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RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 8:54:22 AM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		I'm happy we're both feeling better about it...it was really bothering me a lot.

Was scared too someone may have said something in the topic that was just concretely *icky* but I hadn't seen it.

Glad to know it's all hung on a technicality and nobody, especially myself, was really at fault.

I think we'll have the discussion again at some point, but I'll have to get my courage back first lol

(in reply to darksdesire)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 9:03:34 AM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		FR:   What bothers me is that there is little enough intelligent discourse around here.  When there is a thread that reflects thought and intelligence and has nothing inappropriate, the application of an inflexible rule that erases anything that uses the "unmentionable" word is irritating.   I know the Mods have absolute power.  I know they want to protect CM (and legitimately, themselves) from intrusive Puritanical enforcement, and I know they are reacting to a ridiculous law (although frankly here they are overreacting; there is no remote application of the CDA that would warrant pulling gurlie's thread).  It just frustrates me to see a bit of "smartness" go away.  Ah well.  Its a brisk 22 degrees outside, the sky is bright blue, and all is right with the world.  I'm going for a walk.

E

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 9:06:10 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

FR:   What bothers me is that there is little enough intelligent discourse around here.  When there is a thread that reflects thought and intelligence and has nothing inappropriate, the application of an inflexible rule that erases anything that uses the "unmentionable" word is irritating.   I know the Mods have absolute power.  I know they want to protect CM (and legitimately, themselves) from intrusive Puritanical enforcement, and I know they are reacting to a ridiculous law (although frankly here they are overreacting; there is no remote application of the CDA that would warrant pulling gurlie's thread).  It just frustrates me to see a bit of "smartness" go away.  Ah well.  Its a brisk 22 degrees outside, the sky is bright blue, and all is right with the world.  I'm going for a walk.

E


I couldn't have said this better...

C~


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 9:19:39 AM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		yeah.  ditto. 

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 9:19:50 AM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		i too missed the thread and am really sorry i did.  However, just a personal rant here.  i am not ashamed of my young men; and i flat refuse to call them 'unmentionables' as if i am.  i happen to be very proud of them and myself for raising them 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year.  No, they will never be unmentionables to me. 

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(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 9:23:50 AM   
katie7


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/16/2006
From: australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

FR:   What bothers me is that there is little enough intelligent discourse around here.  When there is a thread that reflects thought and intelligence and has nothing inappropriate, the application of an inflexible rule that erases anything that uses the "unmentionable" word is irritating.   I know the Mods have absolute power.  I know they want to protect CM (and legitimately, themselves) from intrusive Puritanical enforcement, and I know they are reacting to a ridiculous law (although frankly here they are overreacting; there is no remote application of the CDA that would warrant pulling gurlie's thread).  It just frustrates me to see a bit of "smartness" go away.  Ah well.  Its a brisk 22 degrees outside, the sky is bright blue, and all is right with the world.  I'm going for a walk.

E



right on very well said.... cept for the brisk temp... its 90 here in the land of Oz at 4am



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(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 9:24:40 AM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		angelic - Definitely respect that, don't have any myself, don't even want any (not in a bad way, just trust me on this one lol) and even for myself to term them something like unmentionable or creating another word would feel very awkward.  I'd like to think I can tackle a challenge, I'll regain some courage to attempt it and find some way around the sneaky, sneaky rules of the TOS monster *giggles*

Truly, thanks a bunch for the kind words from so many of you, very appreciated, I found it both fascinating to hear the thoughts of so many as well as touching with the personal stories shared.

We'll do it again in time, and hopefully the interest will be there again as it was last night, certainly will be on my part

Edited:  Just wanted to add I didn't mean it in a snide way to say I understood the 'unmentionables' comment, to Emperor, it doesn't reflect my thinking *your* choice of wording was poor, but reflective of my disappointment that the rule with "wording" ended an otherwise great discussion.

And, because I always type too much, I'll add again that to any moderators who may be reading on, very much understand and appreciate the fact that the rules are enforced not with personal "vendetta" or intent to spoil fun and discussions but because the rules are imposed by outsider eyes with "zero tolerance" stances.

With that, I'll save your eyes even more verbosity

< Message edited by timeoutgurlie -- 12/3/2006 9:28:49 AM >

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 9:29:35 AM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Yes Angelic, i am in total agreement.  i've never liked the term unmentionables, and for the longest time i hadn't understood why posters used it.  Now i get it - because of the ban of the "ch" word.  i don't like it either, but if you refer to them as what they are, the thread will be pulled.  i want to be fair and understand the CM mod's responsibility, yet i still feel frustrated that such a significant part of the lives of many here is a tightly closed subject. 

