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a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/15/2005 10:49:51 PM   
summerrose


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Status: offline 		i went to a work's end of the year party recently, and was talked into trying to be hypnotized since i swore i couldn't be. after a few minutes with the group (there were about 10 of us), i felt myself slip under and into the depths of hypnosis. now that i think back on it, it was one of the most elating and exhilerating experiences i've ever experienced....but it also brought along a few thoughts.....

do you think there is a fine line of similarity with hypnosis and submission? they both require a consent to do, one needs to want to have the desire to do either. i guess, my point is that once i was under hypnosis of this man, i did everything i was told, without hesitation, and without second thought.

i've heard it said that a trained sub/slave when trained well to her Master will also react without second thought, and without hesitation. obviously there are limits to both....neither would ask someone to kill someone or beat the living tar out of someone or anything....but just as a general thing.

however, i have to say, that if true slavery and servitude....putting one's needs before my own and learning to obey His commands and every whim He desires....if that would bring me the same joy and excitement as this did, then i indeed look forward soooooooo much to serving with all my heart and soul....

what are Y/your thoughts??
just something to ponder.

thanks-
summerrose

< Message edited by summerrose -- 2/15/2005 10:50:34 PM >
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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/15/2005 11:45:32 PM   
NATI


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quote:

do you think there is a fine line of similarity with hypnosis and submission? they both require a consent to do, one needs to want to have the desire to do either. i guess, my point is that once i was under hypnosis of this man, i did everything i was told, without hesitation, and without second thought.


The very deep trance brought on with hypnosis is very similar to that thing we call 'sub-space' - and I would argue that sub space is actually a form of trance. There is a very powerful similarity. Obviously, It depends on 'how' the hynosis is used and for what end. But think about it. You go to your dentist's office and you are offered hypnosis as a means of controlling pain (and fear). You are brought down into that trance and the suggestion is given that you will feel neither pain nor fear, and when you are brought back out of it - you will feel like you have had a very refreshing and restful nap. You let go and relax and the dentist does his/her thing and you wake up with a clean mouth a new cap, and you're refreshed, energetic - wow. It's all suggestion, but it works SURPRISINGLY well in that state. It works equally well in BDSM. I think what I really enjoy the most out of this is the level and degree of trust this evokes.


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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/15/2005 11:45:53 PM   
GrandpaLash


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Status: offline 		Well unless you can be hypnotised by the written word, you're never going to find out online LOL.

Grandpa Lash

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/16/2005 12:48:07 AM   
MzBerlin


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Status: offline 		Lash- Is there really a need for that? It's her first post.

Summerrose-
I would def. say that there are similarities. I would look for a book on the subject.
Perhaps there are some other threads that proudsub can pull? I know that there have been lengthy discussions on sub-space previously.
Good luck and welcome to collarme!!
As Always
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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/16/2005 1:23:13 AM   
Salome


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Status: offline 		Hmmm....actually this is an interesting supposition. Yes, both do require consent and a true desire to do as you are told by those that you give your personal power over to. I also think that we all search for our own version of Svenghali and personally a little Kreskin thrown in would be helpful in having a lover/partner that truly knows my mind. To distinguish the differences between the two; Hypnosis is a temporary thing or event - even post hypnotic suggestions are a temporary state without re-enforcement. Hypnosis appeals to the subconscious. Submission is a mindset and/or the act of submitting to commands of one that has dominion over you is a choice. You do not do them mechanically, like breathing or blinking your eyes....you CHOOSE to do things that please the one you adore. You make conscious decisions to act upon these desires. There may be repetitive chores that you get in the habit of doing for your Master but they are always conscious desicions not subconscious suggestions.

Great thread topic!


Laura





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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/16/2005 4:46:37 AM   
willing2serve


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quote:

do you think there is a fine line of similarity with hypnosis and submission?


Interesting post! Thank you for sharing this intriguing topic.....

Never really paralleled the two, but I do see the simuliarities and the action and reaction to both...

Again, thank you for this additional insight....

Respectfully,
Willing2serve1

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/16/2005 7:16:54 AM   
sub4hire


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Status: offline 		I'd have to disagree with everyone. Knowing a little something about hypnosis. No there is no similarity.
You won't do anything you consider immoral under hypnosis. So, yes you did what you were told to do, but that wasn't anything you found objectionable to begin with.
If it had been, why then you would not have done so. All hypnosis does is let down our guards.
Both definately need a desire to do.
If you start talking to pro hypnotists. Many will tell you that many people cannot by hypnotised at all. Why? Well offhand I cannot remember at the moment. However I can ask a good friend of mine who is a hypnotist.
I'm one of those people. I at times have desperately desired to be as well. It isn't something I resist yet it cannot be done.
Yet I do submit to my dominant on an hourly basis.

