Getting "Over" Submission (Full Version)

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timeoutgurlie -> Getting "Over" Submission (11/28/2006 4:04:42 AM)

Anyone have any stories of someone "overcoming" their submissiveness?

The deep kind, the kind that's always been within a person, the kind that's grown and developed monumentally during a relationship with sincere love...

Not sure that anyone here would have a personal experience with this, if you did why would you stick around sort of idea, but I'm feeling very unsure lately and just thought I don't have anything to lose by inquiring.

Not sure if this question even will make sense to anyone actually...not sure I understand what I'm looking for myself at this point.

Thanks [:)]




mistoferin -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/28/2006 4:10:38 AM)

Wow...it's hard to tell what you have going on there from your post. I guess my first response would be why would anyone "want" to get over it. Or are we talking about something unhealthy here that is getting mixed up with submission? Or maybe the just normal fleeting uncertainty that we all get from time to time about ourselves?




timeoutgurlie -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/28/2006 5:06:18 AM)

I'll have to give more thought to how to put it into words without it being an epic and daunting thread to read.

The fact you said the words 'normal fleeting uncertainty' gives me some comfort till then, so thanks a bunch for that [:D]




MasterFireMaam -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/28/2006 7:04:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: timeoutgurlie

Anyone have any stories of someone "overcoming" their submissiveness?

The deep kind, the kind that's always been within a person, the kind that's grown and developed monumentally during a relationship with sincere love...

Not sure that anyone here would have a personal experience with this, if you did why would you stick around sort of idea, but I'm feeling very unsure lately and just thought I don't have anything to lose by inquiring.

Not sure if this question even will make sense to anyone actually...not sure I understand what I'm looking for myself at this point.

Thanks [:)]


"Overcoming" to me says that you WANT to NOT be submissive anymore. Is this true? From the rest of the post, it seems that you are more worried about "loosing" your submissiveness.

Overcoming something entails changing attitudes and behavior patterns into new ones. Regaining something you've lost means doing the same thing, but with the intent of reestablishing old patterns. Which is it that you're tying to do or afraid of doing?

Master Fire




MmakeMme -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/28/2006 8:19:41 AM)

Although your word choice can be debated, I think it is perfectly  natural to question yourself. We are not creatures in stasis - the only thing that remains the same is change. Accept it, embrace it, and move forward.




timeoutgurlie -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/29/2006 1:33:46 AM)

The shortest version would be that I feel the man I love isn't able to fully "own" me in the ways we both need, yet we love one another immensely.  I feel like we could possibly carry on a mostly vanilla relationship but it's like the submissive part of me isn't just part of me at all, it *is* me, does this make any sense?

It's as if things would be workable if there were a way for me to enjoy what we can do when we can do it, enjoy the submission part time basically...yet I can't make that change in myself.  I love him more than I can explain in words, and it's like the need for him to be happy goes beyond the typical, I do need to feel like I'm in his service daily, not just random "orders".

For him, this is his first time in this kind of relationship, and although he had many fantasies from as far back as he can remember, he felt guilt about them, and I had hoped with time he'd become comfortable but it hasn't happened, and it leaves me feeling a huge void, yet he seems generally ok with things as they are.  We've had conversations about it and we both try to work on the relationship, but things still seem to always fall short. 

I feel like he could really do the things I'm looking for if it were with someone else, someone he didn't love, and I've told him before to put the love adise and know that it's ok to do the things he wants because I want them also, but it's like the mental block is there and he can't get past it...as if because we're in love he can't disrespect me or abuse me.  It wouldn't be either disrespect or abuse but I believe this is how his mind's perceiving it, and he loves and cares for me too much to do all this "bad" things to me.

Not sure any of this will make sense, but it's very difficult to talk about.  There are plenty of people in my life that I'm close enough with to share this, but they're not experienced with any of it and I feel they couldn't understand, so I'm left to try and sort it out myself and it hasn't gone well thus far obviously.

I was away from the site for months and before that had exchanged mails with people here, and though it gave me a lot to consider, in my time away I developed a lot personally, it didn't truly help the problem.  The only solution they offered was to life with the man I love as my partner, and to have another man as my Dom/Master...I couldn't do that happily.  So much as I appreciate the time they'd taken with me and it was food for thought it didn't really get me any closer to a viable solution.

