RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights

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SamKeithsslave -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 1:57:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sleazy quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave Hungerford? Micheal Ryan? Yes, that is the instance I had in mind. Please forgive me for not always being specific, I find it often helps provoke thought and research sometimes :) I am only aware of this one, as my half-sisters mother was one of the victims. Not that I ever met her or my half-sister. In the case of this legislation there were far more groups that could be expected to be "pro-legislation" than anti consulted, simply because there are far more such groups around shouting their opinion, whilst us lifestylers generally sit quietly behind our curtains afraid of being considered dirty etc, all this despite the fact many of can quote the Kinsey report and similar with its comments on the levels of our kind of kink :) Lets face it our lifestyle doesnt exactly get great publicity and it usually seems to be the butt of many bad jokes etc. In time I'd like to think the BDSM lifestyle will become more acceptable as gay/lesbian lifestyles have. Sadly as we have both noted much of this is nothing more than a vote winning act. I think if passed it will be yet another law that is rarely acted on, like the mobile phone law here or the all bike (pedal not motor) riders must wear helmets. Its a $200 fine to use a mobile phone while driving here and a $50 fine for anyone (children) included to not wear a helmet - I am yet to see either la implemented. Here too we have a mobile phone law as a result of a string of collisions and a vocal campaign group. Oh ok, is this a fairly recent thing? I remember going to a Carol Gray (author of Social Stories - an aid for autistic children) seminar and she remarked that she was impressed with our law against use of mobile phones etc. What is overlooked is that there have been offences (with the potential of far more serious penalties) on the statute books for decades that covered all aspects of the new law. As a result, 20 years ago when using 2way radio I could have been prosecuted at the very least with "failure to maintain proper control of a motor vehicle", now if I use that self same radio it is not covered by the new mobile phone law and so most younger police officers have never come across the failure to maintain.. so I can should I wish drive badly using my radio and escape prosecution. I have always found there are far more dangerous things that you can do while driving that are not illegal - and no its not sex LOL. I once actually drove off the right side of the road, headed toward a bus before swerving, hitting the embankment spinning out of control and ending up being upside down all because I decided to try and open a new packet of cigarettes!! We do not have a cycle helmet law yet, I to am sort of surprised by that, but then I think how rarely I actually see children cycling and so am not surprised there have not been a couple of gory deaths for the media to dig into. Add on the fact that the police are so overstretched with other "priorities" it would be yet another law that would rarely be enforced properly. Exactly! Which is why i wonder if the legislation is bought in will it ever actally be acted upon? Its just being discussed as a means to keep people happy and appear to be seen to be doing something. I hope it doesnt get in, but still believe something needs to be done about pretend child porn. PS, on an amusing side line although I dont tend to surf the net for porn, I do get a number of those "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT" emails and *was* very tempted on one occassion to open one thats subject line started "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT: 5 clowns do.............." and right there and then I wondered what the???? and realised there are many many fetishes that I had never even considered - LOL

meatcleaver -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 1:58:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen What I await with interest is the appeal to the EU courts of couples prosecuted for possession of such images of themselves, taken by themselves for their own use, under the European human rights act, which guarantees the right to private life. My feelings too. I can't see much of what is being proposed surviving the European Courts. A lot of the new laws are just window dressing and posturing and merely designed to distract the electorate from other failing policies of the government or at least blame someone else for failure of government policy.

SamKeithsslave -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 1:58:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Oh no! The peasants are revolting. Again. I resemble that remark!

