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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 5:01:02 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72

how about you "think" before you sleep with someone and live up to your responsibilities? everyone looks at adoption and or/ abortion as a way to put your responsibility onto someone else...


Aw Krissi, I doubt everyone looks at adoption that way.  It isnt something Id be able to do, but I can understand someone completely alone, broke and destitute who feels they have no means to care for a baby the way the baby deserves and needs to be cared for.  So they place it in a good home, with parents who can raise the child properly. 
Im not saying there shouldn't be education on birth control and people taking responsibility for their actions, but I dont think adoption is neccessarily a negative resolution to an unwanted pregnancy. 
I know this isnt the ideal thing to say, but sometimes the natural mother and/or father are not always the best candidates to be parents.

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 5:04:15 PM   
JerseyKrissi72


Posts: 10238
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Reed City, Michigan
Status: offline 		I DO see your point but I am mainly referring to those people who use birth control and adoption as a form of birth control or passing their responsibility onto someone else instead of just using a condom or birth control..I use to help counsel young girls to use birth control and safe sex methods and there was one girl who had 5 abortions by the age of 21..I think that is very sad. I am sorry to sound very harsh..I know adoption is a wonderful thing for so many families..

(in reply to marieToo)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 5:12:26 PM   
feylin


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		That would make a fantastic billboard.  I am seeing all white with the words "THINK" in a nice Times Roman font.  Those that don't immediately break out into a nice car-jamming Aretha Franklin impression will get the message ~ especially if we put them outside bars.

We could tape condoms to the billboard.  Take all the ones we don't put in schools ~ because, lucky for us, teenagers don't have sex ~ and make sure everyone is on the same page.

Stuff happens and I simply do not believe that the majority of women who find themselves pregnant have run amuck and decided that their first defense against raising a child is going to be abortion or adoption.  It cannot be an easy decision.  From my experience with friends, it has been heartwrenching.

I do believe in personal responsibility, but I also believe that moments get away from us, condoms break, birth control fails and rapists and pedophiles are not always into "safety first" and the women are being responsible when they make the follow-up decision.  The deed is done, what's best for them and the child?  It cannot be for  me to say, only the person who has to make the decision.

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 5:23:12 PM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Adoption is usually a wonderful thing.  I am so glad that my aunt and uncle raised me as opposed to my real mother.  No telling where I would be now if she had.  That being said, I tried to adopt my cousin's little boy, but the tribes are so difficult to work with now.  Even though I am native and a family member, adopting native children is a ton of red tape.  If my cousin had been easy to locate I think it would have gone much better.  As it is now, her little boy is on our reservation back home.  Living in a trailer with my single male cousin.  I didn't get him because I was talked into letting a relative that lives on our rez have him.  But that is partly my fault anyway.  I live so far away from my tribe and far from any other Chippewa/Ojibwe, that the demanded cultural upbringing would have been difficult to have done.  Also he has a half brother and sister that were adopted long ago by another cousin on the reservation.  I felt it was best that he have contact with them while growing up.

Opps meant to add that ad sounds like a hoax...but who knows....

I did check into private adoption a few years ago....and gosh that is pricey here in the states....anywhere from 20k to 30k.  But now with the changes in my life lately, I am not so sure I am going to adopt.  I am definitely not getting any younger.    

< Message edited by texancutie -- 11/25/2006 5:28:19 PM >

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 5:38:50 PM   
PrimitiveLogic


Posts: 145
Joined: 4/25/2006
From: Md.
Status: offline 		Texancutie, I feel that same family adoptions should be like the expresss lane. Afterall they are staying in the same extended family. As to other country adoptions...I wonder what the percentage of truly successful ones really occur? My former guitarist was jerked around by Russian baby brokers to the tune of $50 K. He got a hyperactive 2 yo who continues to be a handful 6 yrs later...including being the final straw ending his marriage within two yrs of adopting. Perhaps there should be  a movement to encourage In country pre birth adoptions with a guilt reduction built in...fewer fees...fresh from the oven. The new parents could certainly use the money saved to launch the child from a better financial position. Then again all one need do is spend time in Labor and delivery in the city to see the production line of misery to be.

< Message edited by PrimitiveLogic -- 11/25/2006 5:39:09 PM >

(in reply to texancutie)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 5:43:52 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72

I have four beautiful sons and could not imagine giving one of them up no matter what!!! No matter how difficult things get they were a blessing from God...I don't understand some people...they are quick to make the baby, they have no trouble doing that...but to care for it..that's another story


To be fair, you have no idea how this baby was made. Condoms break and BC fails. If they are trying find a good home for a baby because they can't provide they are the doing their job as parents.

If you are making sure that your baby is being cared for then it does not matter if you are the one doing the providing. You did your job.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 5:44:51 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied


quote:

How is this any different than walking into a hospital and simply leaving your child?(which is now totally legal)


When did abandonment of a child become legal?



In certain cases I think it's allowed. It removes the fees to adopt kids out and gives the kids a shot at a loving home.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 5:47:03 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I had no clue.  I thought it was a chargeable offense.

In Pennsylvania it's good up to 28 days.  (as in a 28 day old infant)

edited to add info



Nope, but in certain states (I think VA) it is now a crime punishable by jail to not report that you spontatiously aborted.

That's right girls, if you abort naturally because your body decides to, not only do you have the pain and emotionally suffering to deal with, if you don't call the cops and tell them they will send you to jail! Ain't life fun?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 5:48:48 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72

how about you "think" before you sleep with someone and live up to your responsibilities? everyone looks at adoption and or/ abortion as a way to put your responsibility onto someone else...


