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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 3:32:41 PM

popeye1250

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From: New Hampshire
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L.A. no, I never assumed that just because I had a degree that I should have been promoted before anyone who didn't have one but had more experience than me in business management.
The longer you're in the business world the less relevant a degree is anyway.
Look at all the CEO's who have degrees....from 30-40 years ago!
I just seem to sense that younger people out of college and university have a sense of entitlement to being hired and promoted over people who don't have degrees but do have experience.
Boy, are they going to be dissapointed.
Wait till they run into the boss' son or daughter!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 21

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 3:36:27 PM

Wildfleurs

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Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Last night I was out in the neighborhood for my nightly walk when I ran into the manager of my bank.
I don't know what it is about me but for some reason people just want to tell me their problems like I'm their "father confessor" or something.
Well she tells me that she promoted this lady that I know at the bank to management.
I tell her that that's a good thing and that the lady deserves it and that I always liked her and found her very helpfull and knowledgable whenever I conducted my business there.
This promotion will put this lady on the path to "upper management" and she'll get her own branch of one of the banks local offices.
"Great, good for her" I say.
So then, she tells me about another lady at the bank who I also know who felt that she should have gotten the promotion because she had a degree and the other lady who got the promotion didn't.
They both had about the same amount of time there, about 4 years I think she said.
Turns out that when this lady found out that the other lady without a degree got promoted into management she stormed into the managers office and made a big fuss about it and was yelling at the manager for promoting the other lady without a degree over her!
(Evidently they don't teach "manners" in colleges and universities these days.)
So, after hearing all this I told the manager lady; "Gee, it looks like you chose the right person for the job!"
Evidently this bank promotes from within. (It's a large regional bank)
My question is why should someone who has a degree feel that they are more "entitled" to a promotion than someone who doesn't?
The person here with the degree acted totally childish and also very *rudely* during this whole situation.
The manager felt, and rightly so that the other woman was better qualified to be kicked up into management even though she didn't have a degree.
Your thoughts please.

I do think its strange that you were privvy to information that I think should remain confidential (in terms of promotions and such).

However I think that a degree from a *good school* is extremely valuable in terms of both the skills set and knowledge that you learn and I entirely understand why some jobs (particularly in my sector) require either a BA or a BA and advanced degree.

C~

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(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 22

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 3:38:28 PM

untamedshysub

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I have a degree but I am going to be a forensic accountant. Was funny I spent the whole two years I was earning my Masters apologizing for it but when I pass the cpa exam I can live and work anywhere I desire in the country.

Promotions should not be based on how long someone has worked for a company they may know the company inside out but not have the people skills or business savvy to move them to the next level. Gone are the days of company loyalty the average stay at a job is five years. and people just move on for what ever reason. The person who told you all that inside information needed to dump her unhappiness on someone and you were a good choice. Since there is only the mangers side of the story its diffiuclt to tell what really happened. There are three sides to every story the mangaer , the employee and the truth.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 23

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 3:41:25 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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Wildfluers, what field are you in?
And have you ever heard of "The Boss' Son Syndrome?"

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 24

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 6:07:50 PM

ownedgirlie

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I have been limited in my career advancement because of a lack of a degree, even though I can run circles around most of the degreed people I work with. Such is the way of the world. What am I doing about it? I went back to school at the age of 40 to get my degree. I am enjoying it immensely, even though the added work is kicking my ass these days. My mind is expanding. I am becoming exposed to concepts and ideas previously foreign to me. I am finding such new knowledge is benefiting me not just in work, but in my life in general. In fact, much of what I am learning I am applying in my every day thought processes. I'm taking the slow path, but in my case it is better than no path.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 25

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 6:26:55 PM

JohnSteed1967

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From: Columbia SC
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Well yes I think I am "Entitled" atleast to some extent. I have 2.95 degrees and my BS degree is from a Liberal Arts university. It is NOT from some college that wants to be or tries to be Liberal Arts, nor is it from Devry or some fly by night istitution that you pay them a couple of hundred dollars too and they say now you have a degree.

I worked for it, I faced deadline, worked all night, poured my heart, soul, and tears into each and every one of them.

