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Sub Space - 12/3/2006 5:13:43 AM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		I am not new to the lifestyle but have discovered that my former Dom did not teach me much past sub 101. I have enjoyed learning new things here on the boards, in private discussion, and from my Sir.

In talking this morning, Sir reminded me that sexuality is far more than the physical - enjoy the physical, he said, but let the physicality be tied to feelings of servitude and what it means to submit. He said to let it get me to sub space.

Now ... I have been emotionally close to other (vanilla) partners after sex, and I am supposing this is similar to sub space. However, I have never found my sub space and wonder what more it could be. (My relationship with my Sir is not physical at this time.)

Was it difficult for you to find your sub space, and how did you know it was sub space rather than (to coin and twist LA's phrase) vanilla fuzzies? Do you remember the first time you felt yourself in sub space?

< Message edited by MmakeMme -- 12/3/2006 5:14:02 AM >

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama
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RE: Sub Space - 12/3/2006 5:45:47 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I do not consider that to be sub space at all.  To me sub space is a state of mind brought about by the chemicals the body releases during BDSM play.  It is akin to the runners high and is the minds reaction to physical stimulus.  It lasts about 15 - 20 minutes after play while the body absorbs and processes all the chemicals that were released.  To me it feels like an intoxication without the nasty hangover effects.  It is fun to get there and enjoy the ride.

What you have described is something I would consider as head space, or where my head is at as a result of my thoughts and feelings at the moment.  It is a direct result of my mood and something that I have significant control over.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/3/2006 6:14:59 AM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		Never heard of the term until this site, and never had anyone to talk to about it, assumed it was the same euphoric feeling anyone feels after great sex, or even just great moments of sincere passion even if they were more of a romantic/connectivity vibe than a strictly sexual pleasure, a deep, emotion filled conversation can give me personally the same feelings, it just won't leave me tingling in the vaginal area, that's the only difference.

If that's "subspace", then it has come with time and deep connections to my partner.  And if those feelings are subspace, then vanillas are sharing the feeling but just not referring to it with the same words.

*shrugs*

Doesn't seem like the kind of thing with an absolute definition or 12 step program to achieving, much like love, it's something personal and unique to the individual I'd venture to guess.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/3/2006 6:26:09 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme
...Was it difficult for you to find your sub space, and how did you know it was sub space rather than (to coin and twist LA's phrase) vanilla fuzzies? Do you remember the first time you felt yourself in sub space?...


it has been this slave's experience that it is an altered state of conciousness, ~a trance state, like one achieved through meditation~ that can occur, with the only effort required being complete and utter letting GO during a scene with Master.

so, if we are defining subspace as that trance state achieved ONLY through some sort of BDSM means, this slave first experienced it at age 37. however, the fact that this slave had achieved that same trance state, sans the sexual euphoria, frequently through other means since the age of 17 might have made it easier to do at 37. all that changed was the focal point(cognitive object) and the sexual energy experienced.

excerpt from an interesting read:

quote:

"So what is my theoretical paradigm for trance? Basically I claim that the necessary and sufficient condition for a trance to occur is whenever there is a sustained cognitive object loop of sufficient length of time to cause dissociation. A cognitive object is an abstract way to denote a thought, any thought, whether it is a word, and idea, a feeling, a vision. When a set of cognitive objects repeat often enough, you will go into a trance."A Gentle Introduction to Trance Theory
Dennis R. Wier, Director, The Trance Institute, Bruetten, Switzerland http://www.trance.edu/intro.htm


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RE: Sub Space - 12/3/2006 8:46:34 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme
Was it difficult for you to find your sub space,

I wasn't looking for it, but it wasn't difficult.  It's not something I experience very frequently.
quote:


and how did you know it was sub space rather than (to coin and twist LA's phrase) vanilla fuzzies?

I've experienced alternate states of consciousness before, this is just another one of them.  There's also not just one "sub space" for one person- one person can experience multiple varieties of what they call "sub space."

quote:

Do you remember the first time you felt yourself in sub space?

No, but I remember the first time it really took me down hard and deep.

