RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries

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MistressJadeMTL -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/3/2005 6:15:58 PM)
It can indeed be very difficult to believe that an alternative life can exists, when one can be so addicted to another person. I myself have gone through similar times in my life; but having good advice and solid friends for support made the transition much easier in the long run. It did sound like CuteNSassy was more of a bottom than a true sub, in that she seemed to only like submissiveness on her own terms, not yours as the Dominant. There can be a time and a place for this in some relationships, but it did not sound like it was acceptable on your end and that perhaps you over-indulged her and she grew used to having her way. For reference, if one has ever read the "9 Levels of Submission", it seems that CuteNSassy is a #3: 3. PSEUDO-SUBMISSIVE PLAY SLAVE. Likes to play at being a slave; likes to feel subservient; may in some cases like to feel one is being "used" to gratify partner's sadism; may even really serve the dominant in some ways, but only on the "slave's" own terms. Dictates the scene to a large degree On a personal note, I have never let my subs talk back to me or be insubordinate... To do so risks having their time privileges with me revoked, as with any possibilities of "reward play". If they do not obey the clearly stated rules of the relationship, then they are ignored until their behavior and attitude has improved. Anything beyond my tolerance would simply mean that they would be dismissed from my service. It's tough love, but they must come into the relationship with clear expectations and understandings of what it will entail. Anyways, I send my positive thoughts to you both, that you will both find your way, and eventually find a prospective partner that will fit more in line with what you both need in your life and relationships. Blessings upon you both,

SirKenin -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/3/2005 6:29:07 PM)
MistressJade, You're a genius. Thank You so much for sharing that post with U/us. I feel incredibly enlightened and relieved. Let Me just say in short that Your post came at exactly the right time. Time of day, headspace and everything. Thank You again. [image]local://upfiles/60308/53392CF0BEFB4FA0ADE2475E53FF1B5A.jpg[/image]

CuteNSassy -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/3/2005 7:11:40 PM)
i just learnt some new stuff here today.... That i try to Top from the bottom, I'm a brat i'm a switcher.... And that i a name for all that.... i am a sub true at heart, and maybe that i like somethings done my way.... But don't you call them boundaries... O/or i can't have them.... Cute[:@]

MzBerlin -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/3/2005 9:06:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuteNSassy i just learnt some new stuff here today.... That i try to Top from the bottom, I'm a brat i'm a switcher.... And that i a name for all that.... i am a sub true at heart, and maybe that i like somethings done my way.... But don't you call them boundaries... O/or i can't have them.... Cute[:@] I've been following this thread since it's inception. I'm confused about your above post. Could you please clarify? Are you saying that you're a true sub at heart but that you like things done your way? Or are you being facetious? B

CuteNSassy -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/4/2005 5:31:00 AM)
i said that sometimes i like things done my way... i guess that what you would call a switer... cute

CuteNSassy -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/4/2005 6:30:12 AM)
i have to say something here, i think E/everyone has the wrong idea about me.... i never said that i new everything about B.D.S.M i have only been in the lifestyle for about 2.5 years, so I guess you can call me a newbie.. Yes i have to say that i am a brat, i am submissive, but i also like to push Sir's button... Just so i can get a spank... Cause god knows i love it... So em i a sub.... or em i just a wanna be... Y/you let me know... As for the discipline one, i asked about, well spanking don't work for me i LOVE them.... So I wounder what other one's people could tell me about, or tell my Sir about... But that all i have to say.... cute[8\|]

