am of great value to Him. diamond

Tikkiee -> RE: blind trust (11/23/2006 3:36:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Are potential slaves and subs really expected to go without hard limits and/or a safe word the first time they meet a dom? I've always thought that took a great deal of trust, which only develops over time. Why do most doms expect blind trust and are turned off when a sub won't give it? I HAD some hard limits that just kind of melted away through our time together. [&:] He is slowly picking away at all the rest that may be hiding under the surface. As for blind trust. Impossible for me. In fact it is almost impossible for me to trust at all, but that's a different story [:)] I do know that he would never intentionally hurt me; and I do know that he would literally destroy anyone else who attempted to. In that respect, I guess I do trust him. Funny thing is, he never asks me if I trust him. He always asks 'do you think I am going to hurt you?" My answer is always no.

sublizzie -> RE: blind trust (11/23/2006 6:50:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists It is becoming more and more obvious to me the individuals that spend active time out in the various communities... they seem to avoid the assessments that are based on the internet gene pool..... the sad fact is.. the internet gene pool is rather low as far as any reliability to judge. Sad for those that must make their assessements based on this pool... for seldom are their preceptions going to be of any realistic value of what is out in the face to face community. But learning on-line seems safer so that's where many people start out. What we find here can be very, very scary so the idea of venturing out into the real world where things can really happen can be too scary for someone to venture out into real time and realize that things are different there. I've met a few people in "real time" who are idiots, but they're much easier to spot now that I've met a lot of real people in the community. But it was very difficult for me to initially dip my toe in the pool of real-time.

bellami -> RE: blind trust (11/23/2006 8:33:52 PM)
I just want to add something about meeting someone.... I've only been back online barely a month and it is truly amazing how fast people expect another to "hook up" in just a few emails or phone calls. To me it's not only stupid, it's dangerous. Anyone can be a "charmer" online, on the phone or in person. Hasn't anyone ever heard of John Wayne Gayce? He was a real charmer. Or was it Ted Bundy... Nothing can compare to meeting face to face, using your instincts and for godsake, your common sense - somewhere Very Public and Take A Friend. Hell, get a backround check if it's someone you're seriously interested in. Any sub who doesn't understand that is beyond foolish and any Dom that objects to it is not only insecure but most likely inexperienced as well. Bella

RedSavageSlave -> RE: blind trust (11/23/2006 10:42:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bellami I just want to add something about meeting someone.... I've only been back online barely a month and it is truly amazing how fast people expect another to "hook up" in just a few emails or phone calls. To me it's not only stupid, it's dangerous. Anyone can be a "charmer" online, on the phone or in person. Hasn't anyone ever heard of John Wayne Gayce? He was a real charmer. Or was it Ted Bundy... Nothing can compare to meeting face to face, using your instincts and for godsake, your common sense - somewhere Very Public and Take A Friend. Hell, get a backround check if it's someone you're seriously interested in. Any sub who doesn't understand that is beyond foolish and any Dom that objects to it is not only insecure but most likely inexperienced as well. Bella And do you believe that Gayce's and Bundy's victims when meeting face to face knew they were in the presence of a serial killer? I always hate when people use such extreme examples to prove a point that is not proven by using these examples. (if that didnt make sense...chalk it up to my being awake for 23 hours and really needing some sleep here)

bellami -> RE: blind trust (11/24/2006 11:27:54 AM)
RedSavageSlave... No need to get your panties in a bunch... <smile> The comment is made out of sincere concern for anyone meeting an unknown person whether it was D/s or not. I use extreme examples because they will stay in our minds where a casual comment will not. It is Reality. Reality can be a shocking experience; it can also be just what we are looking for. However, if we take time to always approach it from the Reality standpoint it lessens the probability of disappointment as well as finding ourselves in a situation we don't know how to get out of. One thing I learned in D/s circles RT is Safety First. Always. Taking time to stop the hormones and tell ourselves to Step Into The Real World a moment is just a reality check. Foremost in everyone's mind should be how anonymous the Net is, anonymity breeds bullsh*t and fantasies. Reality is so much different, too many people have had to learn the hard way about that. I lived in Florida for a time and was a "safe house" for anyone who needed to get out of something. It never ceased to amaze me that the most intelligent people did the dumbest things and got caught where they had no business being in the first place if they had remembered that Reality check. As for Bundy and the like, I believe some must have known but wouldn't/couldn't believe that charm was not for real and others were too enthralled by his charm to know the difference until it was too late. I know I have incredible "radar" but can be as dumb as the next person. Moral of story: always always Listen to your Radar. Bella

