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RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/21/2006 3:07:08 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		I sometimes feel like I've just walked into the middle of a two person conversation.....

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http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/21/2006 3:18:35 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm confused by your use of "shirk of"?  Did you mean "shirk off"?

Yes, it was a typo.

quote:

I wasn't saying "It's ok to be rude" I was saying "Rude people are everywhere, don't expect otherwise."

I do appreciate that distinction.


quote:

Most of the people I *know* are normal people.  They have their quirks and mishaps.  Most of us are polite most of the time.  But in my years in the scene and in "normal" life, I've bumped against plenty who wouldn't know what polite behavior was if it smashed into their head.


Maybe it's because I havent bumped against that many scenesters. I guess I should count my blessings.
I appreciate your clarifying that your intention was not to say that "This is normal" so much as you were saying "This exists here and in other places as well." It does seem, sometimes, like people come to the complaint threads with a "People suck" attitude and it just doesn't mesh with my world view.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify.
H

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I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/21/2006 3:37:57 PM   
Lieren


Posts: 29
Joined: 11/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

If a slave is unowned, is she really a slave?


Does anyone but her (and the person she considers her Owner, regardless of the length of time or terms of their agreement) have the right to decide the answer to that question? 

Lieren

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/21/2006 3:43:39 PM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I'm not sure I'll go along with "judgement" lacking a fixed definition.


There is a difference between the word "judgment", taken out of context, and the word "judgmental" when used in the context of sexual morality.

A "judgment" is a decision based on the best information available, or a deliberation made after due consideration.  But the word "judgmental" carries overtones of personal or sexual morality being imposed on others, usually to their detriment.

Proper use of language requires both denotation and connotation, as I'm sure you know.   

Have a nice day!

--M

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/21/2006 3:55:43 PM   
AlexAussieSub


Posts: 70
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline 		If a "Domme" says this, chances are she hasn't got much experience and isn't really worth seeing anyway. Be happy that she wrote that because now you know not to waste any more time on her.

(in reply to ChastemanFriday)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/21/2006 4:16:18 PM   
ChastemanFriday


Posts: 6
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline 		You guys really made me feel better, and there was some good advice in there too ... thank you!

For what it's worth, she clearly was bad news, and I'm so glad she showed her colors so early, even if it was by displaying a lack of Tolerance (over such minor things ... I wouldn't mind if I was 'out there' but I'm really very tame in my tastes).

I feel bouyed and renewed, faith in kinksters recovered, naivety still intact, thanks again.

CF

(in reply to AlexAussieSub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/21/2006 5:30:03 PM   
SamKeithsslave


Posts: 322
Joined: 11/7/2006
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

If a slave is unowned, is she really a slave?


Hmmmm............... if a tree falls in the forrest and no-one is there to see it, does it make a sound?

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/21/2006 7:09:12 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		You have to understand that we've been debating certain semantic questions endlessly--like: if a slave is unowned, is she really a slave; what's the difference between a submissive and a slave; I am a dom, how do I become a master--and this latest spat over the "true" meaning of the word "judgment" strikes me as yet another incarnation of the trend.

Here's a reference to what I'm talking about:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_647976/mpage_1/tm.htm#647976

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lieren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

If a slave is unowned, is she really a slave?


Does anyone but her (and the person she considers her Owner, regardless of the length of time or terms of their agreement) have the right to decide the answer to that question?

(in reply to Lieren)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/21/2006 8:26:12 PM   
Lieren


Posts: 29
Joined: 11/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You have to understand that we've been debating certain semantic questions endlessly--like: if a slave is unowned, is she really a slave; what's the difference between a submissive and a slave; I am a dom, how do I become a master--and this latest spat over the "true" meaning of the word "judgment" strikes me as yet another incarnation of the trend.

Here's a reference to what I'm talking about:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_647976/mpage_1/tm.htm#647976



Ah!  Now I see :) I was a bit surprised to see you ask that question, actually.  Now I understand completely... and I couldn't agree with you more!

Lieren

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 4:43:29 AM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Judgemental is a good thing.  Stop using "judgemental" like it's a bad word- it's not.


LA,
This is one time I have to disagree with you.  If you'd like to be "judgemental", feel free to look in the mirror and be as judgemental as you'd like.  If you'd like to be "judgemental" of me, I think you'll have to take a number and stand in line as there seem to be plenty already standing there ahead of you!

Personally, I dislike being judgemental and when I find myself being that way with others, I make a concerted effort to change that behavior in myself.  Having lived in neighborhoods where people were judged by the neighbors on very superficial matters, from the color of their skin, how clean their car was, the labels on their clothing, to how well manicured their lawn was, and so on,  the entire subject makes me very uncomfortable and is a bright red flag with me.

- pixel

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Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 6:37:15 AM   
Renorei


Posts: 75
Joined: 11/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChastemanFriday

right-wing boors shouting YOU SICKEN ME whenever they see people doing their thing.



Don't automatically equate close-mindedness to Republicans, please.  I happen to be a Republican, and am very openminded, along with all of my Republican friends.  A more appropriate word choice would have been 'radical extremists'.  Democrats can be just as close-minded as Republicans.  Ever been to a PETA protest?