Just want to see what comes from this, take my chances and see if maybe something said here will help sort anything out in my mind/heart.  If not, nothing lost really, still soulsearching within my relationship and myself until this is resolved [:)]




Mercnbeth -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/29/2006 6:23:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: timeoutgurlie

...Anyone have any stories of someone "overcoming" their submissiveness?

The deep kind, the kind that's always been within a person, the kind that's grown and developed monumentally during a relationship with sincere love...


yeah, well, attempting to dominate one's own self is not an easy task when one is deep within submissive,but it can be done...this slave was trained from an early age NOT to dominate herself, that was someone elses responsibility...in spite of that, there were occasions where learning to act the dominant part was necessary.  patience and practice help alot. so does using a mirror, so your facial expressions and gestures are convincing to others[;)]
 
pretending to dominate people has always caused this slave a great deal of stress and angst...there is no desire within whatsoever to control another person or a relationship, in fact, it's not just mentally but physically repulsive.
this slave got to a point, early thirties, when she halted ALL intimate personal relationship activity because it always ended up empty, instead of filled from the service, sexual and relationship-wise. absolutely NONE of the vanilla folk this slave ever hooked up with "got it", as in, made the connection to appreciate the kink as well as the submissiveness.  they all said sick!!!, can't do that!!!!, wanted her to dominate them, etc. it wasn't "normal" or "right" or "healthy"...so be it, kicked this thing called "love" in the teeth, threw hands up and for the first time, flew solo.

quote:

...not sure I understand what I'm looking for myself at this point...


neither was this slave so she imposed a rule of solitude, and did a LOAD of soul-searching, information gathering, meditation and prayer...and after 3 years of that went about looking for a change of "lifestyle" thanks to an anti-smoking Doctor.  this slave stumbled upon this D/s M/s BDSM idea and has had the good fortune to meet a few like minded folk, with regards to their relationship styles and sexual proclivities, so secure in themselves and the knowledge of what they wanted in a relationship and what made them happy(regardless of what they might have been taught by others or society) that they could communicate openly about it and participate in a D/s or M/s relationship without insecurity or guilt, but confidence and joy.  this slave found acceptance, friendship, camaradarie, fabulous sexual experiences and without even looking for it, love and an intensely fulfilling relationship with Master!
that's not to say this slave didn't also find folks with the same sort of confusion, intolerance, insecurity or abuse potential that exists with vanilla-minded folk, but the good has definitely outweighed the bad.[:)]




fyreredsub -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/29/2006 6:38:03 AM)

Greetings,

for this girl the answer is no.
once her sleeping belly was awoke. she could not go back to living any other way
which was an odd realization because she could take or leave being a Top as it wasnt being true to her nature.

wishing you well




gretchenS -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/29/2006 8:49:32 AM)

Giving up the lifestyle to make the man you love happy in a vanilla relationship sounds very submissive to me.

In reality, you don't need the lifestyle to be submissive. Being submissive is part of your personality, and you can do submissive things or feel submissive even in a vanilla relationship.

My dad chose to be submissive to my mom. He adores, obeys and serves her in their every day life. They have no idea what BDSM or D/s dynamic is. This doesn't make of my dad a less submissive person or my mom a less dominant person.

In my opinion, a Dominant/submissive dynamic is the best way to go as a BDSM couple or a vanilla couple. It doesn't really matter, specially if the couple is happy and blessed with love. And, again, you can't get over submission if it's part of your personality.

Maybe what you are really missing is the kinky part. To make him like it or do it with you is your (both of you) choice. I guess it takes time and patience. And you can get over  the kinky part, but you are going to miss it badly and pushing him to do it will only tear you apart. So, patience... I guess.




timeoutgurlie -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/30/2006 5:36:40 AM)

Mercnbeth - I had to read your post 3 times, because at first I couldn't see how what you were telling me had anything to do with the situation I'm in, but I *think* now I've caught on, finally lol  To try and ignore the fact that I don't just want to submit, but do so be default in a relationship won't work and what I may need to do is 'overcome' the hope for my relationship to work in a vanilla dynamic rather than trying to overcome my submissiveness.  If I'm wrong, then I'm hoping it can be attributed to sleep and I will reread the post until I finally get it right lol  Thanks for sharing your story, and I'm very happy for you that you've found exactly what you needed and wanted all along, that's fantastic [:D]

gretchen - I'd never thought of it that way, but I see the sense in what you're saying, and maybe what I need is more patience.

