Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs

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FirmhandKY -> Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 7:14:22 PM)
Short version: I have found that, in general, femsubs tend to be more beautiful, more intelligent and more mentally healthy than the average vanilla population of women. Agree, or disagree? Why? Long version: I've been thinking of this for quite a while, but absent any "hard" facts or proof, have withheld comment. But ... it's Thanksgiving, and I'm in a bit of a philosophical mood, and my treasure will be in my arms again tomorrow, so I decided to just go ahead and post on the subject. I've read a lot of the "why are fem subs (fat, ugly, mal-adjusted: take your pick)" threads over several years here, and on other sites. Based purely on my own experiences, I just have to say that I think that all the posters who believe this have it absolutely backwards. Whilst there is certainly a range of "beauty" and intellect in the world, and in any sub-culture, I think that, on average, the women interested in bdsm and/or D/s are brighter, better adjusted, and lovelier than the average population of women. I do not take this position lightly, nor is it based on any rose-colored view based on my subjective belief in treasure's intelligence and beauty (both of which she has in spades). Among other things, I am an entrepreneur. One of the ideas I had several years ago was for a "dating" review website, because of the growth of the net in terms of use of it for personal connections. I even started a website, and had people lined up to write articles, conduct survey's and all kinds of stuff concerning this area, but personal demands and other business interests prevented me from going forward with that particular business. But ... it did give me a motivation to think about a lot of things, and to attempt some sort of systematic review of a lot of factors (such as the number of women versus the number of men on dating websites). As a consequence, I've spent a fair amount of time reviewing profiles of men and women. By far, I'd say that I've been much more impressed with the overall "quality" of women that I have seen on bdsm sites, such as CM. I'm open to suggestions as to why this seems to be so. FirmKY

Tikkiee -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 7:21:05 PM)
Not sure, though I will say that many of the women who I have become acquainted with here SEEM to be more intelligent and beautiful. I think though that it's because they are more in touch with themselves and more apt to display certain things to the outside world. I have come across some in the vanilla sense that are afraid to show that they are confident, self-assured, intelligent...many Dominant females and submissive/slaves to me don't seem to have that hang-up. In my eyes, that makes them more beautiful and intelligent.

slavejali -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 7:30:50 PM)
I hope this thread gets as many more more responses than the fat,old, ugly, dysfuntional ones do[:)]

Aileen68 -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 7:33:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Short version: I have found that, in general, femsubs tend to be more beautiful, more intelligent and more mentally healthy than the average vanilla population of women. Agree, or disagree? Why? That's because it takes a lot of confidence to pass control to someone else. Confidence is sexy.

SamKeithsslave -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 7:33:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Short version: I have found that, in general, femsubs tend to be more beautiful, more intelligent and more mentally healthy than the average vanilla population of women. Agree, or disagree? Why? I guess I would have to know what your own personal view on "beautiful" was before agreeing or disagreeing. As for the intelligence side of things I tend to agree as making the decision to become a sub/slave is not something anyone takes on (or should take on) lightly and most would have looked into what the lifestyle of being a sub/slave would involve before embarking on it completely. There are also those that try it on for size, they do so intelligently to ensure this is what they want. Mental health is a sticky one and not one that is easily determined, I'd not like to commit to either agreeing or not at this stage. Long version: I've read a lot of the "why are fem subs (fat, ugly, mal-adjusted: take your pick)" threads over several years here, and on other sites. Based purely on my own experiences, I just have to say that I think that all the posters who believe this have it absolutely backwards. Whilst there is certainly a range of "beauty" and intellect in the world, and in any sub-culture, I think that, on average, the women interested in bdsm and/or D/s are brighter, better adjusted, and lovelier than the average population of women. I need clarification. Are you saying that those who ask why fem-subs are fat/ugly/mal-adjusted are 'backwards' because you think most fem-subs are not fat/uly/mal-adjusted OR because you think that there are some fat/ugly/mal-adjusted fem-subs, but just not as many as these posters make out there to be? Which in turn again has me asking what your version of 'beauty' is? Because as you have so correctly stated there is a range of 'beauty' and what people consider to be 'beauty' in the world. Can you clarify, thanks. I do not take this position lightly, nor is it based on any rose-colored view based on my subjective belief in treasure's intelligence and beauty (both of which she has in spades). Among other things, I am an entrepreneur. One of the ideas I had several years ago was for a "dating" review website, because of the growth of the net in terms of use of it for personal connections. I even started a website, and had people lined up to write articles, conduct survey's and all kinds of stuff concerning this area, but personal demands and other business interests prevented me from going forward with that particular business. But ... it did give me a motivation to think about a lot of things, and to attempt some sort of systematic review of a lot of factors (such as the number of women versus the number of men on dating websites). As a consequence, I've spent a fair amount of time reviewing profiles of men and women. By far, I'd say that I've been much more impressed with the overall "quality" of women that I have seen on bdsm sites, such as CM. By 'quality' do you mean the combination of beauty, brains and mental health? I'm open to suggestions as to why this seems to be so. Happy to do so, just need clarification, thanks [:)] FirmKY