So, what do the two have in common other than little?

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/16/2005 8:40:00 AM   
NATI


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quote:

If you start talking to pro hypnotists. Many will tell you that many people cannot by hypnotised at all. Why? Well offhand I cannot remember at the moment. However I can ask a good friend of mine who is a hypnotist.


The similarity is the trance state that can be achieved either with inducing sub-space or hypnosis. Some people cannot be hypnotised because they are a) resistant to letting go and b) resistant to suggestion.

I doubt that anyone would do anything immoral with or without the trance induction. The suggestions that I plant have to be 'agreeable' If not - my subject would awaken from the trance.


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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/16/2005 9:21:30 AM   
Cyis75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NATI

quote:

If you start talking to pro hypnotists. Many will tell you that many people cannot by hypnotised at all. Why? Well offhand I cannot remember at the moment. However I can ask a good friend of mine who is a hypnotist.


The similarity is the trance state that can be achieved either with inducing sub-space or hypnosis. Some people cannot be hypnotised because they are a) resistant to letting go and b) resistant to suggestion.

I doubt that anyone would do anything immoral with or without the trance induction. The suggestions that I plant have to be 'agreeable' If not - my subject would awaken from the trance.


I would have to agree with this asssessment. While under hypnosis you still won't do anything you would find morally wrong. Similarly, even in submission there are things that you still would not due. Granted the line of what one person would or would not do depends a great deal on the relationship between the people involved. Likewise you could argue that if they would do it under the guise of submission they would probably also do it under hypnosis if the one doing the hypnosis was trusted on the same level.

Sub-space and hypnosis as has been stated are both trance-like states of mind. While hypnosis involves suggestion, there are those that are not as receptive to suggestion as others. I've also seen those that are not as receptive to submission and find it hard to get into sub-space. In all fairness there hasn't been much study on the similarity or difference of both to come up with more than conjecture. Sounds like a good study for someone working on the doctorate :)

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/16/2005 11:24:55 PM   
summerrose


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quote:

The similarity is the trance state that can be achieved either with inducing sub-space or hypnosis.


this was pretty much what i was implying. As i stated before however....
quote:

obviously there are limits to both....neither would ask someone to kill someone or beat the living tar out of someone or anything....but just as a general thing.


i think it's obvious that one wouldn't react if it was against one's morals, but i was just making a general statement. thank you to all who have replied here, and i'm glad it gave everyone something to think about. i'm thrilled that so many found it such a good thread to post.

as for GrandpaLash...i never said i wasn't going r/l either...i just prefer to research the topic more and get a better understanding of what all i could be getting into....online some people...excuse one for being knowledgeable and taking things slow...

respectfully posted-
summer rose

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/16/2005 11:38:11 PM   
pandoravampire


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Status: offline 		I would have to disagree salome, i think subspace is a altered state of consciousness, much like hypnosis. And exactly like hypnosis, you could not be forced to perform a behaviour that was at odds to your subconsciousness, your ego whilst in subspace. You do still have reason or superego.

Hypnosis can be delivered over the internet, warp my mind is such a sight. Though, it is not recommended to ever be hypnotised without the hypnotist present. Research shows the most powerful tool for inducing a state of hypnosis is that it be done live.

Im not sure of the value of submission were it hypnotically induced, much the same as in another thread here on the use of alcohol whilst playing. But if your submission is there anyhow, it may prove interesting i guess. I dont know, has anyone tried this with their partners?


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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/17/2005 12:42:12 AM   
GrandpaLash


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quote:

ORIGINAL: summerrose

as for GrandpaLash...i never said i wasn't going r/l either...i just prefer to research the topic more and get a better understanding of what all i could be getting into....online some people...excuse one for being knowledgeable and taking things slow...

respectfully posted-
summer rose


Well now summer rose, you surely didn't say that in your OP - but perhaps you might consider your profile, which says it in big bold letters. And careful respondents in forums usually do check out the profile of the posters to get an idea of where they are coming from.

As for your question, yes, I believe you are correct, both are trance states and I know that it helps a lot of subs if you are speaking to them in a sort of hypnotist's calm, unhurried fashion, emphasising the way the process is proceeding. Certainly helps my slave.

Grandpa Lash

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 2/17/2005 11:30:11 AM   
NATI


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quote:

Im not sure of the value of submission were it hypnotically induced, much the same as in another thread here on the use of alcohol whilst playing. But if your submission is there anyhow, it may prove interesting i guess. I dont know, has anyone tried this with their partners?


It is not "like" alcohol because even though the submissive is in a very deep trance, it is not artificially induced and there is no impairment. The dominant needs to be careful in this - just as with anything else. But if - for whatevr reason I felt a need to pull my sub out of it - it's easy enough to wake him or her up.