Please don't sweat it- as much press as "sub space" gets, it is NOT the be all and end all of submission or play. LOTS of subs never experience it, lots of them only experience it rarely.  You should never feel down on yourself just because you haven't reached some woo-woo alternate state of cosnciousness from play.

If you've got a solid secure relationship, you're already miles ahead of most of the people playing.


http://www.collarchat.com/m_622770/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#622894
Crazy First Subspace

http://www.collarchat.com/m_549476/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#549596
blocked out scene or inaccurate memory?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_521560/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#521654
A question about "subspace"

http://www.collarchat.com/m_514967/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#515095
Different views of subspace and subdrop

http://www.collarchat.com/m_238766/mpage_2/key_subspace/tm.htm#280229
How quick do you go into subspace?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_440912/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#441045
Was this subspace?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_537506/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#537508
Subspace ??

What is SUBSPACE?

Subspace...?

Subspace

Subspace can you control it?

Subspace?

Not talking subspace...or sub drop...so what is it?

Subspace or just fantasy land?

Subspace safe?

Subspace or subdrop anyone?

Subspace? (2)

A thing called subspace

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/3/2006 9:56:47 AM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		It sounds like he is saying you can experience subspace through submission and servitute.  i agree with this.  Everyone's experience is different, and subspace is so subjective, that you eventually have to define it for yourself.  i have two difference experiences of what i define as subspace.  The first is that floaty, relaxed, dreamy feeling i get after good play.

The other "subspace" though, is the feeling i get when i've submitted fully...when i get into the total joy of service and submission, and feel all my boundaries dropping away.  In this space, i feel utterly euphoric, complete, high.  i feel as though i've entered a state of ecstacy that is nearly drug like, but that is induced only by complete power exchange in that moment.  When i'm in that place, i am at my most vulnerable.  i've no judgement, and i'm at his mercy, and the desire to serve him and do whatever it is i'm told is so powerful that i am not sure i could resist any request.  i much prefer this version of "subspace", as we are much more D/s oriented than SM oriented.  So, subspace doesn't require physical play for me. 

This in no way compares to vanilla warm fuzzies for me.  Anyway, i guess we stumble upon our own experience of subspace, and know it when it hits....kind of like an orgasm.  It's hard to describe one, but you know it when you have one. 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/3/2006 9:59:15 AM   
Toystory


Posts: 15
Joined: 11/19/2006
Status: offline 		         One time i was so far out  in subspace i fell completely out of my wheelchair. i just remember slowly going foreward until my head hit the floor. This was in a fetish club in front of about a hundred people......... i laughed so hard one person thought i was having a seizure, and others thought it was part of the play wW/e were doing. It was great!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/3/2006 10:02:26 AM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Oh.  and i agree with LA.  Don't sweat it.  i've agonized over not being able to have orgasms through g - spot stimulation, over not being able to squirt, over being terrible at anal...it is tempting to compare your experiences with others and feel as though you fall short somehow.  i do it all the time and have to remind myself that in the long run it doesn't matter.

Still....i can dream.  

< Message edited by darksdesire -- 12/3/2006 10:03:25 AM >

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/3/2006 11:11:41 AM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		The problem, to this point, has been me fighting myself, fighting my submission (although if you asked me prior to ... a couple days ago, I would have told you that I certainly did NOT! ~chuckle~) I meditate on a regular basis, have for years, and can get close to that altered reality. ~typing 100 times "I must submit completely. I must submit completely. I must submit completely." Thanks for all your answers. ~smiling~ You're all wonderful.

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

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RE: Sub Space - 12/3/2006 11:38:45 AM   
pinkkeith


Posts: 605
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: Illinois
Status: offline 		I see sub space being more or less the same as runners' high.

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/3/2006 12:15:45 PM   
darksdesire


Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		oh.  yes.  As naturally submissive as i am, i still fight it sometimes.  Probably 1/2 the time actually.  Maybe even more than that.  But oh, when i let go..... 

(in reply to pinkkeith)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/4/2006 5:28:06 AM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		I had only ever got subspace once and to be honest it scared me. The feeling was amazing. I just lost all thought and felt wonderful but I lost alot of time. I was told I was pretty much just uttering words and mumbleing for about an hour.