Because you happen to be "The Boss's son" or "the Boss's Lover" honestly shouldn't get you what I've worked for.

I live in a college town and I see where mommy and daddy gave junior a big sports car and sent him off to college, (Which is nothing more than fucking and getting drunk with his frat buddies) and then goes home to take over the family business, every day.

SO....If I worked my ass off for ungrateful professors, who are jaded because they never did anything in their life but teach college. and I never got a sports car, or the money to pay for a frat. took out a loan that I cannot repay. And my parents are now living in a state run nursing home because I can't afford any better. You will just have to forgive me for not throwing my arms around someone with out a college degree that sucked up to the boss!

There is a guy in my job, that used to work "In the Service Industry" that sucked up to the boss and got a supervisor job, then he sucked up to the big boss and got a job over his supervisor. Didn't have anywhere near any qualification, except for one he can kiss ass

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 26

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 7:23:15 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

Because you happen to be "The Boss's son" or "the Boss's Lover" honestly shouldn't get you what I've worked for.

I live in a college town and I see where mommy and daddy gave junior a big sports car and sent him off to college, (Which is nothing more than fucking and getting drunk with his frat buddies) and then goes home to take over the family business, every day.

SO....If I worked my ass off for ungrateful professors, who are jaded because they never did anything in their life but teach college. and I never got a sports car, or the money to pay for a frat. took out a loan that I cannot repay. And my parents are now living in a state run nursing home because I can't afford any better. You will just have to forgive me for not throwing my arms around someone with out a college degree that sucked up to the boss!

You have kind of a chip on your shoulder there it seems, unless you're just venting some lighthearted frustration here. I think college professors went to college too, no?

Or are people "less than's" unless they have more prestigious jobs...? Just wondering...

Personally if I owned my own business (which I don't) and I wanted to hand it over to my child (which I don't have), that would pretty much be my perogative. It's my business after all. I worked hard to create it. I am impressed you got your degree and all, but that did not entitle you to have my business. Life doesn't really work that way.

I see ass kissers every day. I see idiots get promoted all the time. But I can not sit around bemoaning the fact that life is unfair. I work hard AND play the game. I am back in school and I am getting promoted...because I work my ass off.

(in reply to JohnSteed1967)

Post #: 27

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 8:24:24 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

My question is why should someone who has a degree feel that they are more "entitled" to a promotion than someone who doesn't?

Entitled, no, but as someone with a degree, if I was passed up for a promotion I would be looking for a new job and when I found a better job with more chance to go some place I would take it. This would be a signal to me that I needed to get a new gig

quote:

The person here with the degree acted totally childish and also very *rudely* during this whole situation.
The manager felt, and rightly so that the other woman was better qualified to be kicked up into management even though she didn't have a degree

Well I think that it takes years of one's time to get a degree, it is not really an easy thing to do. I have out right been told by employers that they take the people with the degrees from the top of the stack and that the others do not get called for an interview if it is a job with a future. There are other places of employment where they will not promote past a certain level without the degree... so while this lady should have not acted this way, she should realize that odds are in her favor the next place she works will promote those with the degrees and leave the ones without a degree behind. The other lady was lucky that this bank did not have that policy in place...

End of the day, my opinion, the lady that had the degree had a reason to be unhappy about being passed up for promotion, but it really is not going to help her case to throw a tantrum. Sure, people with degrees worked hard to get them, but one cannot control the promotion decisions of one's boss... move on!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 28

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 8:37:52 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
End of the day, my opinion, the lady that had the degree had a reason to be unhappy about being passed up for promotion, but it really is not going to help her case to throw a tantrum. Sure, people with degrees worked hard to get them, but one cannot control the promotion decisions of one's boss... move on!

