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When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/14/2005 1:11:55 PM   
CuteNSassy


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From: Barrie
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[font="Verdana"]There are a few thinkings I want to ask... What can you do when your Sir crosses the line.... How do you tell them to stop with out push the boundaries.... What can you do about it.... Please help I would love to know...


Thanks Cute
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/14/2005 1:21:53 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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COMMUNICATION. You talk with him. You always have your safeword. If you're meaning he breaks your hard limits, then he is not a Dom, but a user.

That being said.. you are a sub, right? You're there to have your boundaries pushed and stretched? Are you there to please you or him? Think about it.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to CuteNSassy)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/14/2005 1:38:45 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
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quote:

What can you do when your Sir crosses the line...


If he is abusing you, you can leave. If not, then talk about it.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to CuteNSassy)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/14/2005 3:13:28 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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I agree with Beach, talk to him. I disagree with her when she says your boundries are meant to be pushed.
My opinion is not the popular one when it comes to pushing limits. However, my dom knew who I was when we met. If he wanted someone different he should have chosen differently in the first place. So, if he did start pushing them I'd walk away.
To me it is the sign of a weak individual who pushes limits. As I said my opinion is not popular amoung many. Then some it is...so dunno.
Talk, talk and then talk.

(in reply to CuteNSassy)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/14/2005 3:26:21 PM   
RealityFix


Posts: 156
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To my way of thinking, I find one who matches my needs closely to begin with.

Then there is no arrogant need in me to "push someone's boundaries" later on. I feel that if a sub states she has specific things that will violate her ethics, or prove traumatic to her,the Dominant should show enough self control to avoid doing damage.

I would want to be told if something was going to jepordize my relationship,rather than just cluelessy *assuming* that because I happen to be on top, I can have anything I desire..Like some spoiled child who cannot grasp the concept "no".

Usually when I see a Dominant profess that boundaries are made to be pushed,it is indicative of an emotional immaturity that is very child like..And self centered beyond all reason. I feel that this is self destructive in the long run for a Dominant who wishes to have stable relationships. And I do get very tired at seeing the strings of broken "toys" these half assed twits leave in thier wake.

I wish they would grow up.

As far as your Sir,let him know that he treads on thin ice if he persists in this. And that being Dominant gives Him no mandate to doing HARM to another.

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/14/2005 4:28:58 PM   
conflicted


Posts: 140
Joined: 10/31/2004
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quote:

COMMUNICATION. You talk with him. You always have your safeword. If you're meaning he breaks your hard limits, then he is not a Dom, but a user.


quote:

If he is abusing you, you can leave.


quote:

And I do get very tired at seeing the strings of broken "toys" these half assed twits leave in thier wake.


These are all very excellent points.

i do think it odd however that a safe-word or when to use it seems not to have been discussed with you.
i realise not everyone has them, or the colour system, but your Master should also know YOU, your limits, your boundaries and while He might give those boundaries a bit of a nudge, He should have enough repect for you to stop if He sees you are having trouble.

JMO...ps sorry if my responding in the Master's forum has offended.

n

(in reply to RealityFix)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/14/2005 4:37:10 PM   
CuteNSassy


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From: Barrie
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Thank you to all... I will let him read this....

Cute

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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/14/2005 7:57:48 PM   
FangsNfeet


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A sub letting her Dom read something. that's cute.

Just how is he crossing the line. Accidently, getting caried away, or just wanting to do it for the hell of it? That's the big question. I seriously doubt there's such a thing as Dom who never swung or hit with something too hard.

Either way the two of you have to be honest with setting these limits. It's the only way the two of you will be happy in the relationship.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to CuteNSassy)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/14/2005 9:13:56 PM   
TolerableCruelty


Posts: 447
Joined: 2/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuteNSassy

[font="Verdana"]There are a few thinkings I want to ask... What can you do when your Sir crosses the line.... How do you tell them to stop with out push the boundaries.... What can you do about it.... Please help I would love to know...


Thanks Cute




this from a girl that 11 minutes prior posted in the "ask a sub/slave" forum how she can get ideas for her master to punish her ??

*shakes My head*

-Trav-

(in reply to CuteNSassy)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/14/2005 11:12:00 PM   
Gideon147


Posts: 25
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TolerableCruelty, I'm new to this message board but have been active in the lifestyle for over eight years. It sounds like this relationship between the two of Tthem lacks guidance and maturity. Many that become healthy relationships begin in similar ways.