Thanks a lot for the replies everyone, I greatly appreciate them.  After skimming more threads in this section, I've seen that I'm definitely not alone in the feelings I have of being very much in love but wishing that the one I'm with had turned out to be as dominant as he felt before we met, and that's reassuring in itself that I'm not the only one.  It's always somewhat naive to assume the problems you have are had only by yourself, but without anyone in my life besides my partner who would understand the 'lifestyle' it's impossible to know how anyone else would feel in this situation.  Happy to now know that this isn't something unheard of and that other are coping with and trying to figure out the same issues.

Thanks again to everyone here [:D]




beltainefaerie -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/30/2006 6:52:43 AM)

In addition to what others have said, I am interested to know if you have gone to any sort of lectures, workshops, demonstrations, or events in your local BDSM community.  If such events are available to you, you might see if such inspiration bridged the gap between fanasy, which you say your dear one has, and the reality you would like to see in your lives.  Another suggestion would be to find a local play party to attend together.  I highly recommend that the first time you just watch and get a sense of the location, the energy, the dynamics of the people involved.  It could be that watching the scenes others are having would be inspiring.  It could be that since you think he doesn't want to do "bad" things to you because of the love, that maybe there would be someone in the community willing to guide him through this.  This has worked for other people I have known.
I guess I am also wondering how much you have talked about this together.  It sounds like these are actually his fantasies, but he is having trouble with acting them out, maybe do to society's influence.  In case you haven't had a lot of communication on the subject and you just think that his love interfering with desires causes the trouble, I did want to share this:
Simply from my personal experience, I believed that my husband could be a good dominant, but did not want to do "bad" things to me.  After a lot of communication we discovered that this was not his kink.  Plenty of people have relationships where they indulge one anothers bedroom fantasies, without being as into it as the other person and I'm told that works well for them.  However, it is extremely important for me that the person actually take joy in hitting me, etc.  Just being tied up and flogged served my needs as a masochist, but not as a submissive.  There was no joy in it for me, because he was not being served, and in fact made me feel like I was the dominant, since my desires were running the scene.    I now have a separate Master and that works well for us.  We are all friends and there is open communication between all involved.  You said this wouldn't work for you, but we had to think about it seriously as a couple before we decided it was a step we needed to take.  
I hope some of these suggestions/stories have been helpful to you.  Good luck as you find your path!




agirl -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/30/2006 7:55:21 AM)

Quite a few things there to be considered.

I'm not loved in the usual *sense* of the word, so will be seeing it from a different angle.

Are you saying that he can't thrash you because he loves you too much?

Are there any confident dominant chaps here that he could speak to?.....ie Focus, Level, Padraig, LaM, Merc, KoM, Crappydom, CreativeDom to mention but a few.

Is it your *submissive thing* that needs adressing or his *dominant thing*?

agirl












timeoutgurlie -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/30/2006 8:16:45 AM)

Thanks for that.  He's very private and very shy; even though he has fantasies of sex in "public" and he knows how much I would enjoy it too, he refuses because sex should be "private"...by public I don't even mean in an exhibitionistic way where people would surely see, but just somewhere outdoors.

We've talked about it all at length and he's assured me this is what he wants, but that it's difficult to take action because something about it just doesn't feel right.  I've often felt like a failure, like he would easily do this with someone else but doesn't enjoy doing it with me but that's since passed and I do believe him when he says if he were to do it with anyone it would be me, but the level of comfort within himself is just not there.

We talked briefly about going to parties, but his shyness wouldn't allow it.

It's a difficult situation for each of us, just for different reasons.  I've asked him numerous times if it's something he feels is missing, and he appears to not really feel the void, so I get what you're saying about feeling like if it were happening it would be my needs/wants controlling what we're doing rather than serving him, and that's where it becomes unfulfilling for me.  I suppose he's fulfilled enough that with everyday life I am serving his needs and desires, and he doesn't truly need anything beyond that. 

Though I love and cherish that type of constant service to him, I do want more, so for now it looks like patience is my only option.  I'll think about mentioning the parties again and see how he feels about it, that was quite a while ago when we discussed it, maybe he'd be more open to it now.

Thanks, and happy to hear you've found what works for you [:D]




timeoutgurlie -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/30/2006 8:22:53 AM)

agirl - Not even sure how to answer that, it's probably a little of both really, I'm sure in the end we'll both have to work on this equally.