xBullx -> RE: blind trust (11/24/2006 12:08:12 PM)
Tal, I'm curious; I see my points were actually covered. I have been to the BDSM play parties. My compliments on the skills displayed by many. I would like to point out that I remember that the whole place had a general safe word. I would thought that would be helpful for those just meeting, others around to ensure safety and credibility within the lifestyle. As a Gorean, I would never really want a girl that didn't trust me, so I have always made sure for hers and my safety and sanity we have points of limit. I will say that in the arts you have versus my TPE it is more about physical safety in a scene for the BDSM "safe word" versus the consensual slave I face. Both have importance though, I would never want to harm the mind body or spirit of a girl. I like building not destroying. I hope I stayed clear and inoffensive, I wasn't trying to speak for anyone, merely stating my views. I'm really trying to be a good sport. Live well, Bull

Kalira -> RE: Blind trust? (11/24/2006 12:19:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amayos quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Are potential slaves and subs really expected to go without hard limits and/or a safe word the first time they meet a dom? I've always thought that took a great deal of trust, which only develops over time. Why do most doms expect blind trust and are turned off when a sub won't give it? From my own experience, trust and obedience depends upon the level of intimacy and discussion shared during or prior to one's physical audience with another. The meeting of the minds is the most important meeting of all; how long this takes is dependant upon the two souls involved. If both dispense with the facades and embrace responsibility for their actions, complete dominance and surrender can happen relatively quickly. Those who would rather skip the process of determining compatibility, worth and authenticity do so at their own risk. Numerous prospective servants don't get past the first few exchanges with me. I am quite particular about what I seek and for many the trails to me often run cold before long. Regardless of age, beauty or "wisdom," I take it upon myself to protect them by not offering that easy, ephemeral tinsel to get what I want in the short-term. This process usually takes time if you care about it. Stated with much better clarity than mine. Perfectly said Amayos.

Kalira -> RE: blind trust (11/24/2006 12:24:44 PM)
quote: I've only been back online barely a month and it is truly amazing how fast people expect another to "hook up" in just a few emails or phone calls. To me it's not only stupid, it's dangerous I disagree. Many people can get an instinctive feel about a person from just a few emails and phone calls. I know I do, and I am neither stupid nor danger prone. quote: Nothing can compare to meeting face to face, using your instincts and for godsake, your common sense - somewhere Very Public and Take A Friend. Hell, get a backround check if it's someone you're seriously interested in. *Any sub who doesn't understand that is beyond foolish and any Dom that objects to it is not only insecure but most likely inexperienced as well.* And may I ask what you base such a generalization on?

Kalira -> RE: blind trust (11/24/2006 12:26:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx Tal, I'm curious; I see my points were actually covered. I have been to the BDSM play parties. My compliments on the skills displayed by many. I would like to point out that I remember that the whole place had a general safe word. I would thought that would be helpful for those just meeting, others around to ensure safety and credibility within the lifestyle. As a Gorean, I would never really want a girl that didn't trust me, so I have always made sure for hers and my safety and sanity we have points of limit. I will say that in the arts you have versus my TPE it is more about physical safety in a scene for the BDSM "safe word" versus the consensual slave I face. Both have importance though, I would never want to harm the mind body or spirit of a girl. I like building not destroying. I hope I stayed clear and inoffensive, I wasn't trying to speak for anyone, merely stating my views. I'm really trying to be a good sport. Live well, Bull LMAO spill it Master xbullx I can feel you grinding your teeth through the computer [8D]

