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RE: Vision mapping - 11/27/2006 10:42:07 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

sounds interesting, but that's not my Master's style. He does have clear goals for our relationship, and he has a clearly defined path of where he wants me to go in slavery, and how he wishes to lead me there. but nothing on paper, and nothing that he would ever share with me in detail.

daddy's prop,
Here's a question your position generates, not as a challenge but as a better way to understand your perspective and for you to see ours.

Assume for a moment that you like to bowl.How exciting would it be if in front of the target, the pins, there were a curtain. You'd throw the ball, it would disappear behind the curtains, you may or may not hear a noise, the ball is returned and you do it all over again. It wouldn't hold your interest long I'd bet.

So, you put a person on the other side of the curtain, for the sake of this discussion let's call him "Master". Now he stands there as says one of two things depending on his style. He either says; "GREAT! You got 9!" or "You SUCK! You missed 1!" Both had the same result and depending upon your needs you could be attracted and desire either "Master".

My position is that its more "fun" when you know your goal and can see the obvious result. The "Master" then is free to stand next to you and train. You both can "keep score"; celebrating the 'strikes' and correcting the reasons for the 'gutter balls'. The manner and methods of training become more effective if the goal is obvious.

quote:

i am accountable for many things, but he is not accountable to me. He has no obligations to me and he has made no vows to me.

I respect this and appreciate these words. I'd agree with them in respect to beth and so would she. However, I do feel accountable and responsible for our relationship. I do feel obligated to our relationship. The reason is ultimately very selfish. It has been a very long process taking a very long time to find a person willing to commit. I don't want to have to go through the process again. As I see it, I have a vested, selfish, interest to make sure I am not the cause of its failure.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

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RE: Vision mapping - 11/27/2006 10:47:12 AM

behindmirrors

Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
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We have not used vision mapping in a relationship context, though we have used it- we have a list of defined goals for getting our house fixed up, the process we need to accomplish this, and financial/life goal plans for both of us detailing where we would like to be financially/job wise/personal goals wise each month, year, five years, etc...as well as a financial plan that details how much of each income will go into the house and to each of our retirement funds, as well as an expense account for emergencies or problems that are unforseen at the time of the planning but might happen (cars that need fixed, health problems, etc...).
We determined that using this sort of thing for our relationship would add unnecessary pressure on it, and prefer to take on what comes as it comes between us- and discuss and negotiate as needed. There is no concrete plan as to where we want to be at a future date- it has a lot more to do with what's there and if it works to be together over time. So far, that's been an effective approach, and I like having the surprises better than saying "okay, the goal is that you're ready to be collared in one year, and we'll get married in two years, and I'll propose in a year and a half, and during that time we will push these soft limits and work on these things." I don't want the pressure of a deadline for a relationship-related thing- I want it to happen when it's right, and not on a schedule.

Mapping is great, it has really helped us in many ways- we just choose to use it for life things outside of our relationship that we need to have deadlines for or get done- and that gives us a clear idea of where we are at, what we need to do, and takes a whole lot of extra pressure off of the time we can just spend together.

behindmirrors.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

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Post #: 22

RE: Vision mapping - 11/27/2006 10:55:58 AM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

do you have a plan for your relationship? did you write it down? do you hold yourself accountable to it with you partner?

In my relationships, what i generally hold myself accountable for is being honest with my partner when i am experiencing an internal change, or shift in perspective, that may indeed affect the relationship dynamic on the whole. i allow for personal growth.  i don't like surprises. i can only be responsible for my part of that accountability. i cannot hold another accountable for what i hold myself accountable for. i can remind another of what the original commitments meant to both of us in the beginning, such as complete honesty, etc., and if they are still willing or able to keep their end of the agreement. But if they have a change of mind or heart, i cannot fault them for growing in a different direction, especially if they are being honest.

However, i can hold them accountable for not being honest with me from the onset of such internal changes, especially if agreed this honesty would be brought forth, and, is affecting the relationship.  If the other is unwilling or reluctant to value that original commitment in the same fashion that i do, or reluctant to hold themselves accountable and wishes to shift the responsibility, all the acountability in the world will not change what has changed inside of the other, and has thus reverberated through the relationship, which also has changed as a result.