ProtagonistLily -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/4/2005 7:40:49 AM)
quote: i have to say something here, i think E/everyone has the wrong idea about me.... i never said that i new everything about B.D.S.M i have only been in the lifestyle for about 2.5 years, so I guess you can call me a newbie.. Yes i have to say that i am a brat, i am submissive, but i also like to push Sir's button... Just so i can get a spank... Cause god knows i love it... So em i a sub.... or em i just a wanna be... Y/you let me know... As for the discipline one, i asked about, well spanking don't work for me i LOVE them.... So I wounder what other one's people could tell me about, or tell my Sir about... But that all i have to say.... cute Ok, wait. Just sit there and hang on a second. Submissives are about pleasing the Dominant, and they are about obedience. A submissive doesn't want to stir the pot up, and get the Dom all pissed off and then skip away saying "Well, I wanna do this so I guess I can call myself a switch and get away with it." To some extent, we, as submissives, have an obligation to respect the Lifestyle. To think that you can come in, decide you are a brat, shrug it off and go on about your business while still maintaining you are a submissive is really disrespectful, in my opinon, to those of us who aren't playing a game here. By identifying as a submissive, by putting that out there, I expect to be held to some general conformity in my real life scene. I am respectful to the other Dominants, regardless of whether I belong to them or not. This is a crazy life...you never really know whose collar you might end up in. To act up and follow 'SAM'my impulses not only drives my stock down, but brings on a negative reputation upon myself. I tend to take great pride in being well mannered, well behaved and able to interact with Dominants in a way that shows respect. Does this mean I'm some wilting, pouty girl waiting around for the Dom/mes to give me my every direction? Not in the least. See, I was confused for a lot of years. I didn't know why in my vanilla relationships men weren't reacting to me and doing the things that I needed. I always said I was looking for an 'old fashioned' guy. My friends would look at me like I was nuts. My fiancee couldn't do what I needed, and I give him a lot of credit for even trying. So, when I finally was able to figure out what was 'wrong' with me, and found my local scene, I was home. I was so damned greatful to be there, among other people who understood where I was coming from and didn't look at me like I had horns growing out of my head. And even after taking a little detour in BDSM and realizing where my heart really lives, I'm still enourmously greatful to be here. So, unfortunately, I can't really relate to your feelings. I guess I can really feel profusely lucky to be here and not have the struggle of trying to fit in, because really, being a good girl is enough for me. Lily

mistoferin -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/4/2005 10:05:11 AM)
quote: To think that you can come in, decide you are a brat, shrug it off and go on about your business while still maintaining you are a submissive is really disrespectful, in my opinon, to those of us who aren't playing a game here. Well said Lily. CuteNSassy, you have asked for the opinion of other's here and that is the reason why I am going to say what I am. I have been following this thread and it is my opinion that you should take some time to figure out what it is that you actually want in this lifestyle. You seem to be a bit confused. Submissives don't act up or push Sir's buttons just to get a spank. That is outright topping from the bottom. I don't think that someone who identifies as a bottom would think that behavior appropriate either. You can not call yourself a switch either on the basis of changing your mind mid stream. Switches state at the beginning of the scene the role they are willing to play....not change up in the middle. Neither submissives nor bottoms allow a man to have sex with them only to cry rape after the fact....people with mental issues do that. Based upon the information that you have posted here I don't believe that I could assume you are submissive, I can't even assume you are even a bottom or a switch. To me it sounds like you are playing games.....and some very serious ones at that. Maybe you should just step back and think this through a bit more.

Voltare -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/4/2005 3:22:57 PM)
Lily, this will be easier if I just take your post piece by piece. The following are just my thoughts, with whatever value you give them. Even though I don't agree with some of your statements, thank you for the thoughtful post. quote: ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily Ok, wait. Just sit there and hang on a second. Submissives are about pleasing the Dominant, and they are about obedience. A submissive doesn't want to stir the pot up, and get the Dom all pissed off and then skip away saying "Well, I wanna do this so I guess I can call myself a switch and get away with it." I don't think being submissive has anything to do with pleasing a Dominant. It has to do with an aspect of personality that gives one a sense of purpose or satisfaction in being helpful, useful, or simply deferring to others who are more dominant. I don't think dominance or submission has anything to do with a desire to stir the pot (or not), or get anyone pissed off. That has to do more with personality traits independent of Ds. I know lots of submissives with smart mouths - not because they relish the punishment, but because they are simply brats in terms of personality. Learning to contain and guide those personalities without 'brainwashing' or serious attitude adjustments, I think, is a finer point of being a dominant. Naturally, there must be rules and boundries to follow - i.e. time and place have a lot to do with what is appropriate and not, but in the end it is simply a personality characteristic at work, not a function of their suitability in the Ds context. quote: ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily To some extent, we, as submissives, have an obligation to respect the Lifestyle. To think that you can come in, decide you are a brat, shrug it off and go on about your business while still maintaining you are a submissive is really disrespectful, in my opinon, to those of us who aren't playing a game here. By identifying as a submissive, by putting that out there, I expect to be held to some general conformity in my real life scene. I am respectful to the other Dominants, regardless of whether I belong to them or not. This is a crazy life...you never really know whose collar you might end up in. To act up and follow 'SAM'my impulses not only drives my stock down, but brings on a negative reputation upon myself. I tend to take great pride in being well mannered, well behaved and able to interact with Dominants in a way that shows respect. Does this mean I'm some wilting, pouty girl waiting around for the Dom/mes to give me my every direction? Not in the least. I catagorically disagree. There is no inherent obligation to any group or perceived group based on one's self-identified role. It ranks up there with saying that 'just because you're a woman, you belong in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant because that's what women do. For the original poster - I stand behind what I said in the first place. It seems that you two are very strong willed people with slightly different needs and goals. I think you both are intelligent and capable of making things work if you wish. Sometimes, focusing on the things that draw you together will do a thousand times more good then consistantly worrying and focusing on the things that you do wrong. If I spent 6 hours a day with my girlfriend talking about the things we don't like, we would be too exhausted to do the things we do like. By making positive (yes, that sounds pretty motivationally disgusting, but it's the damn truth) goals and doing things you both enjoy, you'll both feel a lot less like you are in hell. Stephan