The part I bolded got me thinking. Just because one has a degree does not mean one has the skills and attitude to be elevated to a higher position. It may give a person first consideration, but it is not a guarantee that someone who may actually be doing the job better won't pass him/her up. There is a lot to be said for professionalism. I certainly would not be promoting any tantrum-throwers into a management position, no matter what their educational level.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 29

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 9:08:31 PM

juliaoceania

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I was not in the room with said tantrum thrower, nor am I her boss. I do know that some people will not give someone a shot just because they have a degree.. so life aint fair.. yadda yadda yadda. Being that none of us were there, and none of us know what sort of political crap was going on there, I have really no opinion, other than to say I would look at the person with a degree for promotion first, and if they were a bad employee I would get them out and get fresh blood in. It does no one any favors to keep someone ambitious hanging around for carrots that never come. I wonder if a man had went in and stood his ground for a promotion if his actions would be described the same way.. we will never know.

The whole entire premise of this thread is uncertain in my mind, third hand gossip at best. For all we know this boss had an axe to grind. In my estimation I have always found that bosses that gossip about employees to be lacking in the ethics department, and I have never done this to people who worked under me.. bad taste at the very least.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 30

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 9:58:33 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
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quote:

I have 2.95 degrees and my BS degree is from a Liberal Arts university

are you seriously bragging about having a 2.95 gpa?? I mean i know its close to a 3.0 .... but still.. if you calculate it out.. that would be a C. You are bragging about a C. A high C, but still a C. A is exceptional.. B is above average.. and C is mediocre.. Something like that...

I dont think a degree "entitles" one to anything. I do think it gives you a leg up in things. Just because it SEEMS like everyone has degrees, doesnt mean they do. Not having a degree puts you "below" what the average population does. 3 types of degrees you can get. A degree from a 2 year - nobody school, a 4 year degree from another nobody school.. or a 4 year degree from "known" school. My Dad has been talking alot about this with me as i've always been one for the "no degree"

He has his secretaries seperate job applicants into 3 catagories. "no degree" "B school degree" and "A school degree" A school being something like Harvard and what not.

When one can "select" the selection population is pretty good. Why take some one who hasnt got a degree over some one whose got on from Harvard?? Its not logical.

What a degree does is show an employer that commitment, hard work, effort, education.. basically it shows more about "who you are" and what you're made of. Anyone can "not" get a degree, but not everyone can get one from MIT or Harvard or whatever. (And not just for fiancial reasons.. but because those who cant tough it out)

P.S. i did take what the nurse suggested for the back problems i get.. being darvocet of all things and i know i'm not explaining this as well as my Dad. Who, when it comes from him.. makes LOADS of sense. i'm trying tho

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 12/2/2006 10:00:57 PM >

(in reply to JohnSteed1967)

Post #: 31

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 10:05:40 PM

LRODANDMASTER

Posts: 161
Joined: 7/13/2005
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I DEFINATELY THINK COMPNIES MAKE A BIG MISTAKE BY HIRING PPL WITH A COLLAGE DERGEE. I MEAN LIKE WHO CARS IF SOMEBUDDY CAN GET THRU HAVRARD? U DO'NT NEED A COLLAGE DEGREE TO HAUL THE TRASH ON MY SHFIT! MILTARY EXPERIANCE IS ALL THAT MADDERS A TRUE VET CAN HANDEL ANY JOB.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 32

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 10:27:18 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LRODANDMASTER

I DEFINATELY THINK COMPNIES MAKE A BIG MISTAKE BY HIRING PPL WITH A COLLAGE DERGEE. I MEAN LIKE WHO CARS IF SOMEBUDDY CAN GET THRU HAVRARD? U DO'NT NEED A COLLAGE DEGREE TO HAUL THE TRASH ON MY SHFIT! MILTARY EXPERIANCE IS ALL THAT MADDERS A TRUE VET CAN HANDEL ANY JOB.

Except, perhaps... in proofreading...

(in reply to LRODANDMASTER)

Post #: 33

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 10:29:34 PM

LTRsubNW

Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LRODANDMASTER

I DEFINATELY THINK COMPNIES MAKE A BIG MISTAKE BY HIRING PPL WITH A COLLAGE DERGEE. I MEAN LIKE WHO CARS IF SOMEBUDDY CAN GET THRU HAVRARD? U DO'NT NEED A COLLAGE DEGREE TO HAUL THE TRASH ON MY SHFIT! MILTARY EXPERIANCE IS ALL THAT MADDERS A TRUE VET CAN HANDEL ANY JOB.

