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RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/1/2006 7:06:05 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: timeoutgurlie

Mercnbeth - I've just finished reading your profile, looking at the photos as well, and wow.  You two have what I'm hoping to share with my partner.  I'm very happy for you both to have found one another, you each sound like you have exactly what you need/want from another, that's something profound to see. And you two go out in public without constantly needing to be disguised as vanillas, it doesn't get any better than that!  -- No, wait...It could actually, I could have breasts that youthful at beth's age and THAT would definitely be a cherry on top, that's one lucky girl...yeah who am I kidding, that's also VERY lucky man to have her 


t-o gurlie

Thanks! We feel that way about our life and each other as well.

As far as what to call us; beth is beth and Merc, having a first name a bit too unique, is Merc until we meet. I am only a Master to beth; she is only a slave, as I define it, to me. Our protocols and titles are, for the most part, for us. The "most part" considers the imposition of beth's required 3rd party speech on others. However the choice, if grammatically offended, is not to read her.

Don't be concerned about being "well versed". That may be an impossible goal anyway. Relationships and protocols may have basic common ground but are, on closer inspection, unique with subtle nuance. As you did with us, just ask .You'll find most people active in real time will be happy to let you know, as well as answer any questions.

The 'short form' suggestion we give for those involved in a search or even those initiating a relationship can be summarized in four words; Know yourself - Don't compromise. The problem is neither offer quick solutions and neither are easy.

Take care!

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/1/2006 8:10:18 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		When I ask and was released from my first Master it was really hard to get over my submission to him.
From how I bathed, what I wore, what chores I did, and what I ate was done in ways that pleased him.
The first day in my own place again I didn't know how to even act.
It was very unsettling.
Almost like living with ghosts.
It took a few months to get him out of my head and heart and regain my life and my habits for me completely.
He and I are still friends now, but the submissive response to his voice or presence is finally no longer present. 
I say you can get over your submissiveness to someone, but it was a very emotionally stressful process.
suzanne

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/1/2006 10:56:32 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Hi again timeoutgurlie,

I just had a peek at your profile for the first time and saw that you are very young.....( I can barely remember 19, sigh..lol)

I was wondering if your partner was roughly your age too?

A lot of confidence is gained simply by having lived longer.......and perhaps, if he likes and prefers this type of dynamic in your relationship, he may *grow* into it as he gains that.. There's always the chance, of course, that he won't.....it's so very hard to know these things.

You've got a very mature outlook and approach....I wish I'd had that amount of insight into myself at your age. At least you are well placed to work through your thoughts and feelings.

With regards, agirl

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/1/2006 3:21:09 PM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		Mercnbeth - Thanks a bunch, it definitely does make sense that each relationship would use different words that suit them personally, I'm still not used to the interaction with others in the 'lifestyle', so double checking is definitely my best option   Also, those 4 words do speak volumes indeed, thanks for sharing that, and just in general I smile when I read posts buy yourself and Beth so thanks for that too

onestandingstill - Thanks for sharing that, it's comforting to know others feel there's a huge adjustment going from life within a D/s couple to being on your own and still very much a submissive.  When I look at it in a more basic way instead of tangling my feelings into the mix, it makes perfect sense, any relationship with attachments takes time to get over once it's finished, because I know that vanillas feel this as well after a breakup.

agirl - I feel that way about 16 year olds sometimes *giggles*  He's actually 6 years older than myself, we met a few years ago and the age was an issue for him once he found out I was much younger.  To make a long story short we were introduced to one another socially and I didn't look my age and neither did he.  So...he assumed I was his age, I assumed he was only a few years older, and we didn't get that cleared up until we'd been bitten and smitten already lol  He comes from a very religious background, and was saving himself for marriage, so I'm his first serious partner.  He had dated various women for very brief periods of time before me, but never had any of those relationships turn serious.  I've often wondered also if that were an issue with him, the lack of experience.  Although he is older, he's definitely less experienced than myself.  Oh, and of course thank you muchly for the kind words

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/2/2006 8:41:56 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: timeoutgurlie

agirl - I feel that way about 16 year olds sometimes *giggles*  He's actually 6 years older than myself, we met a few years ago and the age was an issue for him once he found out I was much younger.  To make a long story short we were introduced to one another socially and I didn't look my age and neither did he.  So...he assumed I was his age, I assumed he was only a few years older, and we didn't get that cleared up until we'd been bitten and smitten already lol  He comes from a very religious background, and was saving himself for marriage, so I'm his first serious partner.  He had dated various women for very brief periods of time before me, but never had any of those relationships turn serious.  I've often wondered also if that were an issue with him, the lack of experience.  Although he is older, he's definitely less experienced than myself.  Oh, and of course thank you muchly for the kind words


You're very welcome.