sleazy -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 2:22:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave quote: ORIGINAL: sleazy quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave In the case of this legislation there were far more groups that could be expected to be "pro-legislation" than anti consulted, simply because there are far more such groups around shouting their opinion, whilst us lifestylers generally sit quietly behind our curtains afraid of being considered dirty etc, all this despite the fact many of can quote the Kinsey report and similar with its comments on the levels of our kind of kink :) Lets face it our lifestyle doesnt exactly get great publicity and it usually seems to be the butt of many bad jokes etc. In time I'd like to think the BDSM lifestyle will become more acceptable as gay/lesbian lifestyles have. Here's hoping, and it is for that very reason I am hoping my next partner will not be too much in the closet and so we can interact and join the rest who have "come out" <snip> Here too we have a mobile phone law as a result of a string of collisions and a vocal campaign group. Oh ok, is this a fairly recent thing? I remember going to a Carol Gray (author of Social Stories - an aid for autistic children) seminar and she remarked that she was impressed with our law against use of mobile phones etc. Been around a couple of years now, Ill try and dig out the relevant legislation and I shall send it off list for you What is overlooked is that there have been offences (with the potential of far more serious penalties) on the statute books for decades that covered all aspects of the new law. As a result, 20 years ago when using 2way radio I could have been prosecuted at the very least with "failure to maintain proper control of a motor vehicle", now if I use that self same radio it is not covered by the new mobile phone law and so most younger police officers have never come across the failure to maintain.. so I can should I wish drive badly using my radio and escape prosecution. I have always found there are far more dangerous things that you can do while driving that are not illegal - and no its not sex LOL. I once actually drove off the right side of the road, headed toward a bus before swerving, hitting the embankment spinning out of control and ending up being upside down all because I decided to try and open a new packet of cigarettes!! Dang, thought I was the only smoker left on the planet sometimes! Driving round here is dangerous enough in its own right, and smoking more than my truck does is the only way to arrive with any nerves left somedays. We do not have a cycle helmet law yet, I to am sort of surprised by that, but then I think how rarely I actually see children cycling and so am not surprised there have not been a couple of gory deaths for the media to dig into. Add on the fact that the police are so overstretched with other "priorities" it would be yet another law that would rarely be enforced properly. Exactly! Which is why i wonder if the legislation is bought in will it ever actally be acted upon? Its just being discussed as a means to keep people happy and appear to be seen to be doing something. I hope it doesnt get in, but still believe something needs to be done about pretend child porn. Oh but the legislation will be acted on, but not at any of the intended targets. It will be the regular run of the mill lifestylers that will be the ones who suffer. A few poor folks will be set upon, in a similar method to the spanner case (the original video that prompted the whole deal would be illegal too) to make an example and prove the powers that be are doing something. Voluntary groups will take yet another hit in adult numbers, how long before as well as a criminal record check you have to submit to a house search and the kind of vetting normally reserved for keepers of a nations greatest secrets before you can walk into a school, or become a scout leader? On the child porn front, I agree that you have a valid point, but only a limited one I'm afraid as I have to make allowances for those of us who use an age based dynamic within their relationship. I am sure almost none of the age based players are either using the dynamic to supress the urge to be involved with a genuine minor or would ever consider touching/looking at a minor in such a way. However how to differentiate between sights they would enjoy, and images aimed purely at the peadophile market is not a task I would like. Even 5 years ago, I was involved with a young lady who because of her build and looks (we always shopped in the early teens dept for her clothes) was regularly having problems buying age restricted goods and was even stopped by a schools attendance officer on a few occasions until she produced her driving licence. PS, on an amusing side line although I dont tend to surf the net for porn, I do get a number of those "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT" emails and *was* very tempted on one occassion to open one thats subject line started "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT: 5 clowns do.............." and right there and then I wondered what the???? and realised there are many many fetishes that I had never even considered - LOL Must admit, clowns is a new one on me and I thought I had seen most things by now :) PS next time forward it to me, I could do with a good giggle! quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Oh no! The peasants are revolting. Again. I resemble that remark! Always wanted a revolting peasant to inflict an inquisition on[;)]

SamKeithsslave -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 2:38:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sleazy Lets face it our lifestyle doesnt exactly get great publicity and it usually seems to be the butt of many bad jokes etc. In time I'd like to think the BDSM lifestyle will become more acceptable as gay/lesbian lifestyles have. Here's hoping, and it is for that very reason I am hoping my next partner will not be too much in the closet and so we can interact and join the rest who have "come out" I am "out" to all but family, only because they really wouldnt understand nor would they accept my choice. Dang, thought I was the only smoker left on the planet sometimes! You may well still be, that was 20 years ago, 5 days after I passed my drivers test - LOL. Now I smoke very rarely, usually when with other smokers. PS, on an amusing side line although I dont tend to surf the net for porn, I do get a number of those "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT" emails and *was* very tempted on one occassion to open one thats subject line started "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT: 5 clowns do.............." and right there and then I wondered what the???? and realised there are many many fetishes that I had never even considered - LOL Must admit, clowns is a new one on me and I thought I had seen most things by now :) I have a pirate thing and a Santa thing, but a clown thing?? I dunno, maybe its got some appeal? You know what they say about men with big feet [;)] quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Oh no! The peasants are revolting. Again. I resemble that remark! Always wanted a revolting peasant to inflict an inquisition on[;)] Well I am technically a Catholic, so it might be pointless LOL