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 3/15/2005 10:45:31 PM   
summerrose


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Status: offline 		just bumping this up :)

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 3/16/2005 12:50:54 AM   
NATI


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Status: offline 		You're fairly new - but my understanding is that mods get a little touchy when people bump threads. Careful, they may come and spank yah.

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 3/16/2005 3:13:16 AM   
darkinshadows


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Greetings rose, and welcome to the board.

I look forward to reading many more posts from you.

Bumping a post isn't a method liked by the Mods at collarme. It can mean getting a warning and if it hapeens alot, restricting usage. All threads are read regularly by many and will be answered by those that wish.

As for hypnosis, I wouldn't use it personally during a session or at all. And as for the 'fact' that a person under hypnosis wouldn't do something 'morally' wrong on a personal level, I have seen to be an untrue statement. I have seen friends do just that. During a hypnotic state they have consented to things that would not be acceptable to them in everyday life.

Angel has found that not all people are able to be placed under hypnosis as has been stated. But as a general 'rule', everyone submits in some way or another.

I do not see hypnosis in any way same as hypnosis, but I do note similarities.

Peace and Love

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 3/16/2005 8:06:47 AM   
ruffnecksbabygir


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Status: offline 		my former Master was a hypnosis therapist. After many sessions in real life it got to the point where He was able to hypnotize me over the phone and yes, once He did it online.... might not have been as effective as in person, but it did work.

It's a good post, and i agree that subspace is a lot like being under hypnosis in a sense...it's an altered state of mind, a trance like mode one is in. Hypnosis can be very erotic when mixed with BDSM. You won't ever do anything you don't want to do under hypnosis, that's just "t.v. pretend hypnosis" where they make people act like a chicken ... it's not real, hypnosis only relaxes you to a deeper level, not too different from meditation or yoga, just different levels.

Good luck on your journey.

~hugs~
Babygirl






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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 3/16/2005 8:09:26 AM   
NATI


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quote:

As for hypnosis, I wouldn't use it personally during a session or at all. And as for the 'fact' that a person under hypnosis wouldn't do something 'morally' wrong on a personal level, I have seen to be an untrue statement. I have seen friends do just that. During a hypnotic state they have consented to things that would not be acceptable to them in everyday life.


I am curious to know what modality was used to induce the hypnosis (if you know) and what it was your friends consented to that fell outside of the framework of 'moral acceptability'.

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 3/16/2005 8:50:35 AM   
darkinshadows


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I am not sure what you mean by 'modality' (having a thick moment). If You could explain I would endeavour to respond.

The situations were many. From removing clothing, to being made to believe that they had commited an injury to someone(on purpose), to actually threatening death. These are personal experiences of observing people under hypnosis(friends) Morally, removing clothes may not be 'wrong'... but if you knew the person in question, it is something that would(and did) injure her (mentally) greatly.

I have also seen the effects that hypnosis has had on others via televisual documentary mediums. I actually thought it as media frenzy hype, until I saw those occurances(as above) and met a person (through a friend) who had been effected by a hypnosis session( this has been identified by mental health professionals as the route cause).
Now I am in no way saying that hypnosis is wrong. It's just something that I wouldn't contemplate, as Master is not interested. But I do disagree with the statement that people in hypnotic states would not do something' morally wrong', as I have witnessed the opposite.

I do agree that hypnosis is an 'altered state of mind' and that subspace/meditation/yoga or other examples of an altered state of mind. However I view them like food. Ones a fruit, ones a vegetable.... you can eat them both, but they are still different.

If you wish to comment your thoughts, I would be intrigued to hear them.

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RE: a similarity between hypnosis and submission/slavery?? - 3/16/2005 8:51:09 AM   
MidnightWriter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NATI

quote:

As for hypnosis, I wouldn't use it personally during a session or at all. And as for the 'fact' that a person under hypnosis wouldn't do something 'morally' wrong on a personal level, I have seen to be an untrue statement. I have seen friends do just that. During a hypnotic state they have consented to things that would not be acceptable to them in everyday life.

I am curious to know what modality was used to induce the hypnosis (if you know) and what it was your friends consented to that fell outside of the framework of 'moral acceptability'.

I have seen this done, but it takes a devious route.

As an example, Sally would never consent to undress in public. Sally is hypnotized, and convinced that she's alone, at home, getting ready for bed - and Sally sleeps in the nude.

It takes a very deep trance, but it can be done. One should only enter into hypnosis with someone you can trust to be honorable, and whom you can trust to know what they're doing. I use some hypnotic techniques, but I won't use hypnotic trance, largely because I'm not qualified to do so safely.

In reply to the OP, yes - subspace and hypnosis are both altered states, with many similarities - the most obvious being that neither is your usual waking state. There are, however, distinct differences between them.

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