All these things become apparent with time which isn't very helpful if we're questing for answers right now.....lol.

You say he comes from a very religious background and I was wondering whether he is religious himself or whether he's rejected that.

Anyhow, best wishes.

agirl






(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/2/2006 10:02:52 AM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		True, a friend of mine says good things come to those who wait but by the time they here it's already too late LoL

He isn't religious in the traditional sense of churchgoing or...well...fanatical about it, but he is very spiritual and has taken parts of the religion's teaching and accepted those, and let go of whatever he felt wasn't usefull.

That hardly answers your question I'm sure, my geuss is you're asking if religious beliefs are hindering him and the answer is I'm not 100% sure but I suspect if it isn't fully hindering him it's most definitely not helping along and quicker either lol

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/5/2006 6:33:09 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		Hello timeoutgurlie,
I thought about this question of yours last night for a while.
I think what you're really asking is if it's possible for you to be in a relationship with someone who does not illicit your submissive response who cares enough about you to try to go through the motions of being your Dom to make you happy.
I really think if he's not comfortable with things to push him into it for you is not going to be a fit that makes either of you happy.
If it's not in his nature to be a little bit of a sadist or to be in charge all the desires he has to be that way for you are really in my opinion fruitless.

I think the real question you need to ask yourself is do you feel connected enough to him that you could accept him for who he is without trying to mold him into who you want him to be?

Yes, this is very assuming and opinionated of me, but I thought it needed to be considered.
suzanne 

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/5/2006 6:38:31 AM   
dskittyn22


Posts: 29
Joined: 11/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: timeoutgurlie

The shortest version would be that I feel the man I love isn't able to fully "own" me in the ways we both need, yet we love one another immensely.  I feel like we could possibly carry on a mostly vanilla relationship but it's like the submissive part of me isn't just part of me at all, it *is* me, does this make any sense?

It's as if things would be workable if there were a way for me to enjoy what we can do when we can do it, enjoy the submission part time basically...yet I can't make that change in myself.  I love him more than I can explain in words, and it's like the need for him to be happy goes beyond the typical, I do need to feel like I'm in his service daily, not just random "orders".

For him, this is his first time in this kind of relationship, and although he had many fantasies from as far back as he can remember, he felt guilt about them, and I had hoped with time he'd become comfortable but it hasn't happened, and it leaves me feeling a huge void, yet he seems generally ok with things as they are.  We've had conversations about it and we both try to work on the relationship, but things still seem to always fall short. 

Not sure any of this will make sense, but it's very difficult to talk about.  There are plenty of people in my life that I'm close enough with to share this, but they're not experienced with any of it and I feel they couldn't understand, so I'm left to try and sort it out myself and it hasn't gone well thus far obviously.

I was away from the site for months and before that had exchanged mails with people here, and though it gave me a lot to consider, in my time away I developed a lot personally, it didn't truly help the problem.  The only solution they offered was to life with the man I love as my partner, and to have another man as my Dom/Master...I couldn't do that happily.  So much as I appreciate the time they'd taken with me and it was food for thought it didn't really get me any closer to a viable solution.

Just want to see what comes from this, take my chances and see if maybe something said here will help sort anything out in my mind/heart.  If not, nothing lost really, still soulsearching within my relationship and myself until this is resolved


minus that one paragraph, you could be me. I actually had a moment where I wondered if I had somehow snuck out in my sleep and made a new account and posted this.

You have my sympathies... because I haven't figured out a solution either.