Okay...I think it's actually impossible to spell that horridly, twice in a row.

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to LRODANDMASTER)

Post #: 34

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 10:35:00 PM

LTRsubNW

Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

quote:

I have 2.95 degrees and my BS degree is from a Liberal Arts university

are you seriously bragging about having a 2.95 gpa?? I mean i know its close to a 3.0 .... but still.. if you calculate it out.. that would be a C. You are bragging about a C. A high C, but still a C. A is exceptional.. B is above average.. and C is mediocre.. Something like that...

What a degree does is show an employer that commitment, hard work, effort, education.. basically it shows more about "who you are" and what you're made of. Anyone can "not" get a degree, but not everyone can get one from MIT or Harvard or whatever. (And not just for fiancial reasons.. but because those who cant tough it out)

P.S. i did take what the nurse suggested for the back problems i get.. being darvocet of all things and i know i'm not explaining this as well as my Dad. Who, when it comes from him.. makes LOADS of sense. i'm trying tho

(Sweety, he said "I have 2.95 degrees"...now, I was never all that exceptional in math, but it would appear that he has 2 degrees, and he never quite finished a 3rd. See how that works? Have another Darvocet and relax).

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 35

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 11:17:41 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

Because you happen to be "The Boss's son" or "the Boss's Lover" honestly shouldn't get you what I've worked for.

I live in a college town and I see where mommy and daddy gave junior a big sports car and sent him off to college, (Which is nothing more than fucking and getting drunk with his frat buddies) and then goes home to take over the family business, every day.

SO....If I worked my ass off for ungrateful professors, who are jaded because they never did anything in their life but teach college. and I never got a sports car, or the money to pay for a frat. took out a loan that I cannot repay. And my parents are now living in a state run nursing home because I can't afford any better. You will just have to forgive me for not throwing my arms around someone with out a college degree that sucked up to the boss!

You have kind of a chip on your shoulder there it seems, unless you're just venting some lighthearted frustration here. I think college professors went to college too, no? Or are people "less than's" unless they have more prestigious jobs...? Just wondering...

Personally if I owned my own business (which I don't) and I wanted to hand it over to my child (which I don't have), that would pretty much be my perogative. It's my business after all. I worked hard to create it. I am impressed you got your degree and all, but that did not entitle you to have my business. Life doesn't really work that way.

I see ass kissers every day. I see idiots get promoted all the time. But I can not sit around bemoaning the fact that life is unfair. I work hard AND play the game. I am back in school and I am getting promoted...because I work my ass off.

Ownedgirlie, I've seen that before, "The Boss' Son".
Guess who got the "promotions" and "qualifications" be damned?
And there I was with my B.S. from a "nobody" college and he just barely got out of high school.
But, you're right of course, if the owner of a business wants to leave it to their son or daughter or just give them a highly paid job that's totally within their right to do so.
I'm retired so it really doesn't matter to me anymore but these young kids comming out of colleges and universities need to realize that a degree or two even is no garantee of success in the cut throat world of business that I saw.
Once you get into an organisation it's performance that counts and yes, "ass kissing" is prevalent.
The business that I was in (Insurance) was focused on Sales and most of the best producers didn't have degrees but made $200k per year and that was 20 years ago.
And come promotion time or if they needed people for upper management positions in the Home Office, guess who got them?
That business is pure "numbers" and the better numbers you got the higher you went.
I did alright but I was nowhere near the salesman that those guys were so I didn't stay in that business for only a few years.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 36

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 11:35:43 PM

seeksfemslave

Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
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For a first degree at least, surely what it demonstrates is that you can reproduce other peoples clever solutions to difficult problems. Not sure what an Arts degree confers, the ability to waffle it seems to me.

I believe a person who can think creatively, and has developed that skill for themselves is at least as valuable as a person who is really is no more the institutional educational fodder.

The problem with the self taught is two fold, is getting recognised and many tend to be iconoclasts, which doesnt help .