RedSavageSlave -> RE: blind trust (11/24/2006 12:29:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bellami RedSavageSlave... No need to get your panties in a bunch... <smile> <grinning> you think I wear them?? How quaint... LOL The comment is made out of sincere concern for anyone meeting an unknown person whether it was D/s or not. I use extreme examples because they will stay in our minds where a casual comment will not. It is Reality. Reality can be a shocking experience; it can also be just what we are looking for. However, if we take time to always approach it from the Reality standpoint it lessens the probability of disappointment as well as finding ourselves in a situation we don't know how to get out of. I know what you meant to get across but reality is NOT that if you dont use common sense someone is going to murder you.. Reality is you may get your emotions toyed with, you may be hurt or injured in some way..and yes a very SMALL percentage of people get into some very serious situations..but by using extreme examples, it is more likely you will be met with eyerolls and a shake of the head. To be effective in your warnings, you should be more reality based than the extremes. However, and please understand.. I DO know what you meant to get across and I applaud your willingness to keep others safe. :) Peace... the Savage One Moral of story: always always Listen to your Radar. Agreed ~ Bella

xBullx -> RE: blind trust (11/24/2006 1:56:58 PM)
Just smirks a good bit!

theRose4U -> RE: blind trust (11/24/2006 2:26:39 PM)
quote: Why do most doms expect blind trust and are turned off when a sub won't give it? Because they learned WIITWD from porn, because they're online trolls, because they think you're stupid, and the real answer...because they aren't worth your time. Trust takes time. Blind trust I guess can be developed but it's usually after a period of testing and trust development. A foundation on which one can rely even though they're thinking...man's nuts but I guess he knows best.

theRose4U -> RE: blind trust (11/24/2006 2:41:17 PM)
quote: Asshole in a black leather vest. (credit to boymeat of TES for the paraphrase) I like this phrase A LOT.

reofbl -> RE: blind trust (11/25/2006 1:11:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Are potential slaves and subs really expected to go without hard limits and/or a safe word the first time they meet a dom? I've always thought that took a great deal of trust, which only develops over time. Why do most doms expect blind trust and are turned off when a sub won't give it? I'm one of those who goes for blind trust. I used to be rather disappointed when I didn't receive it. There's something so romantic, to have a slave surrendered to you.. to hold her life in your hands, to know she'd trust and love you despite all else. That idea of unconidtional love, obidience to the end of the world.. it is the most romantic thing I could ever think of. Then, reality bites you in the ass. If a slave gives her life to you, blindly, she's risking a lot. In a way, that's part of the beauty- if it's actually done. However, most aren't willing to do this. For a slave, who wouldn't mind being completely controlled, it's like throwing some dice.. if they get a high enough roll, they have a great relationship. If it's not, something absolutely devistating could happen to them. I don't expect blind trust anymore. No- that's a poor way of saying it. I never expected it. What I mean to say is that I don't even hope for blind trust anymore. It's a fantascy, and, sadly, something I doubt I'll ever encounter. For anyone who doesn't see the fantascy, yet has some semblence of dominance in them, consider.. A girl comes to your door on a cold and stormy night. She's beautiful, yet naked and shivering. She walks up with a look of absolute trust in her eyes, staring into yours, telling you, "I am yours. I love you with all my heart, body, mind, and soul. I will be yours, forever more. I will trust you, always, and in all things." She embraces you warmly, several tears in her eyes as she clings on firmly, as though for her very existience. Could you not love such a girl? Would she not become part of you, not so much another person anymore, though yourself, as your interests and person are so closely tied together? It's too easy, for those who come to this lifestyle with that in mind, to seek it, rabidly. To answer the orginial question, no, this is not expected of you by the community, but it is by the individual who longs for it, should he be true. It is not something you have to give, nor is anything else. This lifestyle is entirely your choice. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have a meaning in the first place.