-kittyn


_____________________________

I do it for the joy it brings, 'cause I am a joyful girl, 'cause the world owes me nothing, we owe eachother the world, - Ani DiFranco

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/5/2006 9:10:17 PM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		Not enough time at this moment to give a worthy reply, but thank you both for your posts, well appreciated

(in reply to dskittyn22)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/6/2006 1:16:02 AM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill

Hello timeoutgurlie,
I thought about this question of yours last night for a while.
I think what you're really asking is if it's possible for you to be in a relationship with someone who does not illicit your submissive response who cares enough about you to try to go through the motions of being your Dom to make you happy.
I really think if he's not comfortable with things to push him into it for you is not going to be a fit that makes either of you happy.
If it's not in his nature to be a little bit of a sadist or to be in charge all the desires he has to be that way for you are really in my opinion fruitless.

I think the real question you need to ask yourself is do you feel connected enough to him that you could accept him for who he is without trying to mold him into who you want him to be?

Yes, this is very assuming and opinionated of me, but I thought it needed to be considered.
suzanne 



I appreciated "assuming and opinionated" -- if I didn't want to hear the opinions of others I would just keep doing what I'm doing and never ask for input.  I appreciate people who even bother to spend the time replying

You're right without question when you say the section I highlighted.  I'm still not entirely sure of the answer, though I love him immensely and find it hard to imagine my life without him in it as my partner, but in all honesty I don't know if I'll be entirely satisfied unless he will be my Master. 

It's a bit of a waiting game as it stands because I do understand that this is entirely new to him and that jump from feelings and fantasy of how it could be to actually living it can be a difficult transition.  He has many barriers/blocks from his childhood, and I know he wants to do the "right" thing by me and by himself.  I just have to hope that in the end he will feel completely confortable with doing things he's always wanted and be able to not feel restrictions from how he was raised and what others would think.  He just doubts himself too much right now...hopefully it's just a part of the process.

There is so much we add to one another's lives, and that in itself is something many don't find with anyone, it's special and sacred as it stands, but I think we could both have more, I'm just not certain yet that he feels that way too.  So for now, I accept that he does want more and he is looking forward to it as well, it's all I can do for the moment and I guess if the time does come to move on I'll feel certain about that direction.

Thanks for your post

ds - Now I'm curious, minus which one paragraph?  Sorry to hear you're facing the same difficulties/questions, and if nothing else then I'm happy at least this thread is here to show you that there are others going through the same.  If I find a solution, I'll let you know, and vice versa, how's that? *giggles*

Thanks for your reply, wish you the best with your relationship as well

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/6/2006 10:38:14 AM   
LittleMissSub


Posts: 46
Joined: 2/23/2005
Status: offline 		ok i haven't read everyone's replies in detail so i'm sorry if i'm saying things that have already been said.

if your man is religious, it's going to take some time for his perspective to change.  imagine seeing blue as blue your whole life, and at 25 someone says, no, that's not blue.  it's red.  it's going to take some time to adjust.  what's been dirty his whole life, sinful his whole life, is actually ok.  it's going to take some time to shift his perspective.  so be patient.  he's still growing into the man that he's going to be.  if he's really religious then maybe try to incorporate the whole man over woman thing that the bible likes to cultivate.  but i don't know if using examples from something you're trying to stear him away from in certain aspects will be good.

you have to communicate.  that's what i didn't know to do when i was your age (i'm 25 now) in relationships.  no one ever teaches you how to function in relationships.  so you figure it out on  your own and flounder through.  usually majorly fucking up your first few.  my best words of advice to give are to communicate.  tell him that some women like flowers, candy and back rubs. that instead of those things, or in addition to them you like _______, ________ and ______.  know yourself, love yourself, respect yourself and your desires.  if you don't feel ashamed of who and what you are, why should there be a need to hide?  know you are strong enough to deal with whatever consequences there are to your actions and you won't be afraid to act.  communicate, talk, be open with one another.  the time to be shy is over.  get over yourself, they're just words.  know what i mean?  if you two can't trust each other enough to talk about what you want, how can you possibly trust each other enough to do the things you won't talk about?  cause that's the issue...it's trust...his shyness is really "will she tell anyone?  will she judge me?"

take some time to think about what's most important to you.  is it the service aspect of submission, are they just sexual things?  what is it that you need the most, right now, that he can try and work on first.  they should be the most basic fundamental things, so that you can build from there. 