It is what it is, and if i am being affected negatively, and the other person is not able to come to a place that will alleviate or fulfill my needs, then i am accountable to myself to make a descision based on my mental health and well being.

i believe that the tool, in this case, vision mapping,  is only as good as the person using it.   Being accountable to myself, though in this sense has worked well for me.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

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Post #: 23

RE: Vision mapping - 11/27/2006 12:22:59 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

sounds interesting, but that's not my Master's style. He does have clear goals for our relationship, and he has a clearly defined path of where he wants me to go in slavery, and how he wishes to lead me there. but nothing on paper, and nothing that he would ever share with me in detail.

daddy's prop,
Here's a question your position generates, not as a challenge but as a better way to understand your perspective and for you to see ours.

Assume for a moment that you like to bowl.How exciting would it be if in front of the target, the pins, there were a curtain. You'd throw the ball, it would disappear behind the curtains, you may or may not hear a noise, the ball is returned and you do it all over again. It wouldn't hold your interest long I'd bet.

So, you put a person on the other side of the curtain, for the sake of this discussion let's call him "Master". Now he stands there as says one of two things depending on his style. He either says; "GREAT! You got 9!" or "You SUCK! You missed 1!" Both had the same result and depending upon your needs you could be attracted and desire either "Master".

My position is that its more "fun" when you know your goal and can see the obvious result. The "Master" then is free to stand next to you and train. You both can "keep score"; celebrating the 'strikes' and correcting the reasons for the 'gutter balls'. The manner and methods of training become more effective if the goal is obvious.

quote:

i am accountable for many things, but he is not accountable to me. He has no obligations to me and he has made no vows to me.
I respect this and appreciate these words. I'd agree with them in respect to beth and so would she. However, I do feel accountable and responsible for our relationship. I do feel obligated to our relationship. The reason is ultimately very selfish. It has been a very long process taking a very long time to find a person willing to commit. I don't want to have to go through the process again. As I see it, I have a vested, selfish, interest to make sure I am not the cause of its failure.

Merc, thanks for sharing your perspective...it gave me something to think about, and perhaps something to discuss with my Master someday.

you said, "the manner and methods of training become more effective if the goal is obvious". we would agree with this. my "goal" in this union is to please him. that is my entire life's purpose, and has been since that day i agreed to become his property. now it's not a game of chance, where i have to cross my fingers and hope that he is pleased. He has always made it very clear what pleases him and what does not...what is permitted and what is not. and there have always been clear and set consequences for displeasing him.

what i do not know is my fate. i do not know precisely what sort of slave he is ultimately molding me to be. i do not know what lies beyond the trees. and that is the state in which my Master prefers me to be. as he says, he has his affairs (which include my future and the "end goal"), and i have mine (pleasing him)....a.k.a. "it's none of your concern bitch" (He's subtle huh? lol).

now as for a Master feeling accountable/responsible for the relationship. i can understand this perspective as well. however it can give the implication that the Master is not in control of the relationship itself, which ultimately he is. i don't think that a M/s union can "fail", so much as a Master may no longer desire a slave and therefore release her. a slave need not be happy or fulfilled in order to make a M/s union successful. a slave must simply serve and please or face the consequences (unpretty).

to use an example, say i was just a miserable wretch and was endlessly depressed in service to my Master. let's say i continued to do as told, but not as well and not as thoroughly, due to my unhappy emotional state. my Master's response would not be to then wonder, what could he do to make me feel better, but rather to quite literally knock some sense into me. He would become far more strict and more vigilant about discipline. i would serve and please him up to the standards he requires, and he would ensure this by whatever means necessary. the relationship cannot "fail" because he alone determines the path of the relationship.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

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RE: Vision mapping - 11/27/2006 3:01:21 PM

andreaC

Posts: 195
Joined: 10/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

Julia's post on arguments got me thinking about vision mapping.

vision mapping is becoming very clear on paper, on the goals and dreams you and your partner with to achieve, and then define the steps you need to take to get there.

ideally folks who use this process set up time to recapitulate and assess their relationship every so often and see if they are on the right track or if they need to shift gears somewhere.

the way it has been described to me was like using a map, and how with out a map you can find yourself off course, asking strangers that dont know the answers, and maybe eventually you get there but its a bumpy road.

i never knew of this technique when i was in a serious relationship but i think it would have been a good idea...

do you have a plan for your relationship? did you write it down? do you hold yourself accountable to it with you partner?