Then I crashed for about nine hours. Like LA said its different for everyone. I just hope its not the same as next time I play.

(in reply to darksdesire)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/4/2006 5:54:12 AM   
cherylnchains


Posts: 25
Joined: 9/1/2005
Status: offline 		i used to think that subspace was that chemical reaction such as a runners high as well. A slow raise in endorphine and adrenaline till the point a drunkeness would occur.  Now that i am reading the threads on this, i have been thinking of all the times in subspace. As a pain slut, i play hard, and found many different levels of this space including ones of memory blockage.
  What has occured to me  at the moment, are the times i did not reach that all euphoric high, which usually happens when i play with someone for the very first time.  There has to be more involved i think then just the endorphin and adrenaline rush,  a connection to the one we play with.  Yet then i think of the time i was off at a work site, painting. i was alone, painting being a pretty mindless task, my mind wandered off to a really great scene i had recently experienced... long story short.. i came too jerking.. wet spot in the painters pants and in subspace...time was lost, mind was gone.. and when i looked around... i had painted the whole room! lol...humiliated myself i think!
  The mind is a wonderful thing, the subspace i think is a cause and effect  of chain reactions, connections to desires and heart along with the chemical reaction. Maybe this is why some of us have them , some don't, and each of us has different experiences?  At any rate.. just one more great thing about this way of life that  is for sure!!!

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/4/2006 9:57:33 AM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		The first time i reached subspace it scared me i did not know what was going on but now i just relax and enjoy the ride.  Like others said it is an altered state of mind.

Matt's littleone.

(in reply to cherylnchains)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/4/2006 10:05:59 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		i've never experienced subspace and honestly don't have a crystal clear understanding of precisely what it entails. but, like multiple orgasms, it's one of those things where i've just accepted, "it's not gonna be me". everyone isn't wired to experience everything. some people aren't susceptible to hypnosis...subspace is just another one of those things.

(in reply to littleone35)
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RE: Sub Space - 12/4/2006 11:26:28 AM   
impetuousone


Posts: 31
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		I have escaped to sub space during heavy scenes when the intensity of the pain is such I am not sure I can endure.  Finding a focal point, be it the music or a visual or even listening intently to the sounds of scenes around me and I can get there....Music is my best mode of transportation to sub space.  Give me a good sadist, some good music and the combination of adrenaline and endorphins, and I am g-o-n-e!  Can sub space be reached without pain?  Oh yes...anyone read the forum on "feeling submissive?"  For me that is "sub space" as well.

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RE: Sub Space - 12/4/2006 12:29:20 PM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		Hmm so is subspace really a good thing or is it a point where the body says it has had enough and blocks out the pain?

There is no denying it is a chemical release, it is a natural process but in most cases under extreem conditions the body goes into self defense mode. Could that be what subspace really is?

To many it is total enjoyment, but could it really be the same as the high from drugs? I do not think there has been any real scientific studies on this and because there has not been does not make it right but on the same hand does not make it wrong.

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RE: Sub Space - 12/4/2006 4:13:26 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		It's a natural high, like from running. Is it wrong to run a 10K just because you enjoy it?

And you don't always get there from pain, I get there from sensory deprivation.

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RE: Sub Space - 12/4/2006 4:49:01 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		Today, a friend described sub space as she understood and experienced it. She said it was a pulling apart of her body (mind) and her spirit. Her body was still in place and she was still aware of it, but her spirit was away. She likened it to a deeply meditative trance and said that she got there by intensity of feeling, physical or emotional.

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

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RE: Sub Space - 12/4/2006 6:11:24 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

Today, a friend described sub space as she understood and experienced it. She said it was a pulling apart of her body (mind) and her spirit. Her body was still in place and she was still aware of it, but her spirit was away. She likened it to a deeply meditative trance and said that she got there by intensity of feeling, physical or emotional.

Yes, many people describe out of body experiences as their form of subspace, and it is an altered state of consciousness.

I will also note (as I did in the other threads) that subspace is NOT always happy- subspace can go bad, it can become too much, it can get dark. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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