(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/7/2006 4:07:46 AM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		LittleMiss - Thanks a lot for your post, we've already began a lot fo the work that you mentioned, and I agree that we need to keep going with it and see where it leads us.

I have been impatient to a degree with him, and the replies here have opened my eyes to that, and agree with many of you that I need to give him more time and encourage each of us to explore what it is we want/need and whether we can get that from one another.  I wouldn't want to be pushing him too hard any more than I'd want to be left feeling like he's not meeting my needs enough.

I picked up some idea from other parts of the forums as well, and we've been doing more of the things we'd just been talking about up to this point, so that's some huge progress in a short time.  In the end I had my own insecurities to deal with as well as he does, so we're coming together more, no pun intended *giggles* 

Things feel like they're getting better and will continue to get better, so I'm grateful for the site and what I can learn here from more experienced couples who've faced the same 'glitches'.

Thanks for your post

(in reply to LittleMissSub)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/8/2006 5:47:51 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Thanks for that.  He's very private and very shy; even though he has fantasies of sex in "public" and he knows how much I would enjoy it too, he refuses because sex should be "private"...by public I don't even mean in an exhibitionistic way where people would surely see, but just somewhere outdoors.

So why not start with inside, shades open and lights on. Move to the back yard. You're still "in your element" and yet can try something new.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/8/2006 6:22:47 PM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		theRose - There was a time when the drapes were open, and we tend to do it with the lights on anyhow (thank God he's never had problems with that, yikes lol) and he was pretty upset about it afterward when he saw the windows.  We were having a quicky so had no time to really do anything 'kinky', it was maybe a "rough" version of vanilla sex, but vanilla all the same, and he was very anxious about the windows.

I'm still waiting for sex in the sports car...in the garage, so we'll see when he's ready to take that step.  Backyard, I've tried, and even just straddling him in the backyard makes him anxious...despite approx. 8 feet of fence

I can see things close to home, him being anxious, it bothers me more that he still feels that when we're 3 hours from home, or worse, a 12 hour flight away from home.  "People" seeing bothers him.  I can't quite wrap my brain around it, what are the chances we'll actually be confronted again in life by the same people we were 'caught' having sex in some deserted parking lot by in Italy when we live in New Jersey, you know? 

He's a complicated man at times, damn lucky he makes being with him so worthwhile that I put up with his foibles  lol

Anyhow, thanks for the reply, as usual I do see the sense in your logic...but persuading him is altogether a different venture

(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/9/2006 6:57:37 PM   
Fawne


Posts: 462
Status: offline 		Greetings,
I don't "want" to be submissive.

I just am. I can't help it... so here I am. I give up and please?... take me.
 
Outside: I am friendly, social, but can be shy. At work, I am often told I have strong leadership potential.

Inside: I lust for BDSM. All my sexual fantasies involve  a powerful, firm -  yet loving, dominant man... whatever he wants ... as I revel in wet, orgasmic passion... doing all obediently for His pleasure.

Yes, I do think it is a sane healthy lifestyle. but sometimes.. i think I am freakin' crazy for being such a insatiable bottom

Does that answer your question, dear?

a smile, fawne

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/20/2006 3:14:05 AM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		Fawne - Yes, it does, and you don't sound crazy...you'll see there are many who feel the way you do here, give it a few hours *giggles*

Thanks for the reply

(in reply to Fawne)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/20/2006 7:56:26 AM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		I definietly think that you are right in giving the relationship more time.
I think it takes time to lose the vanilla person and become who you are underneath.
I wonder if it would help him to really talk through some of his fantasies with you.
Sort of role play them with words before doing it for real.
I may find it necessary to do that with a new slave over some scenes. Especially if they involve any kind of edge play. To make sure that I am not going to push the wrong psychological buttons.
Once he knows that you are on the same wave length then I am sure he will become more confident.
It's all about confidence and experience of actually doing something, gives one that confidence.
I entered the lifestyle as a submissive. Lots of people do. It took me ages to work out that this was against my nature and that all I had to do was be confident in who I am.
It sounds as if your Dom hasn't got to that point.
I'm sure he will though if you help him.
It's only natural for him to be worried about hurting or offending you because he loves you.
I wish my first Dom had cared a little more about me and less about himself lol.
Your Dom sounds like a wonderful man it is so easy to go too far and actually abuse someone when you are inexperienced.
I know I did it.
However I also played with a wonderful submissive woman who taught me a great deal and helped my confidence no end.
You are lucky. You have your Dom who is also your vanilla partner. Please don't put your relationship in jeapody by looking for your kink with someone else. It might destroy him as a man and as a Dom.
If he is not used to being dominant it will take time. The more submissive you are to him the more confident he will be. Try not to make the decisions. Or if you can't not then think about becoming his Domme lol. If it is more natural that way around then you can instruct him to do all the things to you that you want him to do.
Whatever works best in your relationship.