julietsierra -> RE: blind trust (11/25/2006 6:41:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bellami I just want to add something about meeting someone.... I've only been back online barely a month and it is truly amazing how fast people expect another to "hook up" in just a few emails or phone calls. To me it's not only stupid, it's dangerous. Anyone can be a "charmer" online, on the phone or in person. Hasn't anyone ever heard of John Wayne Gayce? He was a real charmer. Or was it Ted Bundy... Nothing can compare to meeting face to face, using your instincts and for godsake, your common sense - somewhere Very Public and Take A Friend. Hell, get a backround check if it's someone you're seriously interested in. Any sub who doesn't understand that is beyond foolish and any Dom that objects to it is not only insecure but most likely inexperienced as well. Bella Wow...I did the internet relationship thing for a little while. Thank goodness I learned my lesson regarding THAT. Eventually, I realized that when I was looking I didn't want long, involved internet conversations. In the words of a dominant around these parts, "all that clackity clack doesn't tell you a thing" and in the words of another dominant I highly respect, "you aren't real until we meet" (he says no one's "valid" until he actually sees them face to face.) All of that just made the perfect sense to me, so, when I decided to meet someone, I made sure it was sooner rather than later. To me, talking ad nauseum online is a real good way to get attached to a fantasy, and that only means I'm falling for my imagination, so no thank you on long protracted conversations. Either meet me now or move on. My general rules for meeting people were to: 1) make sure the meets happened in my own "backyard." I did leave my geographic area once. That time, I took a friend. I was glad I did. The meet didn't work out, but we had a great time on the drive there and back. AND we stopped on the way home to visit a mutual friend who'd moved to Ohio that we all missed very much, so the trip was great!! 2) Meet in public places. I generally chose the same place over and over again, because that way, the people there knew me. Sometimes, it was kind of funny when the wait staff would start questioning the person I was meeting, but the overwhelming feeling was that I had all these people watching over me - even if, logically, I didn't. (Coincidentally, when I met my Master, we didn't follow this rule, so even my "rules" end up being more like "guidelines" than "rules.") 3) If someone wanted to come in to town from a different area of the country, they were responsible for their own transportation, lodging, etc. I tried the safe call thing, but soon realized that most of the time, the people I would have called were out on the town themselves and so, not available. I DID call my g/f the day I met my Master, but that's just cause I was so excited about the whole thing. And I called her when I got home, but again, it wasn't to assure her I was safe. It was cause I was loopy and giddy from the whole experience. Don't know if that constitutes a safe call or not. I never met people at a munch. I kind of took the view of the munch as kind of my "family." I wasn't going to introduce someone I didn't know to the people who did know me, because, even if in my own mind, there was this tacit "referencing" going on by doing that, and I didn't want to be the person that referenced someone I didn't know. If that person turned out to be someone I couldn't respect, I didn't want his entry to things public to rest with me. And I have NEVER done a background check on anyone I've ever met. I absolutely do not share information such as where I live or my home phone number with the people I meet. Rarely do they have my first name. Even more rarely do they have my last name. I am known around these parts as juliet and that's how I introduce myself to others. Many of my closest friends don't even call me by my given name, so if someone were to do a background check on me, they wouldn't find a thing. Over the years, some have learned my given name and STILL don't use it. When I was meeting dominants that I thought I might be interested in, I presumed that to be the case with them as well. I simply relied on whether I felt the connection between us was strong enough to warrant getting to know them better, and went from there. It's a strange concept called dating. I know...it's SO old fashioned!! Anyway, call me stupid, call me silly, call me foolish. I like the way I do things. And so far, I've never met a Ted I didn't like (my brother's name is Ted). Connecting bad relationship situations to mass murderers just to make the point that people need to be reasonable in their expectations when meeting others is pretty low in my book juliet

eyesopened -> RE: blind trust (11/25/2006 1:20:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Sorry for using the wrong wording. What I meant was, most of the doms I have talked to only want subs with no hard limits and no safeword. When I tell them I have hard limits and use a safe word, they aren't interested. And how is that a problem???? How lucky you are that you got past the compatibility issue straight off. Why would You want the "no limits no safewords" Doms to be interested? In the defense of "most Doms" i think many are tired of a whole laundry list of things a sub won't do, as if she/he is saying "i will be submissive as long as i stay totally in control" and i think that happens more often than we would like to believe. Relationships aren't magical and they aren't an entitlement. i sometimes wonder if we deny ourselves the occassional pleasurable moment as we frantically search for a perfect lifetime.

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