Try thinking about it from the point of the view of the child before you give this lecture. Do you want to live with parents who don't want you but are keeping you out of a sense of responsiblity or do you want to go live with the family that can't have a baby and would do anything in the world to raise you?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 5:53:19 PM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Actually same family adoptions usually go a little smoother than this.  But with the Indian Child Welfare Act in the 70s...it made it a potential legal mess.  Native kids are just harder to get is all.  

(in reply to PrimitiveLogic)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 6:26:31 PM   
feylin


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:


Nope, but in certain states (I think VA) it is now a crime punishable by jail to not report that you spontatiously aborted.

That's right girls, if you abort naturally because your body decides to, not only do you have the pain and emotionally suffering to deal with, if you don't call the cops and tell them they will send you to jail! Ain't life fun?


This startled me, to say the least.  Fine, I'll just call the police every single time I have my period. They should enjoy that. 

I had a hard time believing it (stunned as I was) so I Googled.

Without notifiying local law enforcement of a stillborn birth within 12 hours of event...

Guess what?  You just earned yourself up to 12 months in jail and a $2,500 fine.  Why?  Because you failed to call the cops and report your miscarriage within 12 hours.
True?  Not yet.  But if Delegate John Cosgrove (R-78) has his way, HB1677 will become law in a few short months, and this scenario will be reality for many women in Virginia. 

Twelve months in jail for a miscarriage?  ...I have no words..none. 

Luckily...

(HB1677) 01/12/05  House: Stricken from docket by C. J. (22-Y 0-N

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 6:35:52 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feylin


(HB1677) 01/12/05  House: Stricken from docket by C. J. (22-Y 0-N


Oooo ooo does that mean it won't be law? I have to move back to VA in a few years...

It's bloody insane. Why does it need to be reported anyway? It's a painful thing and what are they going to be make the woman do? Come in and fill out a bunch of paperwork?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to feylin)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 6:57:53 PM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Thankfully it probably will not pass.  At least I hope not anyway.

(in reply to feylin)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 7:00:15 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		I dont think its if you have a miscarriage, i think if its a stillborn.  Once a fetus is considered past the viable stage which is 24 wks.  I'm only guessing here though.  I'm from virginia and i'm the first to say its a police state. 

As for adoption - i could never.  Over some one elses dead body will i lose one of my babies.  Imagine a lion backed into her den with her cubs behind her.. yeah thats me.  I have a childhood friend who gave birth shortly after i did 5 years ago.  She gave her little boy up for adoption and she cried for about a week straight.  My biggest concern is any regret she might eventually have.  Her reasons are her reasons and while i think they're retarded, they are hers and she's the one that has to live with them so i wish her the best.  She is now pregnant again (we may be states apart... but we have the same timing), married to the father of her first child and well "settled" 

i think when it comes down to adoption.  Not one of us has any right to say what anyone else should do.  We havent the right to say if its right or wrong for others, or even judge.  Its their choice and for most one of the most difficult choices of their lives.  For others its an easy choice and if some one finds it an easy choice, imo, its definetly the best one. 

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 7:03:05 PM   
feylin


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		The proposer did qualify it (after talking with legislative lawyers...after getting swamped with calls/emails/letters) to read more specifically to deliveries of stillborn babies that have been abandoned.

Words that can be interpreted by a D.A. to mean any number of things.  No death certificate, didn't see a doctor, disposed of remains yourself ~ abandonment?  Would depend on the judge.  Of course, it goes without saying that anyone who actually abandoned their child would probably call the police to notify....so this would not have affected women who had miscarriages.  Bah!

Yes, proposal removed from docket in 2005 ~  no vote.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 7:42:33 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Someone should call the cops after taking a shit--you know, so that they can verify whether it was a stillborn or just a nasty crapper.

(in reply to feylin)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 7:46:03 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		or an elephant baby

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 7:48:32 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feylin

The proposer did qualify it (after talking with legislative lawyers...after getting swamped with calls/emails/letters) to read more specifically to deliveries of stillborn babies that have been abandoned.

Words that can be interpreted by a D.A. to mean any number of things.  No death certificate, didn't see a doctor, disposed of remains yourself ~ abandonment?  Would depend on the judge.  Of course, it goes without saying that anyone who actually abandoned their child would probably call the police to notify....so this would not have affected women who had miscarriages.  Bah!

Yes, proposal removed from docket in 2005 ~  no vote.


If it's born dead and the mother didn't kill it... where the hell is the harm? I mean... I don't know what you would do with it... I would probably still go the hospital or something but still.. it's a private thing. If the mother didn't kill it, then there is no harm, no foul, right?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to feylin)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/25/2006 11:22:09 PM   
CandleInTheWind


Posts: 347
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72

how about you "think" before you sleep with someone and live up to your responsibilities? everyone looks at adoption and or/ abortion as a way to put your responsibility onto someone else...


so i huess that each and every time you have sex that you fully expect to have a pregnancy occur??  because I am quite aware of the fact that there are many failures in birthcontrol methods.  their is only one true methodof prevention and that is absolute abstention

_____________________________

It is better to be hated for something that you are
than it is to be loved for something you are not

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
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RE: Oh, This Makes Me So Mad!!! - 11/26/2006 8:42:54 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Aw Krissi, I doubt everyone looks at adoption that way.  It isnt something Id be able to do, but I can understand someone completely alone, broke and destitute who feels they have no means to care for a baby the way the baby deserves and needs to be cared for.  So they place it in a good home, with parents who can raise the child properly. 
Im not saying there shouldn't be education on birth control and people taking responsibility for their actions, but I dont think adoption is neccessarily a negative resolution to an unwanted pregnancy. 
I know this isnt the ideal thing to say, but sometimes the natural mother and/or father are not always the best candidates to be parents.


If someone is "completely alone, broke and destitute, who feels they have no means to care for a baby the way a baby deserves and needs to be cared for", why are they having a child in the first place?

(in reply to marieToo)
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