I think it would be interesting if We had a conversation with her Dom. I have a tough time getting past the part about the slave fishing for ideas. Though they can contribute, should not the Dom/me be the guiding force?

Gideon

(in reply to TolerableCruelty)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/15/2005 6:51:43 AM   
Zensee


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A submissive should have a clear, self knowledge of their needs and limits before they get in too deep. So should a Dominant, for that matter. What each brings to the negotiation is different in nature. You might think of it as the submissive provides the map (the realm of present possibilities) and the Dominant chooses destinations and navigates.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gideon147

I have a tough time getting past the part about the slave fishing for ideas. Though they can contribute, should not the Dom/me be the guiding force?

Gideon



_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to Gideon147)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/15/2005 10:21:15 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gideon147

TolerableCruelty, I'm new to this message board but have been active in the lifestyle for over eight years. It sounds like this relationship between the two of Tthem lacks guidance and maturity. Many that become healthy relationships begin in similar ways.

I think it would be interesting if We had a conversation with her Dom. I have a tough time getting past the part about the slave fishing for ideas. Though they can contribute, should not the Dom/me be the guiding force?

Gideon


Or, it could be she just had a few questions. "Too far" is a pretty general term, and could mean anything from emotional strain, to unexpected changes in the relationship, to not knowing about safe words, to simply too many inches on a rubber snake.

Stephan


_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to Gideon147)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/15/2005 12:03:21 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
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quote:

I think it would be interesting if We had a conversation with her Dom. I have a tough time getting past the part about the slave fishing for ideas. Though they can contribute, should not the Dom/me be the guiding force?


Who are you and the rest of you to judge that she isn't following an order by asking?

I think fangs summed it up the best, a sub letting her dom read something. That just says a lot..and not in a good way either.

I don't know what the case is but I'm not ignorant to assume that I do. I know at times I am told to do certain things in which I feel uncomfortable doing. Like smacking alledged dominants hands at parties I host for one. Yet, when you are submissive you follow an order period.

(in reply to Gideon147)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/15/2005 4:14:15 PM   
Gideon147


Posts: 25
Joined: 1/7/2005
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Who am I? Who are you? your question alone makes a presumption. And it's a "presumption" that you're chastising U/us for making. I'm not ashamed of not feeling the need to apologize for that. But you're right, that I should not have been as quick about My post, and explained a couple of points further.

You need to know that you misunderstand, sub4hire. If I wanted to be critical, I would have been plainly, clearly, and outright critical. There's no point in mincing words about it. I did not observe that she was doing anything wrong by posting.

I said I had a tough time getting past that "part" (fishing) because there wasn't any background provided. Zensee put it much better on screen than I can " You might think of it as the submissive provides the map (the realm of present possibilities) and the Dominant chooses destinations and navigates."

It simply appeared to Me by the way she posted that she was trying to navigate the course.

And as I read My post over again, before someone gets froggy, I should point out that I value very much a collection of Dom/mes communicating with Each Other. And feel that both I/individuals and relationships can grow into something greater than when otherwise isolated. This looked like a relationship that could benefit from just such a interaction.

My Regards,

Gideon

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/15/2005 4:56:08 PM   
sub4hire


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Gideon,
My response was not directed at you. It was just the last response there was. I've been reading this thread for a few days now. Everyone seems to be jumping on the same bandwagon. She is a sub..and topping from the bottom.
Now, I don't know if that is the case or not. What I do know is I'm not assuming. She has made a statement or two to lead me to believe there is more to it than we originally were told.
Which is why I commented the way I did. It was not you. It was many who did the same.

(in reply to Gideon147)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/15/2005 11:18:29 PM   
Master4GirlSlave


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Joined: 12/27/2004
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Being a Master who is gentle at heart, I've always looked at 'pushing limits' as something that's only done consensually with the slave's permission, or not done at all. I see the pushing of limits as an expanding or growing process which occurs over time. Your first time driving you don't want to get on the Audobon, but you may wish to oneday drive there, and to do so you need to keep challenging yourself to reach higher goals. That's how I've interpretted 'Pushing Limits'. Hard limits are not something I would think of pushing.

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/17/2005 2:30:57 PM   
Bwana55419


Posts: 22
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
It doesn’t matter if you are a Dom or a Sub, Master or Slave, you deserve to have your feeling taken into consideration. If you are having issues, you need to talk to him about it, express what you need, it doesn’t matter if everyone in the forums thinks you need to keep you mouth shut an tuff it out.

You are a partner to the relationship no one else. As long as you feel you have a valid issue, that is all that matters.