Considering how private he is, I never thought of asking if he'd want to be in touch with an experienced dominant, but maybe that would be ok since it's not as if he'd be face to face and feeling strange about talking, maybe since it would all be in type he'd feel comfortable.

It's a good idea, I'll keep it in mind and talk to him about it, then if he's willing start up a thread in the dom/master forum and see what comes from it, thanks for the suggestion [:D]




agirl -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/30/2006 10:05:47 AM)

I'm really private too......easily embarrassed etc. in ways.

It's FINE this way round, because my Master can do whatever he chooses, whether I have a prudy fit about it or not.......he's the driving force. If he wants to tie me to a tree somewhere, whip me and fuck me........it'll happen. I may be dying a thousand deaths because I can hear voices in the distance or imagine that I can.....but it'll still happen.

From your posts, it seems as if HE is the one with the worries and inhibitions.........and you*want more*.... though you haven't said quite what the *more* is.

I'll take a guess here..........Do you wish that he was confident and bold in all of his choices, that he'd be confident enough in himself to act on the things that he might like to do, without all the angst? ....that you were the one saying * Yikes Master!..Must I!!?*.

I'm not even submissive....I think that if I WAS, it would be even MORE important that I had utter confidence that HE was confident and comfortable with himself.

I have had husbands that were happy with *having their needs and desires fulfilled* in an everyday sense....... Good heavens,  not many chaps would turn that down.......I suppose that a person whose bent is *serving* would get a great deal from that .......my expereince is that there are very few people that actually thrive on it without the dominance to support, fuel it....plus the confidence to expect it.

agirl.







Mercnbeth -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/30/2006 11:36:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: timeoutgurlie
...Mercnbeth - I had to read your post 3 times, because at first I couldn't see how what you were telling me had anything to do with the situation I'm in, but I *think* now I've caught on, finally lol  To try and ignore the fact that I don't just want to submit, but do so be default in a relationship won't work and what I may need to do is 'overcome' the hope for my relationship to work in a vanilla dynamic rather than trying to overcome my submissiveness.  If I'm wrong, then I'm hoping it can be attributed to sleep and I will reread the post until I finally get it right lol ...


there have been several threads here about "inspiring Dominance" in a partner, or how to get one's submissive needs met when one feels they aren't...if that is what you are after, others might be better able to help you in that regard as this slave hasn't had that issue with Master, personally.
 
on the other hand, a small book could be compiled on this slave's dealings with vanillas.  this slave tired of the frustration, confusion and even allowed abuse from sadistic-minded "dominant-veneer" vanilla men who had no context for their sadism, no sadistic or dominant sexual arousal that didn't also come with a heavy dose of guilt and shame that society and their upbringing taught them.  they also thought that the woman who enjoyed humiliation or pain in a sexual way, must be sick and they were very uncomfortable with having a vanilla relationship with such a woman.
 
the way this slave sees it, there are the "that's sick" and "this isn't right" people who's stomachs and minds heave when they even think about just about everything that gets discussed here on this board of a BDSM, D/s and M/s nature.  that's their way, their path, and more power to them...those are the ones this slave refers to as "vanillas", and although, through love or some other miracle one might convince one of these vanillas that it's not so bad, on a basic level, they just aren't into it.  they might do it to appease you, might tolerate you engaging with another to get your needs met on that level and maintain the relationship with you, heck, some might even learn to enjoy it![:)]
 
then comes the jump quite a few vanillas make from "that's sick"...to "you're sick, you need help, therapy and pharmaceutical intervention so that you can enjoy vanilla sex and a societally accepted relationship dynamic, here take this pill, the Dr. will see you at your next regularly scheduled visit for the rest of your life[:'(] OR..... as long as you are only doing it on the weekends in the privacy of your locked room, and by GOD, don't refer to yourself as a slave, welllllllllllllll, then it's ok."
 
personally, this slave decided to embrace her nature and her nurture, ignore the psycho-babble and look for service everywhere---hence the reference in the previous post to the imposed solitude from intimate personal relationships.  this slave served everyone and every organization that crossed her path during those three years and yet called no-one Master or even significant other, and it was extremely fulfilling.
 
stumbling across this "lifestyle" was a personal blessing.  it finally allowed for this slave's sexual proclivities to be accepted and also expanded her into a circle of contact with people who had like minded ideas about intimate personal relationship dynamics that this slave had always sought acceptance of as well.
 
this slave was not looking for a Master---not looking to be referred to as slave or end the use of I, me, my and mine from her vocabulary.  just giving the idea of intimate personal relationship another look, with the hard limit being--CAN'T DO VANILLA--and followed her path to where she is now.
 
best of luck to you!




BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (11/30/2006 1:53:00 PM)

This article has a section about the issue of a man not wanting to "hit" a woman.

http://www.submissiveloving.com/Domsview.html

The only thing I can offer up, which isn't much, is to say that love cannot always conquer all.  We can love someone with every fiber of our being, but if our needs aren't being met in a relationship, or if we simply aren't suited to each other due to having needs that just can't be met by our partner.... well I see a relationship that could become overwhelmed with guilt and/or bitterness. And that applies to any type of relationship BDSM or vanilla. 


I wish you both the best.




timeoutgurlie -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (12/1/2006 12:57:36 AM)

agirl - I can definitely feel pangs of what you said you could imagine a submissive feeling, which is that I do want him to be confident in his control.  I hadn't ever thought of it as basic as that, I always intertwine so many feelings it becomes a jumble, but that's definitely a large chunk of what I'm feeling conflict with.  I do feel like I want him in full control, and it's as if he doesn't trust himself enough to do that perhaps, and it leaves me feeling somewhat shakey.  We make virtually all decision jointly, and I'd have to honestly say actually that when it comes down to it he gives me the final say in many matters.  I appreciate this solely because I know he is unsure, but definitely do crave a relationship where the decisions are his and where I could still voice my feelings but in the end it's understood the choice is ultimately his and we BOTH trust that completely.  It's hard to understand wheteher deep down he just doesn't trust this in himself yet because he's never been used to making decision for himself entirely nevermind for himself and another as well...or maybe he just never wants it to go that far.  He says he does, and I believe that he does to some degree, but is that in fantasy and he'd like to keep it at that level or does he truly want and need more also?  I'm not certain he even knows the answer, I trust he'd be honest with me, but he'd need to feel sure in order to give me the purest/core answer.

Mercnbeth - I'd say I'm feeling a lot fo what I'm seeing in other threads about wanting to, as you said, "inspire dominance" in him, but also trying to see if my needs will be deeper and maybe I need that "solo" time you speak of.  At the moment though I can't imagine being without him and feel like I'll have to be sure I've exhausted every viable option before I let this go.  We've talked about growing old together, we've talked about living our dreams together...it's too soon yet to let all of the things that have joined us go.  I guess I'm just wanting to hear from others to see what feelings I share with them and what rings true for me, nothing that could really make or break a decision just yet, but hearing from others' experience does give food for thought and brings up possibilities to talk with him about.  I've unfortunately heard the "that's sick/you're sick" also, but never from him, so hopefully this is a good sign and we'll grow into this together with more time. 

BR - Not quite enough time just now to read through the article, but looks like it will be very interesting, thanks for including it.  And I do agree that love itself is never enough, compatibility has to surpass just love alone for a relationship to work, and agree too this isn't just a BDSM & D/s rule but for any romantic relationship.

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences, even though this is the only kind of relationship I've ever identified with and being submissive is all I've ever known, I do know compared many here I'm very "new" to all of this, and appreciate the words of wisdom from some who have been through any of the feelings I'm struggling with now, thanks for your time [:D]




timeoutgurlie -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (12/1/2006 5:03:09 AM)

Mercnbeth - I've just finished reading your profile, looking at the photos as well, and wow.  You two have what I'm hoping to share with my partner.  I'm very happy for you both to have found one another, you each sound like you have exactly what you need/want from another, that's something profound to see. And you two go out in public without constantly needing to be disguised as vanillas, it doesn't get any better than that!  -- No, wait...It could actually, I could have breasts that youthful at beth's age and THAT would definitely be a cherry on top, that's one lucky girl...yeah who am I kidding, that's also VERY lucky man to have her [:D]




timeoutgurlie -> RE: Getting "Over" Submission (12/1/2006 5:06:51 AM)

Mercnbeth -- Sorry, just one more thing, you refer to yourself as "this slave" and so on, what's the proper way for others to address you?

I'm not very well versed on the majority of terms, titles and protocols, definitely would like to know the proper ones as they arise [:D]




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