One could argue that this is a bdsm site and should be reserved for only things related to BDSM.  But the other side to that arguement is that for many of us, D/s is how we live, and it would be helpful to discuss the way in which the other areas of our life fit in, should that be work, or family, or spirituality and religion......

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 10:41:17 AM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darksdesire

Yes Angelic, i am in total agreement.  i've never liked the term unmentionables, and for the longest time i hadn't understood why posters used it.  Now i get it - because of the ban of the "ch" word.  i don't like it either, but if you refer to them as what they are, the thread will be pulled.  i want to be fair and understand the CM mod's responsibility, yet i still feel frustrated that such a significant part of the lives of many here is a tightly closed subject. 

One could argue that this is a bdsm site and should be reserved for only things related to BDSM.  But the other side to that arguement is that for many of us, D/s is how we live, and it would be helpful to discuss the way in which the other areas of our life fit in, should that be work, or family, or spirituality and religion......

The threads weren't pulled simply because the world child was used, they were pulled because the topic centered on children.  A thread isn't going to get pulled because of an offhand reference to your kids but if you start a thread about them, no matter what code words are used to reference them, it will get yanked as soon as we see it. 

I'm sorry that people feel it's necessary to stir the pot by bringing up nonsense like "you know what they say about power corrupting", but the simple fact of the matter is that we live in very uncertain times.  Our forums have frequent visits from IP addresses in the .gov domain and should some governmental department or committee get their knickers in a wad over sites like this or this site in particular, there's only one thing we can be certain of.  The users here aren't going to be the target of their attentions, it'll be the owners and staff they aim at.  It's easy to be cavalier about the issue when it's not your computer hardware, house, livelihood, reputation or freedom that are on the line but we would really rather things didn't get to that point.

We want to be here for a long time, and certain rules are in place to give us the best possible chance of achieving that goal.

Thank you for your understanding,

XI

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This mod goes to eleven.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 12:24:48 PM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Moderator eleven

Thank you very much for that explanation.  That helps a lot.  i do understand the difficult position, and i also agree that protecting CM comes first.  i most certainly haven't viewed pulling the threads as a power trip by any means, and very much hope i didn't communicate such an attitude.  i have the utmost respect for CM and there is clearly an integrity here that isn't found on other sites.  So again, i do apologize if i seemed cavalier, and i appreciate your bringing clairty to the issue.   

< Message edited by darksdesire -- 12/3/2006 12:25:42 PM >

(in reply to ModeratorEleven)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 12:45:42 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I understand why such a thread would be pulled - possible interventions from outside, but in that relation I dont understand why in one thread a poster was allowed to post links to websites offering suicide tips, and that even when complaints about this and requests to have them removed were sent to the Moderators, they were still there.

Quite apart from the daftness of offering such links to someone in a vulnerable position (the OP), if the concern whereby threads are pulled is outside viewers observing the site and perhaps concocting some case against CM by way of its content, then surely those website links qualify for deletion alongside those which are the subject of this thread?

My second thought, when I saw those links, (after, how stupid is that?) was with regard to perhaps some news report which might subsequently emerge, as to how CM was permitting itself to be used as a source of information for suicide. Since media sales rely on hype, I could imagine the headline; "BDSM Site Promotes Suicide" or some such, which would surely endanger CM if not in the same way, but to a similar extent as a thread mentioning those who are not be mentioned?

But having said that, the Moderators and all those who provide this excellent site for us, tread a difficult line between sense and censorship, and as someone in a similar position - with all to lose for getting it wrong in my business, in the end their decision has to stand.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 12:49:35 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		It's very unfortunate, but people, we're getting an ABSOLUTELY FREE site, with free unlimited e-mail, and fair moderation in the forums.  If the mods think a thread needs to be pulled for legal reasons, I think they've more than earned the benefit of the doubt.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 3:17:54 PM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		Have to agree with the LaM man on this one (can I call you that, I know it's only the first time I'm using it but it sounds so cute and sweet, and your avatar is of elephants making the cute & sweet, it seems fitting...how about if I say please? ...a site like this should have some kind of emoticon that begs, it's only right  lol)

Anyhow, free site, under descrimination I'm sure just for the subject matter of any thread, totally understandable.

ModEleven - Personal apollogy, my reply to the mail you sent was rather catty in saying I disagreed, I hadn't thought the details through enough and hopefully you'd skimmed the whole thread here before replying and know I did work through the logic past the stupid initial hurt feelings, concern a terrible mistake had been made by mentions of people sprouts, and then having the *duh* moment finally lift and see the point that it wasn't *this* context being thought of as terrible, it was the fact the topic was focused on the sprouts.  So sorry for being too dense initially to see I was being bitchy out of turn...when it's my turn, I'd like a rose colored invite though, please? *giggles*  Sorry it was all a pain in the ass

LadyEllen - My best guess with those would be it isn't specifically listed in the TOS?  So then the site is free to not need to make sure the content on these forums is to a "disney" standard of sorts, but somewhat reasonable in what's allowed?