MzBerlin -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/4/2005 3:42:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuteNSassy i have to say something here, i think E/everyone has the wrong idea about me.... i never said that i new everything about B.D.S.M i have only been in the lifestyle for about 2.5 years, so I guess you can call me a newbie.. Yes i have to say that i am a brat, i am submissive, but i also like to push Sir's button... Just so i can get a spank... Cause god knows i love it... So em i a sub.... or em i just a wanna be... Y/you let me know... As for the discipline one, i asked about, well spanking don't work for me i LOVE them.... So I wounder what other one's people could tell me about, or tell my Sir about... But that all i have to say.... cute[8\|] Why are you seeking out negative attention? I don't understand that. Wouldn't it be better to do positive things and get positive attention?? Being "rewarded" with a spanking and not psuedo-punished with one? Also, asking for ideas for punishments seem odd. I would assume that withholding positive reinforcement from you is what would work. At any rate, I don't think anyone can tell you what category you fall into, but I would venture to say that it falls somewhere in the Boderline Personality Range, with your limit pushing and desire for instability. I would suggest that you and your Sir look into it and find you appropriate treatment somewhere for whatever is going on with you. Good luck B

ProtagonistLily -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/4/2005 3:43:33 PM)
I changed my mind. I completely stand by my previous post.

SirKenin -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/4/2005 3:54:03 PM)
Voltare, good post. I am consistently impressed with Your presentations and that says a lot if You learn about Me. I just want to address one thing You mentioned which is particularly worthy of note. I mentioned in another thread that I firmly believe My pet has the ability to be submissive ingrained in her. Indeed I have witnessed same time and time again. I also concur with the statements in this thread that she is quite possibly a level three sub. What I noted, then, was that she has this inate characteristic within that is holding her back from being all she can be. A desire to retain control, or even brattiness. she will go so far as to use physical force to achieve her goals. Most certainly she can also be quite verbal when she wants to be. The above notwithstanding I do love her and I will eagerly stand up in her defense sans contemplation. she has a big heart and she is very sincere and trustworthy. I love her with everything I have. I love the good, the bad and the ugly. she has made a profound impact on My life which I will never forget. It is simply that I feel that W/we can not operate in the capacity of a common law couple at this time. There are a lot of issues that need to be dealt with and I have chosen to walk down a different path. she remains as My pet and I will continue to function in that capacity as opposed to kicking her to the curb. However O/our relationship will have to remain pleutonic, at least for the time being. I don't know what the future holds, only time will show U/us that. If it was meant to be I firmly believe that it will happen. However I am satisfied with the course I have currently chosen and I have also given her a course of action which I expect for her to follow. [image]local://upfiles/60308/810AABA0F9914760B532A97A719AB34A.jpg[/image]

SirKenin -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/4/2005 3:57:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzBerlin I would assume that withholding positive reinforcement from you is what would work. Fascinating dear Watson. Duly noted. quote: I would suggest that you and your Sir look into it and find you appropriate treatment somewhere for whatever is going on with you. Allow Me to be the first to assure You that this is being addressed, and thank You for Your insightful contribution.

Voltare -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/5/2005 3:59:06 PM)
Kenin, Thank you for your kind words. I agree with you, completely, that there is no question that your girl has the capacity to be submissive. I hope my comments have not suggested that I thought otherwise. Many of the issues seem to be (from what both of you have written) not so much related to Ds as they do with other relationship mechanics. I know there are often times an urge to 'fix' the problem immediately, that's how I am myself. The reality is that usually relationships can't be fixed over night, and sometimes can't be fixed at all. I wish you the best in both of your journies. Stephan quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin I just want to address one thing You mentioned which is particularly worthy of note. I mentioned in another thread that I firmly believe My pet has the ability to be submissive ingrained in her. Indeed I have witnessed same time and time again. I also concur with the statements in this thread that she is quite possibly a level three sub. What I noted, then, was that she has this inate characteristic within that is holding her back from being all she can be. A desire to retain control, or even brattiness. she will go so far as to use physical force to achieve her goals. Most certainly she can also be quite verbal when she wants to be. The above notwithstanding I do love her and I will eagerly stand up in her defense sans contemplation. she has a big heart and she is very sincere and trustworthy. I love her with everything I have. I love the good, the bad and the ugly. she has made a profound impact on My life which I will never forget. It is simply that I feel that W/we can not operate in the capacity of a common law couple at this time. There are a lot of issues that need to be dealt with and I have chosen to walk down a different path. she remains as My pet and I will continue to function in that capacity as opposed to kicking her to the curb. However O/our relationship will have to remain pleutonic, at least for the time being. I don't know what the future holds, only time will show U/us that. If it was meant to be I firmly believe that it will happen. However I am satisfied with the course I have currently chosen and I have also given her a course of action which I expect for her to follow. [image]local://upfiles/60308/810AABA0F9914760B532A97A719AB34A.jpg[/image]