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.  On to the issue at hand.

Albatross is right.  There are rude people in every community, so the BDSM community is surely no different.  It's a shame that she was so inconsiderate, a much more polite e-mail would have been sufficient.  I've gotten quite a few unwanted propositions since my brief time at this website, and I've done my best to decline politely .  But, I guess we can't expect that from everybody.  Though you are right, it does seem a little contradictory that someone who is into something so kinky as BDSM would have the nerve to judge someone else for their fetishes.  Oh well.  Such is life. 

(in reply to ChastemanFriday)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 8:28:50 AM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Based on this lady's behaviour, she is in the wrong place.

This saddens me. What should we think when people who come here, actively looking, express themselves like skinhead right-wing boors shouting YOU SICKEN ME whenever they see people doing their thing.

I doubt that Tolerance can be taught to people like this self-proclaimed Motherly-like woman, but we'd all be so much better off if she just accepted her vanilla-ness and left us alone.

Thanks for reading this, I hope your views are supportive, as I expect better of this community.


Wow thanks for being the latest newbie that tells us how our kink should be. Would hate to think that I'd been a dominant for 10 years doing it wrong for so long.
Yes her approach leaves something to be desired but likely her thoughts (seeing as you left the full context out) were that it's all about your fetishes and kink...yet you claim submission.

I don't have any interest in nappies, golden showers, scat, and on more than one occasion I've seen things on here that I've added to my list of big fat no's right after.
I find the idea that your kink, being gross TO ME (or any other individual), is somehow broad based persecution kind of arrogant on your part. I don't force my kink on you, please respect the same limits. Words like always, never, and persecution are exaggeration words to draw attention. I guess this time it worked but I don't know that this was the best way to advertise yourself.

**Edited to add** I'm not the one that replied to him but what she lacked in class she made up for in clarity.

Remember the troll emails we've all gotten.
"Oh mistress I'll kneel to you and do whatever you want...as long as it's x,y & z kinks that not only squick you but are all about me" (infantileism is VERY VERY much work for the "dominant" personally I think it's the baby in charge but I digress).
She says"not my thing better luck next time"
"Oh but I'll do anything as long as I get to be chained 24/7 neked in a diaper"
"Nope not my thing"
"You're no dominant EVERY mistress SHOULD want this I'm a no limits ___"
GAG you catch my point.

< Message edited by theRose4U -- 11/24/2006 8:48:23 AM >

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 8:33:12 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Hmmmm, your kink squicked her out, and she said so...what exactly is the problem?


That she had to be abusive and judgmental about it.

Experienced people in BDSM need to learn to deal with their squicks with a little less bombastic melodrama and a little more courtesy and consideration.  A person's feelings are already more than bruised enough when they are rejected due to incompatible kink.  You don't need to babble on about how "sickened" you are by scenes or ideas which turn them on or have been fun for them in the past.

--M


It seems to me that we do not know the whole story, and this person posting this made a few statements that I took exception to that I will highlight below

quote:

Secondly, this 'YOU SICKEN ME' (we're talking about nothing more than mentioning a bit of roleplay, I mentioned baby, maid and schoolgirl) attitood is what makes BDSM such a forlorn place. The same bitch who makes such stupid remarks reflects exactly the problem we have with how vanilla society sees us.

Based on this lady's behaviour, she is in the wrong place.




First he calls this person a bitch, and then he makes this categorial statement that she does not belong here.

I do not know what the situation is that caused her to say she was sickened by this kink, but I am sickened by this kink too... I guess I do not belong here either. I am not judgmental about people that do this kink, whatever floats their boats.. but the assumption on his part that she would be into this because she likes the motherly persona in her dominance is a stretch on his part too. He is not accepting her intolerance of his kink, he is intolerant too.

If you ask me she was direct, perhaps she had a knee jerk reaction, perhaps she had never encountered someone that wanted this before. Hardly a reason to come into a public forum and call her names, say she does not belong here.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Morrigel)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 9:08:54 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

If a slave is unowned, is she really a slave?


Even before there was ever a collar around my neck; even before he ever began calling me slave; even before I ever came to understand, accept and embrace that mentality, service and life..

I was a slave to fashion.

So, my answer to your question would be a resounding "YES!!"

juliet

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 9:10:11 AM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
First he calls this person a bitch, and then he makes this categorial statement that she does not belong here.


Sorry, but the words she used were "you sicken me".  "Bitch" is something she simply had coming, after that.  And if there is a world in which "you sicken me" is an appropriate thing to say to someone with whom you have been exchanging positive emails or negotiating for a D/S relationship, I really don't know where that planet is located--and I don't want to live there.

I agree with the OP that people who are childishly rude when they run into a squick do not belong here.  The BDSM community is for consenting adults.  Not nasty, hateful children.  We cannot exist as a community if everyone suffers from bombastically rude Kink Narcissism--where their own views/desires are good/normal/ok and everyone who isn't perfectly compatible with those views/desires is a sickening pervert.