I'd have to think on it more to put out how I'd feel about it bottomline, but I'm inclined to think it isn't the most common sense thing I've ever heard to allow that sort of thing in the TOS; yet on the other hand the limit had to be drawn somewhere that other sites weren't being governed by CM and so links would be considered not a part of this site?  Will think on it again later on I'm sure, interesting point to ponder.

Maybe it's just that even the TOS wanted to have a few limits that were up for debate and a little pushing?  Not just all hard limits there, TOS knows how to have some fun *giggles*

Edited: My little angry faced guy was morphed into some stars and a few lines, not sure what happened there, bear with it please lol

< Message edited by timeoutgurlie -- 12/3/2006 3:19:24 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 3:24:27 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		As Mod 11 said - the be all and end all is that none of us are likely to get into any more trouble than having a thread deleted and/or our posts moderated for a while, if we post something really "bad" - but for those who own and operate the site, the consequences could be far more severe and real world. Wherever the buck stops, is where the decision should be made and not one of us, who are after all not paying a cent for what is the best site of its type in the world, really have any right to a say, other than by suggestion, in what is kept/deleted, when its not our ass on the line.
E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 5:45:38 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, everyone calls me Lam.

quote:

ORIGINAL: timeoutgurlie

Have to agree with the LaM man on this one (can I call you that, I know it's only the first time I'm using it but it sounds so cute and sweet, and your avatar is of elephants making the cute & sweet, it seems fitting...how about if I say please? ...a site like this should have some kind of emoticon that begs, it's only right  lol)

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 7:51:10 PM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		LadyEllen - Definitely agree with that on a level of what should ultimately be *done*, that it's up to the TOS for the site and the mods who are here to enforce these rules, I just meant in a broader sense of a personal opinion sort of thing, I had read you wrong I think, I thought you wanted to focus on the personal opinion side of the suicidal linking or things in a similar vein...my bad

LaM - I was aiming for being granted " the LaM man"...now I feel a little insecure about asking and won't "clarify" again incase you were plenty clear the first time and this was your way of telling me "Yeah, Lam alone is just fine"

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 8:14:14 PM   
HollyS


Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ModeratorEleven

The threads weren't pulled simply because the world child was used, they were pulled because the topic centered on children.  A thread isn't going to get pulled because of an offhand reference to your kids but if you start a thread about them, no matter what code words are used to reference them, it will get yanked as soon as we see it. 


I guess I'm still confused by this, since the topic wasn't about centered on children but rather on whether or not D/s people wanted to be parents.  It's an important difference for not running afoul the CDA.

My question to the moderator is whether or not we are allowed to discuss topics related to parenthood within these forums. If so, what are the bounds within which we may discuss?  May we talk about what it is to be a parent, how we came to it, how it affects our lives absent any BDSM discussion and be okay with the thread?  Or is any discussion that has children as a component completly off limits, even if it's completly vanilla? 

Just wondering so my posts keep on the good side of the TOS.

~Holly


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 10:15:46 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Ummm...I guess "the Lam man" is OK; you'd be the first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: timeoutgurlie

LaM - I was aiming for being granted " the LaM man"...now I feel a little insecure about asking and won't "clarify" again incase you were plenty clear the first time and this was your way of telling me "Yeah, Lam alone is just fine"

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/3/2006 10:40:55 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Ummm...I guess "the Lam man" is OK; you'd be the first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: timeoutgurlie

LaM - I was aiming for being granted " the LaM man"...now I feel a little insecure about asking and won't "clarify" again incase you were plenty clear the first time and this was your way of telling me "Yeah, Lam alone is just fine"


LAM Man.  That's kind of cute, actually.  It could be a new trend...heh.

I call my Master "Mr. Master Man" sometimes.  It usually results in an eye roll though...

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Just a Thank You to the Women of the Forums - 12/4/2006 2:28:06 PM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		Holly - Good question, one I'm wondering myself, because I'm very, very interested in bringing the discussion back, but obviously unsure as to how to go about it so that it will be compliant with the TOS. At this time, it feels like there isn't a proper way, but hopefully my critical thinking skills will be applied well enough to this one and find a way

The LaM Man - Thanks for obliging, much appreciated

owned - Lol at starting a new trend...and, you know, I'm pretty sure there's a chance even the LaM Man's giving it a bit of an eyeroll, might just be something that comes with the territory  

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 40
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