sleazy -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 2:45:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave quote: ORIGINAL: sleazy Lets face it our lifestyle doesnt exactly get great publicity and it usually seems to be the butt of many bad jokes etc. In time I'd like to think the BDSM lifestyle will become more acceptable as gay/lesbian lifestyles have. Here's hoping, and it is for that very reason I am hoping my next partner will not be too much in the closet and so we can interact and join the rest who have "come out" I am "out" to all but family, only because they really wouldnt understand nor would they accept my choice. Luckily I live a pretty solitary life right now, a couple of work colleauges know but they have known me for years and are of a similar persuasion, so limited publicity is not too much of a problem for me. Dang, thought I was the only smoker left on the planet sometimes! You may well still be, that was 20 years ago, 5 days after I passed my drivers test - LOL. Now I smoke very rarely, usually when with other smokers. Well I keep thinking about quitting, then I remember its not my will power thats a problem, more my wont power :) With the right partner at hand I am sure it would be much easier PS, on an amusing side line although I dont tend to surf the net for porn, I do get a number of those "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT" emails and *was* very tempted on one occassion to open one thats subject line started "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT: 5 clowns do.............." and right there and then I wondered what the???? and realised there are many many fetishes that I had never even considered - LOL Must admit, clowns is a new one on me and I thought I had seen most things by now :) I have a pirate thing and a Santa thing, but a clown thing?? I dunno, maybe its got some appeal? You know what they say about men with big feet [;)] All I know is my feet are big enough for me to trip over. As for my personal fancy dress fetishes, well that could be a forum in its own right some days! quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Oh no! The peasants are revolting. Again. I resemble that remark! Always wanted a revolting peasant to inflict an inquisition on[;)] Well I am technically a Catholic, so it might be pointless LOL No excuse to get out the whip, thumbscrews and branding iron is pointless, the question should be are you catholic enough!!!!! [:D]

LadyEllen -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 2:48:02 AM)
I wonder if the pics I looked at on the OWK website make me a sex offender? They're on my hard disk presumably, so I must be. I might as well go out and do a few rapes I think; might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb and all that. E

SamKeithsslave -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 2:52:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave Well I am technically a Catholic, so it might be pointless LOL No excuse to get out the whip, thumbscrews and branding iron is pointless, the question should be are you catholic enough!!!!! [:D] ROFL, no I am most definitely not Catholic enough.

sleazy -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 2:53:47 AM)
Thats the spirit Ladyellen :) Go down in a blaze of glory. It as usual all depends on the interpretation of grey words like severe, extreme, appear to and the such. That is why I maintain that the old Obscene Publications deprave and corrupt test is still the best compromise yardstick, Mrs jones may be disgusted by such images, but shes hardly likely to suddenly feel the desire to become Anyshires latest pro-domme :)

LadyEllen -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 2:58:17 AM)
You know, if this stuff passes, what I think could be done to fight back is to send the names, and preferably also pics of the MPs, Lords, Bishops, Judges and so on, who see pro-Dommes, to the newspapers. Now that should make things interesting. E

sleazy -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 3:03:48 AM)
Oh but how terrible that would be, that is why such images should be banned to protect the private lives of the individuals involved. Yes I know thats not what the law is supposed to be about, but its yet another way of pretending to protect the little guys, after all if the law can be used to protect those in power it protects Joe Public too. Ill take my tongue out of my cheek now:)

LadyEllen -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 3:07:09 AM)
Some more thoughts It is illegal to consent to an offence or to commission another to commit an offence - thus the Spanner verdicts I would assume. It is illegal to undertake acts preparatory to an offence; thus simply two people being in a room, with an implement and camera also being present, would presumably represent enough evidence to convict, as an act preparatory to an act which would breach this legislation. That nothing took place, that nothing was recorded by the camera, would be inadmissible as a defence, since the acts preparatory had taken place. E

SamKeithsslave -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 3:07:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen You know, if this stuff passes, what I think could be done to fight back is to send the names, and preferably also pics of the MPs, Lords, Bishops, Judges and so on, who see pro-Dommes, to the newspapers. Now that should make things interesting. E Oh no doubt this will happen, especially once people start being dragged out into the lime light.

sleazy -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 3:26:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Some more thoughts It is illegal to consent to an offence or to commission another to commit an offence - thus the Spanner verdicts I would assume. Yes and no, whilst the law of the land still rests on that spanner verdict I would be interested to see a boxer suddennly decide that despite entering the ring with consent the assault he was engaged in/victim of was illegal. Not likely I admit. It is illegal to undertake acts preparatory to an offence; thus simply two people being in a room, with an implement and camera also being present, would presumably represent enough evidence to convict, as an act preparatory to an act which would breach this legislation. Oh yes add the words "conspiracy to commit" in front of any offence and it becomes a veritable minefield. I am not certain that all offences can be prefixed with the conspiracy element, after all that would mean me encouraging a taxi driver to get me home could be conspiracy to drive in excess of the posted limit contrary to (I think) Road Traffic Act 1984 as amended. Acts preparatory to can be limited to speech alone, but any form of conspiracy is difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt without a great deal of coroborating evidence. That nothing took place, that nothing was recorded by the camera, would be inadmissible as a defence, since the acts preparatory had taken place. However I could offer the fact that said implement was to be photographed on its own, not in use, for sale on ebay. Presumption of innocence is supposed to apply, thus the crown must prove what was about to happen rather than me prove otherwise. E I would love to sit down and hash this out with our legal officers here at work, however they are not "of us" and that could make for some very red faces. Remember this legislation is brought to you by the government that made it illegal to....... Salvage the wreck of RMS Titanic For the mate on a ship to report an open door closed and Set off a nuclear explosion Anybody fancy try to set off a nuke, whilst being mistaken about the status of a door while we go raise the titanic, I reckon with all that to deal with CPS may drop the kinky picture thing :)