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/20/2006 1:23:52 PM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		T.O.G - The advice to be patient is excellent, but not just for the reasons that 'he may change.' 

At 19, the odds of you being with this man are rather slim.  When I was 19, I was living in Okinawa, Japan.  I couldn't have been able to even place Chile in the right place on the map.  Since then I've lived in Virginia, Ohio, Arizona, Michigan (where I was born), finished my time in the Marines, finished my time in college, worked more than a dozen jobs, and lived in twice that many different apartments.  I can only pray you don't go through that much change, but you'll certainly go through some, as will he.

One of the mistakes I made for a long time was wondering when I was going to meet the 'perfect' girl.  Great girls would come along, I'd date them for a while, and then we'd grow apart.  Some girls would be exciting, some would be interesting, some would be thought provoking.  Something that finally came to me, is that no girl will come out of the box, 100% perfect.  That, in having flaws and lacking in qualities that I thought were important, she would actually exceed my hopes.  It didn't happen in the first week, or even the first year (though a lot of the time, it felt that way.)

I'm not promising this will happen with your partner.  I'm suggesting that instead of approaching the relationship you're in as the last you'll ever have, approach it as the one you have now, with a man you love very much.  Give it time, space, and love to grow, and see what happens.  Let him know of your fears occasionally, but don't dwell on it.  If in a year or three you still feel underwhelmed or unsatisfied, give him the honor he deserves by parting ways - there's nothing worse than saying 'forever' only to spend five uneventful years followed by two kids and a divorce.  Fortunately, you two have a long time ahead before you have to worry about that.


_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to lateralist1)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/20/2006 8:53:41 PM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		lateralist - Thanks a bunch for that reply.  That's really interesting that you came into all this as a submissive and then gained confidence and became dominant.  What you've said is true, he is a phenomenally great man, I've met plenty of great people in life, I've been very blessed with quality individuals around me, and he's likely the greatest of them all.  I have no plans of going elsewhere for anything, I respect poly relationships but they're not right for me personally; I'm dedicated to one man at a time *giggles*  He is getting 'better' with time, this site gave me some ideas and we've discussed them and gone through with a few and I think it's helping to build confidence for him and myself also, so it's doing a lot of good for each of us, and of course for us a couple.  Still a far way to go, but we have plenty of time and now that the insecurities on both sides are slowly being conquered the journey through the growth is very satisfying in and of itself.  Happy that you were led to what makes you happy, wish you the best, thanks for your post

Voltare - Thanks for your reply, I understand what you're saying, the chances we'll be together forever may be slim, I know very well nothing is guaranteed in life.  I've been sure before, and then looking back I can see that what I thought was the deepest of love was only the deepest love that I had known to that point.  This could be another rung in the ladder and not be the last, and that's ok.  We're taking things day by day and planning a lifetime together, but I see what you're saying and we've had many discussions about it and agreed we wouldn't stay together out of convenience or comfort, that we owe one another and ourselves better than that. 

Things have changed a great deal since I made the first post in this thread, and some of that change finds it's roots in what I've read here on the forums, so thanks to all who took the time to reply and share their thoughts.  I appreciate everyone here and wish you all the best in your lives and relationships

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Getting "Over" Submission - 12/26/2006 4:55:07 PM   
Zsuzsanna


Posts: 108
Joined: 12/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

Greetings,

for this girl the answer is no.
once her sleeping belly was awoke. she could not go back to living any other way


i am with you on this. there is no turning it off, not for me.

_____________________________

"Somewhere Ralphie smiles and says enjoy her every cry." Tori Amos

(in reply to fyreredsub)
Profile   Post #: 40
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