I remember a few months back, my Master has asked me what were my plans for the future, my dreams.......the way it was asked i was a bit confused. Anyway, i understood why he had asked that question... i wrote it down and then sent it to Him. It turned out that we answered the same question separately and it came out almost identical.

I know that plans cant always come out for real, but i believe if we both work at it, they can surely happen.

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Post #: 25

RE: Vision mapping - 11/27/2006 4:08:42 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AuburnLady40

Vision mapping? planning a relationship?

I've found through the course of the long term relationships I've been involved with, that's an impossibility to pre-plan a direction of where relationship will go. One can hope at best. As we grow and experience life, both in and outside of the relationship, we are constantly being redefined - our prespectives of what we need to be fulfilled changes. One can hope our partner's changes continue to mesh with our needs, but more often that is not the case as each of us grow or learn differently from life experiences we encounter.

That sounds about right to me. Things change. I know I have dropped rituals and so on because they just didn't feel right anymore.

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RE: Vision mapping - 11/27/2006 7:27:24 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: AuburnLady40

Vision mapping? planning a relationship?

I've found through the course of the long term relationships I've been involved with, that's an impossibility to pre-plan a direction of where relationship will go. One can hope at best. As we grow and experience life, both in and outside of the relationship, we are constantly being redefined - our prespectives of what we need to be fulfilled changes. One can hope our partner's changes continue to mesh with our needs, but more often that is not the case as each of us grow or learn differently from life experiences we encounter.

I've found that a lot of people see writing down things akin to writing something in stone. It doesn't have to be that way. It can be a fluid document that changes with you. This is how I intend my manual to be...it's changed already and I've only had it finished for about six months.

What we map is what we THINK we want. Sometimes, what we think and what we come to understand that we want turn out to be the same thing...sometimes not. For me, this "vision mapping" idea is simply writing down what I think I want, how I think I want it to look and how I think I'll get there.

Master Fire

That sounds about right to me. Things change. I know I have dropped rituals and so on because they just didn't feel right anymore.

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RE: Vision mapping - 11/28/2006 12:57:30 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I respect this and appreciate these words. I'd agree with them in respect to beth and so would she. However, I do feel accountable and responsible for our relationship. I do feel obligated to our relationship. The reason is ultimately very selfish. It has been a very long process taking a very long time to find a person willing to commit. I don't want to have to go through the process again. As I see it, I have a vested, selfish, interest to make sure I am not the cause of its failure.

I would like to comment on this, if I may. I believe my Master feels accountable in many respects. But I do not expect him to be accountable to me. He is accountable to himself, to be the best person and Master he can be. I can tell by observing him that he works to that. He may feel the very same things you are speaking of, but he does not answer to me. I see accountability as answering to someone, and obligation, vested interest and commitment as entirely different entities.

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RE: Vision mapping - 11/28/2006 7:33:57 AM

akisha

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Joined: 6/25/2005
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As much as i agree with the idea of vision mapping, it's not something I'd do. As it is I'm already anal retentive and an over planner in so many ways. Add that to being a perfectionist as well and you have a very high strung and stressed individual. ( No I'm not high strung and stressed, well not anymore *S*)

It took me a long time to learn to relax in so many ways. As it is, my little one i three and i'm thinking about how i'm going to get her to and from school in a year and a half.*sighs* And trust me I used to be worse LOL

I think vision mapping or writing out your goals is a good thing in two situations.

1. You are an very disorganized individual and have a problem setting and sticking to goals.
2. If you like to have things set out but are flexible enough to allow things to change and alter as they need to with out feeling like you have failed.

For someone that doesn't deal with change well to set out a set plan for the next 10 or 15 years of thier life, when there is a major upset and things don't stay on track they can lose it. It can cause extremely high stress, a sense of failure and deep depression. Structure is very good for some but taken too far by others.

< Message edited by akisha -- 11/28/2006 7:35:53 AM >

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RE: Vision mapping - 11/28/2006 8:30:19 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha

I think vision mapping or writing out your goals is a good thing in two situations.

1. You are an very disorganized individual and have a problem setting and sticking to goals.
2. If you like to have things set out but are flexible enough to allow things to change and alter as they need to with out feeling like you have failed.

For me, this process is a way to make clear what it is I THINK I want. It's not written in stone, which also means that it will change over time. I can take a look back at what I used to think and look at how I've developed. Since I go to all the trouble to write it out, I figure it's a usefull tool to share with a potential partner.

Master Fire

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The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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