sleazy -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 3:32:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen You know, if this stuff passes, what I think could be done to fight back is to send the names, and preferably also pics of the MPs, Lords, Bishops, Judges and so on, who see pro-Dommes, to the newspapers. Now that should make things interesting. E Oh no doubt this will happen, especially once people start being dragged out into the lime light. There was a similar campaign a few years ago regarding computer encryption. The idea was to create an encryption key registered in the name of your local MP, then send the MP an encrypted file containing something unlawful, and report it to the police. The said MP would then have been guilty of not providing the decryption key should the police investigate.

LadyEllen -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 4:03:47 AM)
I wonder what could be done against me, if I set up a temple to the Goddess Freyja and claimed my religion to be a sect of Her following which saw and used bdsm methods to attain spiritual progression through asceticism, flagellation and so on designed to transmute sexual energy to spiritual energy. No doubt such a sect would have recourse to religious imagery which would breach this legislation, for the use of its followers. Since I have a right to my religion, and freedom to practice and express it, I should be immune from prosecution? Asatru (Norse/Germanic religion) is widely practised in the UK and is a recognised state religion in Iceland (and I believe accepted also in Norway), and Freyja is drawn from that religion as the Goddess of eroticism (briefly), so the validity of my sect cannot be practically disputed by reference to our Christian legal system, without also compromising by the same dispute the rights of Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, Buddhists et al. Albeit of course, that any religion which finds itself in this country is ever subject to Christianity, whatever the language used about diversity. And we know what reaction could be expected from a system which claims that sex is dirty, evil and sinful unless for the greater glory of God through the procreation of children, meanwhile allowing and even authorising the use of scourging and celebrating crucifixion. E

sleazy -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 4:14:54 AM)
Religions are not offered any form of immunity from prosecution in theory. Having said that, if you can arrange for your religion to become a vocal, radical and persecuted minority that Mssrs Blair & Co. feel it is their best interests to appease you all should be fine & dandy for you. Apologies, I meant that to be sarcastic then I realised it was a bit too true to be so. Back on planet earth, you could perhaps consider using John Norman as your prophet as one of his sects has already been subject to investigation and cleared, so that gives you a precedence to rely so should the powers that be take an undue interest you can play the persecution card. In the meantime I would like to apply for the post of high priest (or its relevant equivalent) or the south-east.

LadyEllen -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 4:32:16 AM)
Why dont we go the whole way and criminalise any form of sexual contact outside of Christian marriage and any form of sex even within marriage where the participants take any pleasure in it aside from the will to worship the Lord through procreating children to his greater glory? That would make things much more simple, except for those compiling the sex register of course. So to get around that, we will just put everyone on the sex register, from birth, and only remove people from it when and if they dress and behave like Mr and Mrs Whiteadder in the comedy Blackadder. Presto! No more single parent families, no more underage pregnancies and no more STDs. We will also ban the production, import, sale, possession and use of alcohol (a known danger to inspiring sexual acts), all forms of recording equipment (cameras of course, but also paper and pens) and all written media with or without pictures aside from the Bible, Book of Common Prayer and Alternative Services Book. We will also reintroduce the Sunday Attendance Act and compulsory tithing. We will also remove all passports and build an Iron Curtain around the island, to keep out all undue influences which might corrupt the virtue of the population (or was that to stop people emigrating to places where the law is made with sensible aims?) My growing dislike for my homeland is exceeded only by my hatred for the foreign cancer which pervades it, in case you hadnt noticed. E

sleazy -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (11/27/2006 4:41:50 AM)
I dont recall exactly where I read it recently, but somebody had a much simpler idea (although the thread was ID cards - dont get me started). Place the enitre population under house arrest, with no manufacturing industry everybody can telecommute. The only people then out on the street would be criminals or Tescos drivers* delivering to every house in the land. *tescos was chosen for a very specific reason Lets add on to that an Ira Howard type selective marriage/breeding program to ensure that one day Britannia can once more rule the world. At the risk of being branded a complete facist I really do believe some folks should be asked to leave the gene pool :) As for your last line, Amen.

LizaHEAT1 -> RE: UK Goverment and your consensual rights (12/1/2006 9:38:00 AM)
It will be absolutely interesting in WHO gets to define the term EXTREME ... I wanna ticket in the cheap seats! Actually, I will be closer to the debauchery as (xxxADAMxxx) the OP, is my Partner. Thank goodness we are consentually kidnapping Him before the UK gets their mucky mitts all over this (speaking of government issues butt of course)

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