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 37

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 11:41:04 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Ownedgirlie, I've seen that before, "The Boss' Son".
Guess who got the "promotions" and "qualifications" be damned?
And there I was with my B.S. from a "nobody" college and he just barely got out of high school.
But, you're right of course, if the owner of a business wants to leave it to their son or daughter or just give them a highly paid job that's totally within their right to do so.
I'm retired so it really doesn't matter to me anymore but these young kids comming out of colleges and universities need to realize that a degree or two even is no garantee of success in the cut throat world of business that I saw.
Once you get into an organisation it's performance that counts and yes, "ass kissing" is prevalent.
The business that I was in (Insurance) was focused on Sales and most of the best producers didn't have degrees but made $200k per year and that was 20 years ago.
And come promotion time or if they needed people for upper management positions in the Home Office, guess who got them?
That business is pure "numbers" and the better numbers you got the higher you went.
I did alright but I was nowhere near the salesman that those guys were so I didn't stay in that business for only a few years.

These days, at least in my neck of the world, someone fresh out of school with a shiny new degree isn't guaranteed a thing, other than to make it through a resume scanner/filter and get an interview. That person will likely hop into an entry level position over someone without a degree, but once in, he/she better have the skills, motivation and professionalism to climb the ladder if moving up is the goal. Department heads who are accountable for performance look at performance in others. They say if you want something done, give it to the busiest person, and there is truth to that. We recently hired someone with a degree from Notre Dame. She has a brilliant mind and is extremely talented. She started somewhere between lower and mid rung of the ladder in our department and is proving herself to be quite the performer. Our VP says the young woman is quite skilled but needs to grow up a bit in her maturity before she can move up any further. Others will be promoted above her as a result. In time she will likely go far. But that will come with experience. A degree will help, but her hard work will ultimately move her up.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 38

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/3/2006 1:11:14 AM

timeoutgurlie

Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
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Sense of entitlement in individuals has always irritated me to no end.

Not surprisingly, those who feel most entitled are typically among the very few who feel they are owed anything at all.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 39

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/3/2006 1:53:07 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Last night I was out in the neighborhood for my nightly walk when I ran into the manager of my bank.
I don't know what it is about me but for some reason people just want to tell me their problems like I'm their "father confessor" or something.
Well she tells me that she promoted this lady that I know at the bank to management.
I tell her that that's a good thing and that the lady deserves it and that I always liked her and found her very helpfull and knowledgable whenever I conducted my business there.
This promotion will put this lady on the path to "upper management" and she'll get her own branch of one of the banks local offices.
"Great, good for her" I say.
So then, she tells me about another lady at the bank who I also know who felt that she should have gotten the promotion because she had a degree and the other lady who got the promotion didn't.
They both had about the same amount of time there, about 4 years I think she said.
Turns out that when this lady found out that the other lady without a degree got promoted into management she stormed into the managers office and made a big fuss about it and was yelling at the manager for promoting the other lady without a degree over her!
(Evidently they don't teach "manners" in colleges and universities these days.)
So, after hearing all this I told the manager lady; "Gee, it looks like you chose the right person for the job!"
Evidently this bank promotes from within. (It's a large regional bank)
My question is why should someone who has a degree feel that they are more "entitled" to a promotion than someone who doesn't?
The person here with the degree acted totally childish and also very *rudely* during this whole situation.
The manager felt, and rightly so that the other woman was better qualified to be kicked up into management even though she didn't have a degree.
Your thoughts please.

From personal experience, university teaches you to think for yourself. It is a different type of learning/schooling. Prior to university, my schooling was pretty much learning about experts' thoughts on a subject. At university, you do your own primary research (i.e. source evidence) and form your own conclusions. In my opinion, the real value of universities is in teaching independent thinking.

Also, you have 3 or 4 years with hundreds/thousands of girls all away from home for the first time and basically running wild. If you do a bit of extra work to earn a few quid then you can be out clubbing 5 nights out of 7 (in a club full of 18/19 years old girls).

In conclusion, you have to be happy with that Popeye. For those who didn't experience it then unlucky.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 12/3/2006 1:55:33 AM >

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to popeye1250)

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