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 7:37:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Short version: I have found that, in general, femsubs tend to be more beautiful, more intelligent and more mentally healthy than the average vanilla population of women. Agree, or disagree? Why? Disagree completely. IME fem subs are just like the averge vanilla population of women, with perhaps a higher likelihood of being control freak people pleasers, which arise from a deep seated insecurity of not being good enough. However, people who make healthy relationships last long term tend to be far healthier and smarter than the average person.

losttreasure -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 7:38:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Short version: I have found that, in general, femsubs tend to be more beautiful, more intelligent and more mentally healthy than the average vanilla population of women. Agree, or disagree? Why? The whole population of vanilla women? [:D] Hmmm... well, that changes my answer to you, my darling. Perhaps it has something to do with women involved with BDSM having a greater awareness of and appreciation for the sensualness of life. Honestly... I don't know. Oh, but thank you. Tomorrow cannot get here soon enough. [;)]

FirmhandKY -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 7:53:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: losttreasure The whole population of vanilla women? [:D] Hmmm... well, that changes my answer to you, my darling. How so?

losttreasure -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 8:04:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Disagree completely. IME fem subs are just like the averge vanilla population of women, with perhaps a higher likelihood of being control freak people pleasers, which arise from a deep seated insecurity of not being good enough. However, people who make healthy relationships last long term tend to be far healthier and smarter than the average person. LA... I'm really quite surprised at your response, and a tad disappointed. First, I believe that it is far more likely that healthy, smart people manage to create healthy long term relationships, than the other way around. But I tend to think that is what you were saying... just didn't come out that way. But I see your comment that femsubs have "perhaps a higher likelihood of being control freak people pleasers, which arise from a deep seated insecurity of not being good enough" as being completely inaccurate. While there might be some who fall into that category, do you really think there is a higher proportion of submissives with self-image issues than that the general female population? It smacks of the armchair psychology that might generalize that perhaps a greater portion of males who become dominants subconsciously are rebelling against having been dominated by some woman in their life.

briska -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 8:09:48 PM)
i don't know if this is exactly relevant, but i do agree that most women into BDSM are more comfortable with themselves. this, in my opinion, has to do with the level of "soul-searching", so to speak, that many much do to realize exactly what they need from this kind of lifestyle. i know that before i entered into my relationship with my Sir, i was so uncomfortable in my own skin, i couldn't be naked in a lit bedroom. Now i don't even blink when He tells me to strip in a packed club. (which also may just have to do that He makes me feel secure enough to be naked around strangers, i'm sure it's a combination of the two) So, in short, i suppose my answer is just that to be comfortable enough with oneself to be in this kind of lifestyle generally transforms to being comfortable as well in our vanilla roles.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 8:17:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: losttreasure The whole population of vanilla women? [:D] Hmmm... well, that changes my answer to you, my darling. How so? Well, to be more accurate in my totally subjective point, I was saying "the whole population of vanilla women", but perhaps a better category would be "vanilla women on all dating sites". FirmKY

MagiksSlave -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 8:23:16 PM)
I have nothing extra intelagent to add exept to thank FirmHand for posting this.. its a refreshing change to the "have all subs been sexualy abused" or "all subs are overwaight" type threads that peg subs as beeing mentaly physicaly or emotionaly defishent in some manner. Magik's slave