Just for the sake of perspective:  I have had men and women express MANY needs and wishes over the years which were not my personal cup o' kink.  Even leaving aside the enormous number of male and female dominants who ask me to step outside the role that gives me pleasure, and sub to them instead, I also get a lot of requests from submissives which I cannot fulfill, or which troubled me a great deal the first few times I heard them.

I have had men beg me in the first email to castrate them--with steel, with obsidian, even with my teeth!  I have had women tell me that they needed help re-enacting a rape or a torture they were subjected to years ago, often as children or teenagers.  I have had countless people request play that involved scat, urine, blood, or the leaving of permanent marks.  I have had people describe role-playing scenarios which were violent or incestuous, and just last night I chatted with a man who was honest enough to disclose a past conviction for possession of forbidden pornography, which has permanently marred his record.

When I am not compatible with someone, or I do not wish to participate in someone's kink, I try to decline or bow out politely.  If they genuinely mean me no harm, I treat them with the courtesy and the compassion that their good intentions have earned.  I feel no obligation to affirm or participate in scenes which are not my personal cuppa, but I am also not in this community or this life to pass petty judgment on people.

This is a hard life in many ways.  The world is cold, unfriendly, and hostile to people whose desires are not considered "normal".  There is a lot of condemnation, a lot of fear and hostility, a lot of abuse.  This is why I agree with the OP that as a member of this community, I am NOT entitled to be as childishly rude and easily offended by kink as a vanilla person.  My own desires are kinky and unusual, in the eyes of many "normal" folks; since I need and want tolerance from others, I have to learn to give others the compassion and courtesy I hope to receive--even when someone does not want to play my favorite games.

--M

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 11:00:11 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I just disagree, I have had people email me that I was disgusting for calling my Dom "Daddy". I have had dominants tell me I was sick because I enjoyed being beaten. So what! Their opinion, they are allowed one. I tell you what I have not done, started a thread calling these people names. I laugh and then delete. Two emails sent back and forth do not make a dynamic, nor does it necessarily mean that he can dump every do-me kink he has on her.

I do not like seeing people called names. Neither of us know the content of these emails that went back and forth, you are not privy to them, and you are the one that stands in "judgment" of this person you have no knowledge of,  taking the OP at face value. I tend not to take people at face value who throw words like "Bitch" around like they are no big deal. I find it offensive to be honest. I do not think anyone has that coming, my opinion.

Now perhaps you know the OP and have read all his emails, know the course of the conversations that took place and have all the necessary information that makes name calling ok in your mind, I just don't see it that way. I can see how this scenario may have played out in a very different manner than the one proposed by the OP. I do not know how many times men exchange an email with you ONCE and then they think it is ok to ask for every kink they have in the book. It is inappropriate in my mind to send a list of kinks the second email and then have the expectation that your kinks will be embraced warmly.. not in my reality. I tended not to reply at all to men that have behaved in this manner, and then these men whine about that! Can't please some people.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Morrigel)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 11:08:46 AM   
Lieren


Posts: 29
Joined: 11/19/2006
Status: offline 		I would like to offer a simple, "I'm sorry that hurt you, regardless of how she meant it." to the OP.

_____________________________

~Lieren~ -- Happy in my Perceived Indecision :P

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 1:48:45 PM   
WetHotGoddess


Posts: 128
Joined: 5/18/2006
Status: offline 		why is everyone so fucking sensitive?  I wager a guess that the OP was pressing his fetish until she finally had enough and said YOU SICKEN ME. 
So what if he's offended?  Are we all to be the keepers of all other's feelings?  I believe in free speech and if it offends, then it does.  No one is fatally wounded from being judged, perhaps unjustly.  I know.  I am offended QUITE often, and guess what? I DEAL WITH IT without posting a damn topic about it.

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Your opinion is very important to us. Please hold for the next available representative.

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(in reply to Lieren)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 2:02:00 PM   
Petronius


Posts: 289
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Let's put this in perspective.

Nobody got their genitals removed. Nobody had their house firebombed. Priests of some weird cult did not lead a lynching. Nobody went to prison.Nobody suffered forced psychiatric hospitalization. Nobody lost their life savings in a divorce action when an embittered spouse yelled "filthy pervert" to a judge who agreed.

Were the actions nasty? Yup. Uncalled for? Yup.

But there were infinitely small potatoes compared to the real actions of those who really do "persecute the BDSM community."

(in reply to Lieren)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Mother's love? When we are as bad as those who pers... - 11/24/2006 2:06:11 PM   
AuburnLady40


Posts: 20
Joined: 7/29/2004
Status: offline 		I've found that people who tend to be judgemental towards others are simply attempting to justify their own misunderstood feelings/actions.  It tends to make them feel better about themselves if they feel they are somehow superior to another (at least in their own mind).

I say blow off this person who hurt your feelings, whether or not they "approve" of your choices, matters not in how you live your life as they are not a part of your life.  If you're looking for support, find like minded individuals.  But then I'd have to ask, how will you grow and learn if you're surrounded by the same?


(in reply to WetHotGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 40
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