(in reply to Master4GirlSlave)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/17/2005 4:28:36 PM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline
In a proper Master/slave environment the slave HAS NO BOUNDRYS.
They DO have a level of trust in their Master that means there is none.
After anything however that bothers a slave they should indeed talk with their Master and mention their feelings and concerns. Any GOOD Master will accept that as they know the level of commitment that the slave has given to them..
IF this is a Dom/sub arrangement and they crossed a "hardlimit" again talking needs to be done as crossing a hardlimit means the sub can not longer trust that "DOM" to the extent they should.
In any relationship "hardlimits" need to be respected if they are not then the person who is the Dom/Master is NOT respecting their play partner. It is also a sign that there may be more serious issues here that can cause perminent harm to the sub/slave if so then the sub/slave should immediately petition for their release. If not given then do not walk but RUN to your support group/friends.

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to CuteNSassy)
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RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/18/2005 9:57:40 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline
I just tripped across this thread right now. I am that Dom referred to in this thread and I, too, would like to know what limit has been pushed. I guess I can tell you that she never pointed Me to this thread as she has indicated herein. For one, W/we haven't played in a while, because I haven't been up to it. I told her that if I'm no good to Myself, I can't possibly be good to anyone else.

So, I realized My own limits and drew the proverbial line in the sand.

For another, she has been nothing but saucy when W/we were playing. she would defy Me saying she didn't want to do something. she would change the limits daily, deciding this was ok one day, yet not the next. If she decided she did not want to do as she was told, she got sassy with Me or decided she didn't want to play. That, or she would decide at that moment that she was not giving Me control in that arena. Never was her safeword, which W/we both know well, mentioned.

When I went to discipline her for her horrific behaviour, she physically resisted me, as she can outpower Me in physical strength, and said continuously that no, she did not deserve to be disciplined for that. she decided for ME what needed disciplining or what didn't. It was never until the next day when she decided that she had been bad and deserved discipline, at which time she was disciplined thoroughly shall W/we say, but not in anger, rather love. she would then cry and say she was sorry for being so bad.

Every Dom is going to make errors in judgement. One such error was to involve a friend in O/our disagreement without asking My pet first, hoping that a third party would smooth things out and bring a peaceful resolution to the problem. Well. she was mad at that. That was the first time she was going to leave Me, saying I humiliated her. Well, I guess I can see her point, but I love her in a way that words can't describe. I never intended to harm her in any way.

To Me she can do no wrong. Love can conquer all. I would walk the world for her. I have been there through every single disabling depression, cuddling her while she cried in bed. I have helped her make rapid medication adjustments to ease her suffering. I have been there through the legal battles. But the second I make an error, she wants to head for the door. Finally I convinced her not to go, but that wouldn't last long.

On the night that I was devastated by a damning legal decision, she ran out the door on Me yet again, leaving Me to fend for Myself for the weekend. It was My friends that came to My aid.

The second time W/we had a significant problem, she asked Me to order her prescriptions the night before. The next day, while she was at a meeting, I thought I would kill some time and pick them up for her. W/we had no money, so I thought that $60 in a jar was what she wanted Me to use. A fatal mistake. she lost it, saying she had wanted that money for her kids valentines presents. Well I didn't know. How else were W/we to get the prescriptions? Yes, I should have asked, and not made the assumption. I admit it (and was then required to apologize profusely for it, and pay her back the money to make things right between U/us). That was My next error in judgement, and it cost Me. she had a panic attack at work and disappeared. Hours later she shows up at the door, pushing her way past Me to pick up some things. she said she was going to her mom's for a couple of days and vanished. The next day she calls Me up, saying she's not coming back and if next week she could arrange a time to pick up her stuff. Her nephew, on My request, called her to find out what was wrong. It turns out that she was throwing away the best relationship she had ever had (by her admittance to several friends) because I spent $40. her nephew insisted that she was being foolish and that she return home immediately.

That was fine for a while up until the date I think this was posted. I had wanted sex all day, and kept asking her if W/we could have it (control over sex is one thing I did not ever assert). I asked several times throughout the course of the day, often in jest however. Finally, at the end of the day, W/we were in bed kissing/hugging and being intimate and My hand inevitably wandered. she yielded, and thus I thought that meant everything was good to go.