FelinePersuasion -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/6/2005 4:06:19 AM)
, she has some serious issues that need to be dealt with. Mental stability is one objective that has yet to be achieved. Well that's the first wrong turn on the map of life, never assume someone who's unstable or has issues will suddenly with lots ofd love be ok, Next time do not get involved with someone you know if unstable. As for asking for sex I get very annoyed with my mate when he asks or jokes about it tons of times a day and I have already said no. but that's more my problem than his since the disinterest in sex is on my end.

MzBerlin -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/6/2005 7:11:11 PM)
You cannot "force" someone to be submissive. Just a random thought that popped into my head as I was re-reading this thread. Submission is given. If you have to "beat" it out of someone (pun intended) then where is the 'gift'?? B

domtimothy46176 -> RE: When a Sir Crosses the Boundaries (3/6/2005 7:53:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzBerlin You cannot "force" someone to be submissive. Just a random thought that popped into my head as I was re-reading this thread. Submission is given. If you have to "beat" it out of someone (pun intended) then where is the 'gift'?? B I think all things being equal, you can indeed force someone to be submissive. Not worth the energy it takes, IMO, but within the realm of the possible. Submission if definitely at it's most valuable when freely, of course. I wouldn't want a submissive who only begrudgingly offered her submission in exchange for the opportunity to serve me. I don't really care for the "submission is a gift" line of thinking. Submission and dominance, within the context of D/s become trade goods. I offer my dominance for my girl's submission, even trade. Of the two, I think dominance is likely the rarer commodity. Plenty of submissive spirits and quite a few slaves out there, all trying to find dominance, many of them complaining that "all the good ones are already taken". Seems to me that if anything should be spoken of with as much reverance as the "gift of submission" it should more rightfully be the "gift" of dominance correctly brought to bear. Timothy

MizSuz -> For Kenin - A link (3/11/2005 9:53:42 AM)
Kenin: Are you familiar with the diagnostic criteria (in the U.S.) for Borderline Personality Disorder? http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/psychology/781/bpd-dsm.htm I was once involved with a woman with this disorder. The chaos was incredible. In this particular person the alternating between idealizing someone (me) and subsequently reviling the same person (me) for any perceived slight caused an unworkable amount of chaos marked by constantly fluctuating boundaries, poor communication, lots of blame and lack of personal responsibility and excessive neediness; none of which seemed to make any sense from one moment to the next. It wasn't until I read the diagnostic criteria and realized I was in a friendship with someone who's standard was "I hate you - don't leave me" that things became easier to understand. Understanding helped me make good decisions for myself. I hope you find this link of value.

SirKenin -> RE: For Kenin - A link (3/11/2005 1:31:31 PM)
Very fascinating read. I am familiar with the disorder, but a refresher course never hurt anyone. Certainly there are characteristics there I recognize. Enough to make a diagnosis though? I'm not sure about that. I am aware of the other issues too, which I will not get into here, and combined they made a complicated mess. Oh well. W/we will see what the future holds.

MizSuz -> RE: For Kenin - A link (3/11/2005 3:15:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Very fascinating read. I am familiar with the disorder, but a refresher course never hurt anyone. Certainly there are characteristics there I recognize. Enough to make a diagnosis though? I'm not sure about that. I am aware of the other issues too, which I will not get into here, and combined they made a complicated mess. Oh well. W/we will see what the future holds. I'm certainly not offering a diagnosis. Far from it. While reading of some of the specifics made available on this board I was reminded of that disorder and the people in my life who struggle with and/or manage it. I was reminded of my own experiences with some people and of the time that I reread about it and it made the confusion in my own life much clearer; sort of an epiphany in an otherwise dark time. So I shared. It's kewl with me if it doesn't sing to you. [:)]

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