FirmhandKY -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 8:31:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave I guess I would have to know what your own personal view on "beautiful" was before agreeing or disagreeing. As for the intelligence side of things I tend to agree as making the decision to become a sub/slave is not something anyone takes on (or should take on) lightly and most would have looked into what the lifestyle of being a sub/slave would involve before embarking on it completely. There are also those that try it on for size, they do so intelligently to ensure this is what they want. Mental health is a sticky one and not one that is easily determined, I'd not like to commit to either agreeing or not at this stage. SamKeith's, It's all subjective, I'll admit. Which I said in my original post. Beautiful as opposed to "not beautiful" that many "doms" rant about in the "Ugly sub" threads. By "mentally healthy", I suppose I mean more aware of themselves and their own needs and weaknesses and strengths. Again, a purely subjective point of view, I'll admit. quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave quote: Long version: I've read a lot of the "why are fem subs (fat, ugly, mal-adjusted: take your pick)" threads over several years here, and on other sites. Based purely on my own experiences, I just have to say that I think that all the posters who believe this have it absolutely backwards. Whilst there is certainly a range of "beauty" and intellect in the world, and in any sub-culture, I think that, on average, the women interested in bdsm and/or D/s are brighter, better adjusted, and lovelier than the average population of women. I need clarification. Are you saying that those who ask why fem-subs are fat/ugly/mal-adjusted are 'backwards' because you think most fem-subs are not fat/uly/mal-adjusted OR because you think that there are some fat/ugly/mal-adjusted fem-subs, but just not as many as these posters make out there to be? Which in turn again has me asking what your version of 'beauty' is? Because as you have so correctly stated there is a range of 'beauty' and what people consider to be 'beauty' in the world. Can you clarify, thanks. Backwards clarification: 1. Of the entire universe of women who are subs "on" bdsm, D/s dating sites, compared to the entire universe of women on "vanilla" dating websites. 2. The common perception, given by many posters in the "Ugly femsub" threads is that the "sub universe" of women is less beautiful or less appealing in some way, than the entire universe of all women. 3. I think this is backwards. I think that a higher percentage of women in the "vanilla" world are less appealing. The "average" sub is more likely to be smart, beautiful, intelligent and more in tune with herself. (Generalization, ok?) quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave By 'quality' do you mean the combination of beauty, brains and mental health? Quality means that they are someone that I'd care to know, or talk with at all. Another subjective definition, I am aware. FirmKY

sleazy -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 9:07:06 PM)
Well beauty is in th eye of the beholder, but personally one of the most beautiful aspects of the people on here is self-awareness ragarding both who they are and what they want. Of course there are other aspects I find beautiful too, a willing spirit, a desire to experiment, and sometimes a need to push the boundaries or break the rules of society. As for the physical attributes, they are as a whole meaningless to me, I read profiles, and very rarely look at the pictures I am more interested in people than how they appear:)

DomKen -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 10:11:08 PM)
I'm in agreement on this at least partially. More beautiful than the average vanilla woman? A very subjective point but I've come to the conclusion that part of it is that a submissive woman wants to please her Dominant and is therefore more willing to conform to his preferences in how a woman should look. Therefore I find that a submissive woman is more likely to make an effort to appear feminine than the average vanilla woman. More intelligent than average? They agree with me and that of course makes them smart. ;) More mentally healthy? That is a tough one. I guess overall the well adjusted kinky women have outnumbered the maladjusted kinky women over the years but it is the maladjusted ones that stand out. Now compared to the vanilla women who I've been involved with who couldn't begin to be self aware enough to figure out what they wanted out of a lover or a relationship I'll have to give the edge to the kinky women. Of course this is all moot since it is quite clearly a way to butter up losttreasure so she is in a more agreeable mood for whatever it is you have planned for her tomorrow. ;)

AquaticSub -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 10:12:49 PM)
I really don't know about female subs being more beautiful then non but I can give you my personal experience. As I have realized my submissive nature, grown honest with it and now explore it, I have grown more confident in who I am. As this has happened (along with other factors) my relationships have been improving and then one I am in now may (in another year or two) lead to us making a life commitment to each other. I'm not sure what that says about beauty but I do think that women in this lifestyle are more confident. That probably tends to make us seem more desirable.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 10:40:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Of course this is all moot since it is quite clearly a way to butter up losttreasure so she is in a more agreeable mood for whatever it is you have planned for her tomorrow. ;) ROTFLMAO! Good post, Ken. However, in relation to "buttering up" .... no additional lubricates required, I'm afraid. But funny as hell. [:D][:D] FirmKY

losttreasure -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 10:42:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: losttreasure The whole population of vanilla women? [:D] Hmmm... well, that changes my answer to you, my darling. How so? Well, to be more accurate in my totally subjective point, I was saying "the whole population of vanilla women", but perhaps a better category would be "vanilla women on all dating sites". FirmKY If it's just the dating sites, then my original theory still stands. [;)] It may be completely incorrect and a load of trash, but it's the best I've got. For the benefit of other readers, my initial response to FirmHandKY was that possibly a good deal of the women who sign up for dating sites lack the necessary charms to appeal to the average man on the street. Whereas women who register with sites like CollarMe do so not because they lack natural assets and can't find a man elsewhere, but because they are looking for a not-so-average man. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Of course this is all moot since it is quite clearly a way to butter up losttreasure so she is in a more agreeable mood for whatever it is you have planned for her tomorrow. ;) laughs That's completely unnecessary because I am butter in his hands anyway.

DomKen -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 10:43:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY However, in relation to "buttering up" .... no additional lubricates required, I'm afraid. FirmKY I'm a little unclear on why you're afraid she requires no more lubrication. Also I'm pretty sure losttreasure should be offended some how.[:D]

Lordandmaster -> RE: Counter-point: Beautiful, well adjusted subs (11/23/2006 10:51:55 PM)
I agree with what Tikkiee and Aileen said.

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