This happened twice, the other two days ago. The second time it took a little more effort (not much though) to get her legs apart, however nothing was said, I wasn't pushed away, she made no sound, so I thought she was being playful. To Me, an easy conclusion to draw. I looked at her face and could not even deduce a facial expression that would say "You're raping me" or "You're pushing the limits". Never was the safeword used, never was ANY word or ANY action used. The entire session appeared completely normal to Me, even with her getting "involved". It wasn't until yesterday that I found out that she had NOT wanted sex, and she accused Me of raping her both times, bringing back memories that she thought were long forgotten. she claimed that she "gave in" because I kept bugging her. Was I wrong to ask for it numerous times? No. E/everybody does it and it is harmless unless You force Your way onto her, whether by asserting Your Dominance or simply by using physical force despite her insistence that she doesn't appreciate your advances. Well, none of this happened, nor was it ever even indicated. However "giving in" makes the act consensual, regardless of your reasoning for doing so. I'm not a difficult person to get along with. I ask, then, if she said no all the other times, why couldn't she this time? Is it better to give in, point the finger at your Dom and say "It's all HIS fault!!! He raped me!!!!"

Although her story changed a couple of times, this DEVASTATED Me. This is a terrible accusation which bears with it substantial negative consequences. I can't tell Y/you in 100 words or less how I felt. I would do nothing to harm this woman. I love her with everything I have. I would (and did) do anything for her. My whole goal in this relationship was to see her happy. To see her smile. I gave all My mind, body, soul, energy and finances to this relationship. I was determined to be the best Dom and lover I could possibly be.

All I asked for in return was obedience to a few simple guidelines that increased as she became adjusted to the new guidelines, cleaning of the house, doing the laundry and cooking the supper. That's it. she had all the freedom in the world to go anywhere she wanted at any time. she could talk to whoever she wanted. she could do whatever she pleased, unless I asked otherwise. she had her own part time job with the only say over what it was spent on. She had a lot of freedom and independence, which is what she wanted, and I had no problems giving her. It was a mutual understanding. I gave her everything. The Cadillac, the projection TV, the stereo, furniture, tv and stereo in the bedroom, all the appliances, a house as a roof over her head. Legal advice. Everything. I got her doctors, which is a next to impossible task in this city unless you know someone. I gave her knowledge.. Teaching.. Instruction. that she had never had before. I am a very intelligent individual, and I endeavoured to impart that knowledge upon My pet and used it to protect her.

she even started to become somewhat domineering in bed, telling ME which positions to assume, when becoming a switch had never entered into any of O/our conversations. Certainly, being a switch was something I would not tolerate, and as such I would not comply with her requests. It seems that any time I didn't comply with her requests, whether in bed or not, she became pouty or even miserable, complaining about the current state of affairs.

Anyways, as I was saying, the same day, while discussing her pay, she said she wanted to pay a debt to the neighbor, which I figured was drug money, knowing her and the neighbor. I got upset with her because she had already promised to pay the insurance, and that that was more important than the neighbor. I suggested she write her a note that she will pay her out of the next pay. That was My final error in judgement.

she disappeared out the door, coming back to tell me that she had transferred her cheque to her mom's, and that she was moving out the next day. I tried talking to her all day, yet she continually told Me to leave her alone, that nothing would change her mind.

she has tried three times to call today, and I'm almost certain it was her that had our mutual friend call Me several times without leaving a message (highly unusual for her), page Me on MSN once, and try to send Me some nonsensical pic once. Funny that as soon as I got out of the shower, My pet was on the phone, saying "What, so now You don't return the calls?" See, W/we live in a duplex. The neighbor can hear the shower. I might be wrong of course, but if I am it's an incredible coincidence.

I don't know what's going on, but she told Me she needed time. Well. she has it. No need to get pissy because I won't return phone calls. I figure I'll give it three or four days for her to contemplate her currently evolving situation and then return the calls. After all, she's out in the middle of nowhere with no convenience but satellite tv. Not even a car. I figure this will give her plenty of time to contemplate.

This is the whole story surrounding this inquisition, so I ask My audience. I freely admit that I made some errors in judgement by making some assumptions. That's true. However after having read this, which I tell Y/you is true (I never lie, My word is gold), W/who was breaking the boundaries?

Trusting this to be satisfactory,

Sir Kenin

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 2/18/2005 10:12:11 PM >

(in reply to Kinkypupper)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries - 2/18/2005 11:20:08 PM   
Bwana55419


Posts: 22
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
SirKenin, I am willing to accept that what you write is the truth as you perceive it; but if even only a portion of what you say is correct I think you should run like the wind. It just sounds like you two are a horrid match despite how much you both may be in love.

If you decide to try to make it work I wish you the best.

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 20
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